T2Eagle

The other thread was mistitled.  Instead of "Scouting Would Be So Much Better Without The Parents" it should read "Scouting Would Be So Much Better Without The Adults"

I doubt many of his fellow scouts have any trouble seeing their troopmate as "Eagle Material."

We do planning during a December cabin weekend.  We plan through the following February.

Several of the more "experienced" of my fellow scouters almost needed a defibrillator the first time I told the scouts they were starting with a clean slate and just because we had "always" done something didn't mean we had to do it again or in the same way.  That said, there are several campouts that always make it onto the calendar: we put on a joint weekend with our affiliated Cub Pack every year, we almost always have a Tenderfoot weekend in late April early May to get our newest scouts into the groove of patrol based tent camping, summer camp dates are adult dependent and we pick them more than a year in advance, and there is a parish member and supporter of the troop who invites us for a weekend at his farm every year.  Even though we do seem to always include these trips I make the scouts vote them up or down so just they know it really is up to them.

I ended up at University of Scouting class about Annual Program Planning where the instructor said he as SM sat down each year and put all the District and Council events plus all the traditional trips their troop took on the calendar and then let his scouts decide on maybe one trip a year.  We had a vigorouos discussion about how that fit into a boy-led model; I wasn't really interested in trying to change his mind, but I thought the other participants could use a second opinion.

Regrettably we are not very good at planning themes and weekly meeting topics that far ahead; for the most part we use the PLC to plan the meetings for the next month.

OUCH!!!

That's too bad for the boys in Bismark.

Peregrinator posted another link in the Gates thread showing that the Bishop of Fargo is OK allowing the continuing of his Parishes' relationships.

http://www.inforum.com/news/3809853-fargo-diocese-thanks-boy-scouts-stating-faith-based-organizations-can-pick-leaders

Local option.

We have a local RCChurch that charters a Pack and Troop.  One must profess the Catholic faith to be a Scout in their units.  Small, but active and well supported.

That's really unusual to require.  Neither mine nor any other RC unit I've known would require it, nor do any of the schools I've been involved with.

I've told every kid I talked to about it that I was homesick too -- everyone is to some extent or another, but that needn't stop you from having fun while you're here.

The most snow was 6 inches overnight on my very first camp out as a boy scout. It had not been forecasted and it was 80 degrees the day before. We were not prepared to say the least. I remember the SM walking through camp at sunup telling everyone to pack up and don't eat the yellow snow.

 

I can't say I remember our coldest campout, we have had several below zero. While we don't a lot of snow in Oklahoma, it does get cold now and then. 

 

Barry

Was your SM Frank Zappa?

Around here (Memphis area) we get a lot to show up and sign up, then at the Parent Orientation when you explain BSA doesn't stand for BabySitters of America and they have to attend as well then you don't see them anymore.

Have you seen this thread?

scouting-would-be-so-much-better-without-the-parents

I live in Texas, what is this snow thing you speak of?

You know that once a year when the news shows y'all driving y'all's pickups into each other for no apparent reason, snow (and it's close cousin ice) is the actual reason.

I see one problem in winter camping in general, it gets dark too fast. Usually by around 6 pm. You can do some campfire things but cold and dark usually isnt fun and you 2-3 hours until everyones ready for bed.

My scouts play many variations of flashlight tag, german spotlight, etc.  Dark snowy woods are a blast!!

-10F, 10 inches of snow between lunch and dinner (two different trips).  We always kind of hope for one or the other.

I'd quibble with one or two small things in the posts but mostly good advice so far.

The key is proper equipment and training, training, training before you go.

One thing I have learned that I don't think has been mentioned is doing a pack check --- you need to see everyone's sleeping gear and clothing before you go, scouts and parents will ignore things like properly rated bags, sufficient boots, and no cotton clothing.  The difference between a winter camp and other times is that improper equipment is a safety issue that you the adult have to be responsible for rather than just a hard learned lesson the scout is responsible for.

It probably depends a lot on where people live. The ethnic makeup of a troop is probably going to reflect the ethnic makeup of the area that the troop is from. So if you see an "all black" troop at summer camp, it may well be that the population of the city, town or neighborhood that the troop is from is primarily of that group as well.

Sadly, I find that our troops don't reflect the ethnic make up of our towns.  From Jamboree to summer camp to council and district events, to anyplace you want to name it appears to me that BSA is not reflective of the ethnic diversity that makes up America.  BSA in fact disproportionately serves white youth.  

We all know that BSA does not include a proportionate number of black inner city youth, but no one serves those youth proportionately; that BSA cannot do better than the rest of our society there is unfortunate but not unexpected.   My bigger concern is that BSA does not look even as diverse as our local middle class high schools --- not in the number of Asian-Americans, not, as Mashmaster noted, in the number of Indian-Americans, and not in the number of middle class African-Americans.

I think at least part of this is our reliance on Churches as CORs, but I think there is more to it.  For some reason those families and those boys do not see either the value and/or the welcome in scouting that we want them to.

I don't know the answer, but I think the problem is us not them.

Good for your son, ridiculous on the part of the adult.

Why not Camping or Cooking?

One idea might be to talk about a recent campout from one of the age groups, especially Cubs, then give all the details necessary for another Pack to tackle it.  If no Packs have camped recently, which is probably true in my area, find a good place for them to camp and lay out a turn-key program for how they could pull the campout off.

For Boy Scouts how about a round up of where Troops went last month.  Some of the best discussions I've had with my scouts come from when one of them will see the cover of Boys' Life and say "why can't we do that?"  The answer of course is we can if you're wiling to do the work.  We've never managed the biggest trips we've seen, but we've pushed our program to do smaller versions of them.

I have a friend in their IT division.. 

 

 

 

That's fascinating, do their hold the same dismal view of their IT as many of us on the outside hold?

Since no one else mentioned it, I am posting the link for the National Catholic Committee on Scouting Response. http://www.nccs-bsa.org/pdf/letters/NCCS%20Statement-150727.pdf

We Catholics seem to be OK with it.

“The resolution also affirms the chartered organization’s right to select its unit leaders based on its religious principles, rejects any interference with that right, and provides that local Scout councils will not interfere with chartered organizations’ rights in this regard. It is not entirely clear how these rights will be squared with previous policy changes the Boy Scouts have made, or how they will work in practice, but it appears that the resolution respects the needs of Catholic chartered organizations in the right to choose leaders whose character and conduct are consistent with those of Catholic teaching."

To me the most important part of the statement is in the concluding paragraph:

“If you are like us, you joined Scouting to make a difference in the lives of others. Our youth don’t want to leave Scouting. Catholic Scouters like you are still very much needed. Let’s continue this important journey together and pray for the future of Scouting! Thank you for all you do to promote Scouting as Catholic youth ministry!â€

The memo is a bit long on assertions and short on legal analysis to back them up.

Both the Catholic Church and the Mormon Church appear to be OK with the BSA legal position; if they're not worried then no one else should be. 

Scouter99,

For your Private Group do you have to monitor or, heaven forfend, "moderate" the posts your parents make?

The last thing I want is either political messages or cat videos showing up in the troop feed.

The new name seems pretty lame.  Couldn't they come up with something that had something to do with where they are?

Lepzid,

Did the unit receive any information or communication.  The language you use indicates a letter addressed to the applicant not the unit.

Packsaddle,

BSA uses a third part carrier or carriers.  If someone in your unit gets hurt, contact your council office and they will send you the first of several mounds of paperwork to fill out.  A very simplified explanation is that their insurance is usually secondary so they will cover what your own health care does not.

There should be a name on the bottom of the letter, either contact that person and ask for clarification or figure where that person reports on the food chain and ask them.

The language you quoted is pretty harsh.  I've never had an app turned down in my unit, but no one else here has ever mentioned language that strong when discussing other denials.

I do appreciate this forum and would ;ike to add my thanks to the moderators, I believe they do an excellent job.

I've found "bail and shop for a better venue" to be pretty solid advice an awful lot of the time, frankly especially when it comes to clients and bosses.  When dealing with human beings the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior; you can and usually should try to work things out, but understand that often that's not really going to work very well, that's not to imply that either side is a bad person, but most people are pretty stuck in their ways.  There are other companies to work for, other clients to get, other MBCs that will better help you achieve your goals.

The 12th point of the Scout Law: A scout is Reverent ... a scout respects the BELIEFS of others.

 when we have an organization that we have helped before (our local food bank) that specifically asks us to help with something are we supposed to say, "I'm sorry, that sounds kind of boring for our scouts. So we won't help."?

 

 

I have a different take on this than the other posters.  The first question I thought of was who agreed to this project.  It sounds like this was the adults' idea not the scouts, and that may be a part of the struggle for volunteers (I may come back to the Eagle project later).

I often hear from adults in my troop either a) we need to do more service projects or b) here's a great opportunity for service you should get the scouts involved.  What I have to do as politely as possible is explain that just because you don't see them do it doesn't mean they're not doing service work --- almost certainly more than I did when I was a scout.  For instance, adults who don't camp with us every month don't see the scouts voluntarily join an ongoing project at whatever camp we're using or come up with their own project that makes a small improvement for the land owner or camp.  

Additionally, most of my scouts attend Catholic schools so they have a certain number of service hours they have to complete every year, plus more hours if they're being confirmed, plus most of their extra curricular activities, including sports teams, either are service work or in the case of the teams and clubs incorporate service work as part of their required activities.  There is also a tendency to overlook the various activities that are such a routine part of our calendar that we don't even see them any more as the work that they are.

When adults want the troop to get involved in a new project I don't say yes unless 1) they are willing to go to the PLC and get real buy in from them and 2) they are willing to be the adult mentor who helps the PLC make the project work; that mentoring includes making sure that they help the scouts do the nitty gritty work of getting personal commitments from both the right number of scouts and the right opinion leader scouts so that there is sufficient turnout to ensure success; standing up at a meeting and saying "next week we're all going to meet and do project X"  is not a formula for success.

My predecessor warned me that there are a lot of people who have a lot of good ideas about things I should do, experience has taught me to say no if the idea comes without a sufficient co-commitment to make it work.

You joined the grouping KNOWING of this policy!! I hope someone joins something you hold dear and totally changes it to something you can't abide by so you can walk a mile in our shoes.

I joined decades before there was even discussion of whether there was such a policy.  I don't know what I myself would have thought back then, but my own views, and the views of many other scouters, have changed as I've learned about, became aware of, and became friends, colleagues, and family members with, people who happened to be gay.  

Scouting IS something I hold dear, and the policy has been hard for me to abide, but I believed that the balance of the program enabled me to serve my scouts despite what I saw as a pretty big flaw in it.  So I have hiked many miles in those boots that now feel uncomfortable to you, and Scouting was dear enough to me to keep on hiking.

Despite what many would like to believe, this change isn't being driven by some conspiratorial group of outsiders.  Going back as far as Dale and arguments about the Philadelphia council and their headquarters, most of the time it is someone outside of the unit or the council who has complained about participation by gay and lesbian scouts and scouters.  Usually the people who know and see the person as an individual, not as a characteristic, don't have a problem with that person.

Scouting has a lot to offer young people and those who want to serve them (as of course do many other programs).  The chances that you or your unit will be asked to have someone you would not want participate are passingly small.  If you're part of a religious CO you'll be allowed to maintain your choice and send that person to another unit.  If you're not part of a religious CO than  you will need to decide whether to remain or change units.