TAHAWK

For generations, I have noted with interest that there is always a minority who think we are in the End Days of Scouting, locally or nationally. I was told in 1959 that allowing Explorers to bring dates to Post "socials" was the BEGINNING OF THE END. (.... like rabbits.") I was told in 1964 that the decisions to go to a "plastic" uniform, abandon the First Class Badge as Scouting's emblem, downplay the Campaign Hat, and allow (although discouraged) chemical stoves were all symptoms of the last stages of rot. ("I mean stoves! STOVES!!!! What are we coming to?") In 1989, I was t

Do "Troop Program Features" seem to you to be pushing an indoor focus? 'Cause most of them were written decades ago and they provide for a a campout as the high-point for the vast majority of months. That is not what we tell them in the two councils I train for. It is rather sad that only "building a fire" rather than starting one is enough to advance. I did get an answer to my latest request that elements the "Patrol Method" be expressly set out. The answer was that my observations would be referred to the appropriate people. In more words, that was the initial, form respon

If you are asking can BSA be stimulated to be more customer-friendly, they have in our council -- rather sharply and suddenly. Since December 31st, the paid guy who was driving units (and staff) away from our council's camp with his authoritarianism and arrogance is out of that job - demoted two grades. His replacement eliminated the long list of "Thou Shall Not's" at camp with simply the Oath and Law. He has been "taking back" most of his predecessor's off-putting administrative positions (such as : "No, you can't have access to your site an hour early, and I don't care what your reaso

"Instead of moaning about this, just go out and get what you need, then put it in their hands and have them do it." The choice is not one or the other. Proper BSA literature would ease the task. "Reality is that no matter how well a manual is written, or how deep the material may be, it still must be LEARNED BY DOING. Meanwhile, share stuff as you can, and develop your own ways to pass the skills along, ways that work for you." Absolutely.

The older Fieldbooks had much more Scoutcraft in them, as has been noted. It is hard to think of a book as a "Fieldwork" when it does not mention fires, rope work, pioneering, axes, knives, or cooking. Over the years, much Scoutcraft has also disappeared from the Handbook. So we know have a situation where all information on use of the axe, which BSA continues to sponsor, is confined, I think, to a single page of the Handbook. The information there presented does not tell a Scout what he needs to know to earn the Tot'n Chip -- required before he is supposed to use an axe.

"What has been happening is the new boys come over as new Scout patrols. They generally want to stay with their buddies that they've been with in Cub Scouts for years. They get assigned a youth Patrol Guide who is usually at least Star. over time, these patrols dwindle down and wind up merged with other patrols. On outings, there are usually ad-hoc patrols because of the limits on how much cooking equipment you can transport (and the Troop own without increadible expendeture)." I was a Scout in a Troop of 120 Scouts years ago. It had no problem running the Patrol Method. As a patrol

I guess it comes down to what "present" means. Absent a less abstract standard, we have decided within "Screaming distance" or "whistle call" is "present."

So nice to have reasoned discourse, Rick.

Rick says: "Maybe we can use EDGE to figure out what's missing from the Patrol Method presentation of Scoutmaster Training." As of mid-January, neither "EDGE" was incorporated in the SM/SA training syllabus, which has many other problems. Beyond that, your comment is equivalent to "Maybe we can use FOS to figure out what's missing." Very "edgy" but hardly logical. And what's wrong with teaching that talk needs to give way to application (Teaching EDGE) or that adults need to step back and let the Boys run things (Leading EDGE)? Still waiting for a statement of your point

What's your point, Rick?

I never took Commissioner's training. Not in 1910 or any other time. The other errors are of the same sort - positions I never held and events I never attended. Also, again, the positions I held, training i took, and events I attended are not listed. SO it's far more than a problem with the software buggering up dates.

The software that B.S.A. wants all councils to use to keep records of the Scouting history of current and former members merely served to destroy my council's records. I got a printout for me and it omits every single actual fact (position, training, event participation) and lists many facts that are all incorrect. For example, it has me taking Commissioner's training in 1910. I'm old, but not that old. (As I told BP, . . . . .) That's two years before B.S.A. arrived in Cleveland and four years before it arrived where I was born.

Rick, I often think we need to define terms because you use them in a unique way. An example is "adult association," which I think of as boys associating with adults who are good role models, but you seem to use as code for adults preventing youth leadership - apparently by simply by being within earshot. "Associations With AdultsBoys learn a great deal by watching how adults conduct themselves. Scout leaders can be positive role models for the members of the troop. In many cases, a Scoutmaster, a merit badge counselor, or one of the troop parents who is willing to listen to boys, encoura

I do not believe that it is expressed in the syllabus that patrols should camp apart. From the courses I saw in 1959, 1984, 1989, 1990, 1992, 1993, 2008, or 2009 it was not made express. It just was how things were arranged. Apparently, example is not enough. I have agreed that not enough emphasis on the meaning of "Patrol Method" is in the training. Much is assumed, with all the attendant risks. We are using "other" training in our council ("Baden Powell Institute") to attempt to correct that problem. I do note that it is now to be taken as a fact, without any evidence whatsoever, th

Wood Badge (and NYLT) currently teach that the proper role of the adult is to, as quickly as possible, be in the background with all actual leadership being by the youth ("Enable") - to be a resource and mentor, not the leader. The problem of adults not understanding their proper role has been present in Scouting from it's beginnings in the U.S. to the present date. Policy at first encouraged active adult program leadership, with youth acting an "noncoms" to the adult's "officer" role. However, B.S.A. publications from at least 1930 to the recent past devote considerable space to repeate

"Not sure how I feel about the beads, probably they are a symbol of exclusion and elitism that is contrary to scouting's aims." The beads were the sign of membership in a pretty exclusive club at one time. That was when it was by invitation only and the least senior learner might haven ten years as a SM. It got considerably less exclusive in its second version starting in 1972. Now that the goal is to have all active adults in Scouting's traditional programs take it as a matter of course as ASAP, it is far from exclusive. It is an expectation for active Scouters. If you g

"Trev: Remember when Walika would only let us have 1 flap every 3 years or so, and one necker patch per lifetime?" San Gorgonio (298) was the name on the neckerchief patch. You got one when you passed the ordeal and that was it. If you wanted another neckerchief patch you had to get it from another member who, for some reason, didn't want it. Today, no one knows what they are. Flaps were readily available.

BP, Bill, and every icon of scouting you could mention, all argued for citizenship and obedience. There is not a splinter of evidence in any other direction and mountains of evidence for scouting being intended as a citizenship training program. It is . . . . different . . . . to argue otherwise. Also clearly wrong, I think.

Congress has so little to do with the current state of scouting or the BSA that it is a waste of bandwidth to post about it. 1916 scouting was, of course, mostly adult planned and adult led. Not so good for our "scoutcrafting" analogy. There was a lot of that going around in the 1930's or Bill would not have spent so much space arguing and teaching against it. It was there in 1950's, and it's still a curse today. The "teacher/classroom" or "parent/child" models are all too common in this 103rd year of U.S. scouting. As for what intrigues kids today, there are facts that suggest

The "charter" does not "require."

Other than for trademark purposes, "Scouting" should not be confused with B.S.A. "Scouting" was here in 1908. There were ninety-nine "scout troops" in Cleveland before B.S.A. appeared. "Scouting" is almost entirely done by volunteers. They don't do it for money. They may do it to achieve the stated aims or some version thereof. They may dream of creating "scouting" as they imagine it was. They may do it because they think Eagle looks good on their son's resume. They may need to be The King of the Commandos. One would think that in the 103 years since scouting started in the U.S

B.S.A. is one of about 100 fraternal, charitable, or patriotic organizations that is chartered by Congress. http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode36/usc_sup_01_36_06_II_08_B.html (One is the N.E.A., and that would be an interesting discussion - for the political forum.) This discussion might be aided by knowing that a Congressional Charter not only does not make the private entity a federal entity, it does not give the federal government power to supervise the operation of the private entity. http://www.llsdc.org/attachments/wysiwyg/544/CRS-RL30340.pdf The charter is almost ent

If so, the BSA website doesn't know it.

"Unauthorized and Restricted Activities The following activities have been declared unauthorized and restricted by the Boy Scouts of America: All-terrain vehicles (ATVs) are banned from program use. ATVs are defined as motorized recreational cycles with three or four large, soft tires, designed for off-road use on a variety of terrains. Boxing, karate, and related martial artsexcept judo, aikido, and Tai Chiare not authorized activities. Chainsaws and mechanical log splitters may be authorized for use only by trained individuals over the age of 18, using proper

I can find no statement in BSA publications on insurance through B.S.A. that state any precondition whatsoever on coverage if you are a covered person, such as a registered Scouter or chartered organization. Lacking such a statement, it seems perfectly fair to call any claim that compliance with Two-deep Leadership is a precondition for coverage a "myth." http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss10.aspx However, recognize that failure to comply with GTSS makes a plaintiff's lawyer's job easier in proving "negligence." In most jurisdictions failure to compl