SMT224

First, why is he on an overnight Troop event? Unless he's a registered Scouter with the Troop he should not be there, even if he's family.

Second, he brought his boyfriend? No, absolutely not! As BS-87 said, it doesn't matter if it's a boy friend or girl friend -- this is not to occur on a Troop camping trip.

Sounds like the Scoutmaster is blurring a Troop event with a family camping trip. If his son wants to go camping with his boy friend, they can do it on their own. A Scout camping trip is not for that kind of thing.

Parents need to let the Scoutmaster know that if his son and his boy friend are on the trip, their sons will not be.

As with others posting here, our Troop budgets about ~$100 for the cake, Eagle kit, and neckerchief. The family is responsible for decorations and food. Some families cook all kinds of things, some cater, and some do an extended family potluck. It's always different, always good.

For the OP, ZScout5, what is being purchased for the $500+??

It must be an amazing ECOH!!!

As long as there's room in the class, it's fine. You just won't earn a mb.

The archery mb class at the summer camp our Troop attends is very popular as it's taught by a gold medal Olympic champion from the US team. Scouts who have taken the class once and earned the mb are prohibited from taking it again. However, they offer an "advanced archery" class and an "Olympic-style archery" class for those who have earned the archery mb but want to continue to learn.

Just to echo other posts here... find something else besides foil dinners!

Foil dinners have a significant number of failure points -- contamination issues during preparation via touching raw hamburger & lack of immediate hand-washing facilities, under cooked meat, over cooked meat and other foods sticking to the foil, and foil tearing & opening up in fire area and contaminating food.

We used to do them fairly often, but after intimately experiencing each of the problems described above, including a particularly nasty bout of food poisoning directly linked to undercooked meat, the Scouts and Adults in our Troop decided never ever again.

As others have said, when it comes to food, the simpler the better!

I'm glad some understand that this summer camp card or letter is solely intended for FUN. Fun for the Scout to fill out, fun for the parent to read. That's it. An added benefit is that the Scout learns how to address postal correspondence.

Some commenting on my post seem a bit crabby about all this. We don't expect that parents are going to be hyperventilating awaiting this communication from their Scout whilst he's off at camp - that's not the intention. Nor does it really matter if it arrives before or after the Scout comes back from camp. It's just a fun item to add to the accumulated scraps of his time in Scouting. Our experience indicates that it adds to the overall parent/son communication, and helps him better tell about summer camp.

My intent in posting this was to see if anyone out there had done something similar and if they had any creative suggestions for additional elements to add.

Yep, not only do they not know their home address, they have no idea how to put the address on the postcard!

I bring a TroopMaster printout of everyone addresses, but still have to guide them as to how to print it out on the postcard. Since I'm leaning towards doing a letter this year, I guess I could do self addressed envelopes... but really would rather have them learn how to address a letter!

I've skipped this the past couple of years, but figured I'd do it again this year - the infamous "Summer Camp Post Card"! Or maybe even in letter form this year!

This is a way for the Scouts to actually communicate with their parental units and let them know they are (or maybe are not) having fun at summer camp.

It's a multiple choice with space for comments. I might do it as a letter this year, as the card had been a bit small for all the comments the Scouts seem to want to add. But if that's the case I might have to add more choices.

We usually have them fill it out on Tuesday evening and get it in the mail Wednesday. It usually get to the parent Friday or Saturday.

Anyways, here is what I have so far. Please add any additional items that might be fun! Thanks!

***********

Greetings from Summer Camp!

Dear _________, Date:________

Im having fun at camp: yes, no, not sure yet, what me worry?

Went swimming today: yes, no, not sure, havent found pool yet

Total number of mosquito bites: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100, 1000+

Getting enough food: yes, no, not sure yet, havent found food yet

Dining hall food: tasty, good, bad, alive, biohazard, unidentified, yummy

The weather: hot, cool, nice, rainy, sunny, breezy, freezing, not sure

Merit Badge Classes: fun, lots-of-work, interesting, easy, boring

My tent: cozy, buggy, dark, smelly, nice, scary, inhabited by Trolls

Troop fire: tiny, average, big, huge, massive, forest fire, like 1000 suns

Bottles of water drank (Pool/Lake water doesn't count): 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

Bought at Trading Post: candy, ice cream, knife, t-shirt, flash light

Send: money, candy, ice cream, cookies, TV, emergency crews, the Army

Summer Camp: great, fun, too long, too short, just right, not sure yet

Much Love,

Comments:

Thanks for your replies. I appreciate the information.

The situation at hand is an older Scout that is a POR, 2 mb, & a project away from Eagle. He was a very active Scout up until about a year and a half ago, but now is very involved in sports and has been at Troop meetings and camping trips about 3 months out of 12 -- when he doesn't have a game or practice. He has been "Instructor" and "Guide" over the years, but had only put a month of actual active work into each. If those times count, then it's a matter of getting him to focus on POR activities when he is at a meeting or outing for another 4 months. We were afraid he'd have to start all over again, something that just seemed impossible, given how little we see him!

Quick question here...

Is the time in a POR for advancement to be done in a contiguous stretch of time (4 months for Star, 6 months for Life & Eagle), or can it be broken up into bits -- a month here, a few weeks there, over a period of several years, until the full 4 or 6 months is achieved?

Thanks!

Let's face it, the National events like the Jamboree and High Adventure Boy Scout Outings are for the rich Troops. If you can do it, go for it! If you've got the buck have a blast! But a significant number of the Scouts in our urban/suburban Troop can barely pay for summer camp, let alone monthly camping trips and registration. Something like Jamboree and High adventure are so far out of our league we can't even think about it! Big deal, so what! We have plenty of fun and adventure in state parks and on Forest Service trails. If you can do this kind of thing, great! But there are a bunch of Scouts Troops out there who can't even commence to think about doing this kind of thing. And you know what? We don't miss it one bit! We still create fun and amazing activities that fulfill all the BSA requirements, conduct projects that provide service to our community and Nation, breed great Eagles, and have a absolute blast at a fraction of the cost of all these Scouting events that National creates for the bored rich kids. Forget about this bs, don't pay it and create your own events and outings!!

Some of our most serious trouble makers came from the perfect looking white upper middle class families. They are no longer in the Troop.

Some of the best Scouts now in our Troop are minorities from single mom families. They set an excellent example for the rest of the Scouts.

The difference between the two? The boy who wants to be a Scout, irregardless of class or race, tends to follow the Scout Law, enjoy outings, and contribute to the good of the Troop.

...turning around the toxic scout...

Is that our job? Really? To spend our incredibly limited time focused on a kid that in all likelihood doesn't want to be in Scouting in the first place, and letting those who really are into the Scouting program slip away? Maybe other Troops out there have the resources in terms of adult leadership but we discovered the hard way that we really do not.

Several years ago, we had an influx of boys ages 12-15 who were dropped off by their single mom. These kids were in major need of help, and their moms simply couldn't deal with them any more because they had become too much of a challenge. I guess the moms hoped Scouting would give these troubled youth character and help them become better citizens. But the boys didn't want to be there and did what ever they felt like, Scout Law or not. We tried to work with them, and ended up spinning our wheels and not giving enough time to the other "good" Scouts. We finally decided that either you follow the Scout Law or you don't -- enough of the coddling and coaxing.

Once that standard is set for all, and everyone knows it, the bullies & toxic kids either change or are out. Either way the Troops wins - either the kids shapes up and becomes a Scout, or to the great relief of the Troop, he's out. The fairest thing to everyone is to enforce the Law evenly to all. There is no reason to keep a toxic kid because you think it's the right thing to do while you sacrifice the rest of the Troop at the same time.

Here's what one Patrol in our Troop did on a past camping trip...

They chopped up bacon and cooked it until crispy in a big skillet. They removed it and dumped most of the grease. They added chopped potatoes and onions and cooked until soft. They put the bacon back in and a dozen eggs. When the eggs were cooked, they turned the stove off, covered everything with a double layer of chocolate bars, and put the lid for about five minutes.

They ate it all, but decided not to do it again.

Yep Turtle, you have a difficult case.

Prior to any outing I let all the Scouts know that we are all bound by the Scout Law and we do not ever engage in activities or words that fall outside the Law. This allows any adult leader or PL/SPL to call out behavior or language that is clearly not Scout-like.

In the case of the Scout in your Troop, his language would merit an immediate, "how does that fit into the Scout Law?" He may think he's been quite clever by being the snide cynic -- something that abundant on the internet and several TV shows. If he still does not get it, i.e. doesn't see the need to curb his language, then a suspension would be appropriate.

It's not as hard as you might think to suspend a Scout for this kind of behavior - let him take a couple months off to think about it and then see if he can return with more Scout-like behavior. Either the Scout is back having learned his lesson, or he's out of the Troop. I've had to do this three times now, and the immediate benefit is an overwhelming sense of relief among the other Scouts - the ones who really are trying to live the Scout Law. It's like the sun comes out after a particularly nasty storm. You don't realize how badly it's affected the other Scouts until it's gone.

We suspended a Scout in November for three months due to some very unScout-like behavior. He came back in March and let us know very quickly that he had not changed at all. His suspension was extended for a year.

You and the other adult leaders owe it to the Troop (and this kid) not to tolerate destructive and demoralizing language or behavior.

Seattle -

Thanks for letting me clarify...

"Another method might be to announce in advance that Scouts attending the hike and completing the map and compass work would receive an ice cream treat."

Not only was it announced before the camping trip, but has become part of the Troop culture over the past 5 or 6 years... Scouts who get all the markers get a ChocoTaco. I apologize for not adding this to my original post. This is partly why I'm in shock from the CM comment. But then, as I thought about it, I did wonder if the Scouts think it's a good thing to do -- hence, I'll bring it up at PLC.

And thanks you, yes, it was a great trip this year - weather great, great participation, and for the first time ever, the older Scouts did night orienteering!

Thanks for your thoughtful responses.

Yes, I'm the SM. It was a Committee Member, not CC or COR.

T

he ice cream (a "ChocoTaco", which is basically a frozen ice cream cone novelty-like item) was passed out to the Scouts as we watched the photos from the trip. I did not notice any Scouts who got the ice cream gloating. They ate, & everyone watched.

Passing out at the camping trip is an option. I'll have to see how ice cream could stay frozen from Friday to Sunday morning. I wonder if I'd get grief from someone for giving boys ice cream on Sunday morning?! But, as others have said, the reward could be something else and less melt-able than ice cream. I was trying to stick to a reward that could be eaten. But even so, it may well be likely be that those who did not complete the course and find all the markers would be left out. What then?

I think I'll bring the issue up at the PLC next week and see what they think. Then I'll discuss at the next Committee meeting with PLC input.

For the past 8 years, we have our May camping trip in a rugged forest area with significant hills & ravines and an excellent & very detailed topographic map. I arrive early on Friday and put out 10 to 20 orienteering markers positioned carefully and marked on the map. We spend Saturday morning hiking and doing map and compass exercises, then on Saturday afternoon we send the Scouts out in groups of 2 or 3 to find the orienteering markers. We find this to be an excellent way for Scouts to learn and retain map and compass skills. And have fun doing it. It's a challenge, and most really embrace it.

One of the things we have done over the years is to give those Scouts who find all of the orienteering markers ice cream at the Troop meeting following this camping trip. On the particular trip we just came back from, all attending Scouts found all the markers, so everyone got ice cream.

But actually, not everyone got ice cream. There were about 10 Scouts at the meeting last night who had not been on the camping trip, so they did not get ice cream. I was pulled aside by a Committee Member after the meeting who was very upset about the ice cream, and said that it was downright cruel that some Scouts got ice cream and others did not. "How do you think those other Scouts felt?" I was asked. None had looked upset or demoralized to me, so I reckoned they felt like they'd wished they'd gone and would likely go next year.

This was not persuasive, and I was told to put a stop to it. "Unless everyone gets ice cream", I was told, "no one should get it." Seriously? The Scouts who found all the markers hiked about a 3 mile circuit with steep ravines and hills doing plenty of physical and mental work. In my mind, they deserved a reward! This year was an exception in that all attending the trip found all the markers. Usually some get tired or lazy or just quit... and they don't get ice cream!

Is this cruelty to children??

Or a reward for a job well done and motivation to do better next time?

Should everyone be a winner even if they didn't do anything?

Or should no one be a winner because some didn't do it?

I use my fleece sweater for a pillow. I can make it any size by folding or wading it up to be as big as or flat as is comfortable. Then, when I get up I have a warmed fleece ready for the cool morning. Plus, this way I'm not carrying any extra weight or bulk, as I use my hammock (ENO singlenest) mostly when backpacking.

One of our many Aspy Scouts has been our Librarian for years - it's the only POR he can deal with, and he does an excellent job! He's cataloged everything, and no one can touch it but him. Everyone, including adults, must check things out through the Librarian. He monitors updates and lets us know when we need to update a particular MB book, and which ones are so out of date they cannot be used and must be archived. And yes, he manages our archive as well!

But, as far as the list of counselors? No, he doth not maintain. That stays with the Advancement Committee person. Which works out just fine.

Goodness! What a pessimistic bunch!

I wouldn't give up that easily!!

Whether you divulge or not in pursuit of leadership will depend on what your personal sense is when you talk with Troop leadership. And you don't have to do it right away. You can hold off signing up immediately and see how the Troop feels, as well as what their leadership needs are.

If they have plenty of adult leaders, they might reject you just because they really do not have the need. On the other hand, if they are in dire need of leaders, you would stand a much better chance, especially if the Troop seems tolerant and open to moving past your history. When I turned in my application, the CC was the local Sheriff! And he approved it!

hls2015 - We have not had any problems along those lines. So there is precedent that you can become a leader and thrive with your son in Scouting.

But of course this depends on the Troop you are joining and the viewpoint of the CO. Do you have other possible Troops to join if this one does not work out?

packsaddle is correct in that the CO has the final say. However, this really does not mean automatic rejection or even a high probability of rejection. It depends on the person, their values, and how they see Scouting. In our case, the CO is an understanding Catholic Priest.

Welcome to the club hls2015. There are 2 of us in our Troop with past convictions. We filled out our applications and forged ahead. No one has ever brought it up, and neither have we. It's been 14 years of leadership for me (Scoutmaster), about ten for one of our best Assistant Scoutmasters. We learned our lesson and have moved on. As with you, our past crimes were in our early 20's and non-violent/non-sexual in nature.

My advice, take the online Youth Protection training, fill out the application, and move forward. If someone in the Troop leadership chain has concerns, address only their issues and don't bring it up again. Once you are a leader, get as much training as you can, follow the 2 deep leadership rules to an extreme, and become the best leader possible. People really appreciate who you are now, not a mistake from the past.

Be aware that not all Troops attending summer camp embrace Order of the Arrow.

I know this is shocking heresy, but the truth of the matter is that our Troop has never been involved with OA and it is unlikely that we ever will be involved. We nevertheless respect the OA and the good work the involved Scouts and Scouters do.

Thus, we are not interested in attending any kind of OA ceremony. At the summer camp we currently attend, the OA call-out ceremony is a very big part of the Friday night campfire. After our first year experience, we now place our Troop at the very back and make a quiet exit just as the ceremony starts. The camp management has let us know that while they cannot force us to attend, they are not happy we do not stay. There are a couple other Troops that leave before the OA ceremony starts as well. No doubt the Camp management sees this as disruptive, and would prefer quiet rapt attention of all.

What's disconcerting is that there's often an overt lack of tolerance of those who are very involved in OA to those Troops not involved. In your role as OA Summer Chief, know that not all Troops are as interested in OA as you may be, and would appreciate respect for that choice rather than disdain. We are still good Scouts and Scouters, and follow the program as well as any other Troop, just not involved in OA!

I've moved to a hammock as well. My kids and I are using ENO DoubleNest Hammocks (www.eaglesnestoutfittersinc.com) with a cheap blue tarp strung above. Very comfortable. This system is my preference unless there are no trees or it's very buggy. Easy to set up and take down, and no worries about rocky, uneven, or wet ground. I take my hammock to summer camp too so I have a great napping site!