T2Eagle

I don't see STEM taking over anything. It would be a pleasant surprise to find out that what kids were doing instead of camping was science experiments, engineering projects, or Math equations. How many of your scouts spent this weekend doing that rather than camping?

There is no magic, but sit down with your scouts and figure out why they don't want to camp. Is the troop offering outings designed by te scouts? Are you letting them set the agenda or decide to not have an agenda? Are there places they would like to go but they aren't getting support to do so? It may be the answer to all these questions is that the scouts just really want to not do anything, but maybe placing a little challenge in front of them to go camp where and how they want to camp can jump start enough interest that your troop is at least offering the opportunity to get out in the woods once a month.

But how does it work with the Tour Permit? it needs two adults or it won't print.

AS NJ said, the outing is the big thing, the end trip. Whichever two adults are going to be the two adults on the trip, just put them in form wherever it asks for the names of adults. Submit the plan, if it's reviewed and anyone has a question they'll call you.

The whole thing is available online: http://www.scouting.org/Home/BoyScouts/Resources/TroopProgramFeaturesVol_I_III.aspx

Why every council office doesn't know this is beyond me.

Thanks for all the communication' date=' basically the boys have not been allowed to say or make changes they want to do. I plan on making it clear it's whatever they want to do. We have work to do in our Troop that is for sure and it all begins tonight as I and the other leaders begin to open their eyes to how a Boy-led troop works.[/quote']

 

 

Sounds like we'll be hearing a lot from you in the upcoming months. Let us help, we've got lots of opinions.

Please be sure that you are clear on when you are giving verified BSA policies and practices, and when you are providing an example of how you or your troop do it. See for instance some of the recent threads about Blue Cards, BORs, etc. Months, or even years from now, you don't want to be the source for someone saying "well in training they said we could ask a scout to come back another time if we just didn't feel he was 'Star material' yet."

Scout Sunday should be no different than any other Sunday, except for what one wears...maybe.

 

Stosh

This seems like a bit of an odd sentiment Stosh. In our unit we try to make it different than other Sundays. It is after all the celebration of Scouting's anniversary and the celebration of the faith component of Scouting. We and our Pack are chartered by a Catholic Church, we all process in and sit together. We fill many of the service roles in the service, we always receive a nice word from the priest, and we gather together afterwards for either pancakes or donuts. On any given other Sunday we would be spread over 6 different Masses, or at a different Church, or off somewhere camping --- something we never schedule for this one Sunday of the year. We have a few non-parishioners who are scouts; we hope, but do not demand that they celebrate with us. I would definitely consider it an "activity" for purposes of number of activities outside a troop or patrol meeting, just as I would consider attending a parade or a service project.

As to the original OP, my recommendation would be to congratulate your scouts on doing their Duty to God and being Reverent, and get them whatever patch you get for everyone else.. You would never want to be in a position of saying you shouldn't have gone to your Church you should have come here.

For those wondering about the advancement, I'm guessing that we're talking about electronic tracking of advancement, which I would think can either supplement or supplant tracking in a book, according to the Troop's SOP.

Have specific tasks for the parents to do at the meeting. First make sure whatever your activity has the Cubs hands on doing the activity. Then get the parents involved: " John, could you give out the X, parents make sure your scout is doing Y."

From what you're describing you have a sudden change in behaviors compared to the past. Someone who has done well in school for the first two years of high school but suddenly is failing and is expressing a new very negative attitude is waving a big red flag. My suspicion would be that this is not about better organizing his folders or spending too much time on extra-curricular activities, honestly by today's standards for a middle class kid just band and scouts is not a lot of extras. I would have a professional mental health professional have a few talks with him to see if there is something deeper going on.

I grew up sleeping in canvas tents, usually without a floor, using blankets and a surplus bag for a bedroll, and doing almost all my cooking on a fire. I also wore galoshes that buckled and multiple pairs of bulky pants to keep the cold and snow out. I was often cold, easily wet, and spent an inordinate amount of time cooking and cleaning.

Last weekend I pitched a dome tent in about 5 minutes, stayed warm in a hollofill mummy bag despite the single digit temps, woke up dry despite the five inches of overnight snow, stepped out of my tent wearing good quality boots and snow pants, and had the jet boil provide me a hot cup of coffee before I was even really awake.

Then I had an entire day of great fun in the snow with my scouts. I am not nostalgic for yesteryear.

I believe that the formal hierarchy is that everyone else reports up to the COR. The Committee Chair and all the Committee members are appointed by and need the approval of the COR. So the COR doesn't need the committee's approval, and if he/she asked for approval and didn't receive it they could just appoint a new committee and then ask again.

That said, almost every unit I've known, and all the units I've known that function well, do almost everything by consensus, while at the same time trusting individuals to make decisions when the need arises even if the decision made is not the one the majority would have made if they had been consulted.

' date=' by the Civic Arena that they tore down".[/quote']

 

I love descriptions like this. My wife's grandmother once gave me directions that included "turn right at the house that used to be yellow"

I should add that if Council doesn't make it easy for you to sell popcorn then don't sell it. They're getting half the profit from the sales so I think you'll find they're pretty accommodating when you call their bluff.

We can deposit checks directly into the Council account without running them through the Pack or Troop. I've never encountered it, but I assume this means they are responsible for collecting on bad checks since they're bouncing on their account.

I suspect even if the Council doesn't specifically set up a deposit system like this they would accept a stack of checks as payment if that's what you hand to them. I have never seen a professional scouter, and I know and love many of them, not accept a check handed to them. (:

We have a Committee Member who helps scouts to navigate the process. He has a good idea of what kind of projects will or won't be apprved by the DIstrict and helps scouts figure out where the holes are before they submit their project proposal; he also helps make sure the scout knows how and when to interract with the District person who coordinates the approval process and EBOR. Any and every other leader, including the scout's parents, will help if asked or needed, but this person is the point person for the scout.

.How do you stake your tents in winter. When we went out this weekend the ground was frozen solid, but there wasn't much snow on the ground. The standard stakes we had would only go in an inch or so before they stopped and/or bent.

Although it seems like a black letter law thing, Qwazse is right that it's a negotiation when you're talking about adults. I would guess that most units do it like ours --- summer camp is the motivator. You will not be allowed to check-in at camp without all the medicals. Focus on a comfortable date before that to collect everything and try to collect from especially all the scouts at the same time. It's also a good idea to get medical forms A&B when you get the original application from a new scout. I have had several out of council camps ask to see forms for a weekend campout, but our council camps do not.

This is not the hill you should die on, for adults, there's not really that much utility to the forms. If you go to the ER and you're conscious they're going to take a history from you. If you arrive at the ER unconscious some information might be helpful, especially if you have something unusual, but for the most part the medical professionals have protocols to use and that's what they follow. After all how many peope walk around with a medical history in their back pocket in case they end up at the ER that day. Do your best, especially to get the youth forms, make sure that everyone knows that if they're choosing not to provide forms they're running contrary to the rules, and then let them do their best.

Originally posted by Twocubdad View Post

Our Philmont crew had t-shirts which said, "1. Pain is fear leaving the body. 2. Tears are 98% estrogen. 3. Chicks dig scars."

I like #2 the best because women are weak and cry a lot and that's a life lesson I want to make sure my son and all my scouts take to heart.

Unless you have more information than you're putting in your post, I wouldn't worry as much about #2 and #3. I can't say much about #2 without knowing what is actually going on in the meeting. Number 3 could have a lot of innocent explanations. I receive calls on a regular basis asking for scouts to help with a flag ceremony --- more than we can fulfill. Most of the time I'll send a note to the troop because it takes asking a lot of people to get the four or so scouts needed to fulfill the request. But if someone asks for help with a color guard and the first four scouts I happen to ask then that's where I stop, that's not a snub, that's me being as efficient as I can fulfilling the request I receive.

I think the OP is saying he is asked questions that do not pertain to his advancement, [THAT DO NOT PERTAIN TO] his views on the troop, [AND THAT DO NOT PERTAIN TO] areas he might improve." But maybe I'm the one misreading it.

BORs should be only what BORs should be. Read the GTA and if what you're doing is either more or less than that it's a disservice to the scout. This seems not only from these boards but from my own experience one of the weaker areas in the Advancement method of the program. I just looked at Scouting.org and cannot find any specific training for how to conduct them, but they are actually a great opportunity for the kind of e-training that can be done. Have a presenter explain exactly what their format and purpose should be. Explicitly say what they should not be. Have a mock demonstrations of what are good questions and what are bad questions, and then explain what should be done for the scout and for the troop, as a result of the information the committee gets as a result of a good BOR.

For the OP, my advice is read the Guide to Advancement (GTA), thoroughly, and then try to start a conversation in the troop and committee about how and why your BORs are conducted compared to the Guide. Don't start out telling people they're doing it wrong, start by asking "I read here that we should be doing this, but it looks like we're doing it this way instead, how come we do it differently?" It is a good bet that most of your committee members have never read the relevant parts of the GTA. It's possible that enough of them, if provided with the right information will be willing to make adjustment, if they can't ask yourself and your son if the troop is where you want to be given the way they operate. I am willing to try to bring change, but I am not going to spend years rolling a stone up hill. If change looks doable, great, if not there are probably people not too far away doing things better and you and your son can take advantage of the program that way.

The G2SS specifically talks about a child who does not meet the age guidelines, so Cub and Webelos age siblings who accompany a parent are almost always going to meet the test of being age appropriate.

The G2SS also describes Family Camping as kosher, and that probably accurately describes the situation where a sibling accompanies a parent: "Family camping is an outdoor experience, other than resident camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing program elements in overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their children, and Youth Protection policies apply."

Our last couple SE's did the same thing. You can have one sent to your spouse as an alternative. It is a nice gesture.

Andysmom, as to what you should do, my suggestion would be to take the long view. This scout is almost certainly going to complete the silly added on requirement that the CC is imposing and become Star in two weeks. Rather than argue about this specific case, use it as evidence that there is a wide variance among the committee about what a BOR should be. See if you can get the committee to meet to try to find a consensus about this issue, take the opportunity to have some training materials available, and ask to have someone from the District (not your husband) come in to provide some guidance.

Hopefully, an approach that says we should all be on the same page so it's consistent for all our scouts, will put you all in better compliance with the program.

This kind of stuff drives me nuts. We require that scouts be trained, tested, and reviewed on their skills. We don't require much of any of that from ourselves in the program. Whatever might be the good intentions of the CC here he is acting contrary to the process as it is set up, and thereby doing a disservice to his scouts.

It is not the role of the CC or the BOR to "feel" whether a scout is ready for star, nor to determine the speed of his advancement, nor to demand more leadership from him than is required for the rank.

It would be appropriate for him to provide the scout with his opinion as to ways to better experience personal growth by encouraging him to seek to build his leadership skills or by asking him to contemplate whether he is focusing too much on quick advancement to the detriment of his full experience with the program. That's all fine, but scouts don't need to heed every bit of advice they receive and so long as they are completing the requirements they should be recognized and celebrated for doing so. If the CC thinks that the troop's program isn't providing the necessary opportunities then he should take that up with the SM.

As to your specific questions about written notice, you should have taken a vote as to whether to award the rank. If the vote wasn't unanimous then that means the scout was rejected, if that's the case here are the relevant quotes from the GTA.

"A Scout must not be rejected at a board of review for reasons unrelated to advancement requirements."

"In any case, a follow-up letter must be promptly sent to a Scout who is turned down. It must include actions advised that may lead to advancement, and also an explanation of appeal procedures. (See"Appealing a Decision,"8.0.4.0, "

Stosh and I seem to be thinking a lot alike these days. A good coffee mug is always appreciated. I have a nice collection of ceramic ones, some dating from my days as a scout, but I tend to be rough on gear while camping so I would urge you to consider a good camping/backpacking mug, sealable and with a carabiner handle.

The article says 21 other jurisdictions have similar policies. It looks like Ohio is among them. But it gives a broad exception for "purely private organization whose membership limitations could not constitutionally be prohibited..."

RULE 3.6 Affiliation with Discriminatory Organizations

(A) A judge shall not hold membership in any organization that practices

invidious discrimination on the basis of race, sex, gender, religion, national origin,

ethnicity, or sexual orientation.

COMMENT

[2] ...Whether an organization practices invidious discrimination is a complex question to which judges should be

attentive. The answer cannot be determined from a mere examination of an organization’s

current membership rolls, but rather, depends upon how the organization selects members, as

well as other relevant factors, such as whether the organization is dedicated to the preservation of

religious, ethnic, or cultural values of legitimate common interest to its members, or whether it is

an intimate, purely private organization whose membership limitations could not constitutionally

be prohibited.