SMT224

Expel the offending Scouts immediately. A SM can do this for such gross violation of not only the Scout Law, but Camp and local laws as well. Your Troop will be much better off without these kind of boys. BSA really is not "Baby Sitters of America"! We are not social services bound to take care of the disruptive and criminally intent.

Several years ago, we had two very disruptive brothers in our Troop who did not want to be in Scouting. Their parents were very active in the Troop, and forced the boys to be in Scouting. The result was two kids who did all they could to disrupt meetings and activities. I was a very new and very unexperienced Scoutmaster, and bought into the parental excuses for the boys behavior. Their behavior became worse and worse until we caught them committing a severe act of vandalism that cost the Troop nearly $1000 in damages. The boys were steadfast in their denials despite being caught red-handed. Their parents supported their innocence and refused to pay for any of the damage. Before they could be expelled, they all quit the Troop.

Once these bad boys were gone, the climate of the Troop changed significantly for the better. The behavior of these two boys affected everything in a very negative way, and their departure was like the sun coming out after a bad storm. The other Scouts noticeably relaxed, as these kids were real bully's as well (something I had not realized, as I was so focused on their disruptive behavior). In retrospect, and as a lesson hard learned, I should have called them out for the minor stuff before it got out of control. All Scouts need to know that behavior outside of the Scout Law will not be tolerated. Not dealing with it lets them know they can do more of the same.

Several years ago, we had two very disruptive brothers in our Troop who did not want to be in Scouting. Their parents were very active in the Troop, and forced the boys to be in Scouting. The result was two kids who did all they could to disrupt meetings and activities. I was a very new and very unexperienced Scoutmaster, and bought into the parental excuses for the boys behavior. When I talked to them, they were the best Scouts ever and told me exactly what I wanted to hear. There were several occasions I would now not tolerate and send both the boys and their father home. Unfortunately, I did tolerate it and the acting out and bad behavior became worse until we caught them committing a severe act of vandalism that cost the Troop nearly $1000 in damages. The boys were steadfast in their denials despite being caught red-handed. Their parents supported their innocence and refused to pay for any of the damage. Before they could be expelled, they all quit the Troop. In retrospect, and as a lesson hard learned, I should have called them out for the minor stuff before it got out of control. Sending a Scout home sends the Scout a message that behavior outside of the Scout Law will not be tolerated. Not dealing with it lets them know they can do more of the same.

I have held Scouts back on this advancement element when I observe them cheating on service projects or Scout games, getting out of camp clean-up, being disrespectful to adult leaders or other Scouts, or acting in an un-Scout-like way. These may small things, but they do not fit within the Scout Spirit. Subjective? Yes! But some boys like camping and other Troop activities, but don't see why they should be bound by the Scout law. They are there to have fun and thats it - unfortunately their brand of fun usually means more work for others, hurt feelings, and sometimes damage to property. I do the Scout Spirit sign off as part of the Scoutmasters Conference, and engage them in conversation as to how they think they live the law and oath. The Scouts who are active member of the Troop and care about being a Scout are interested in telling me how the live the Scout Spirit everyday. Most of the boys I have held back on this are embarrassed and understand what they did wrong and their behavior improves significantly. Those that don't get it usually quit, and the Troop is better without them.

We use the JASM position very differently in our Troop than the initial post or subsequent messages.

A Scout usually, although not always, becomes a JASM following his stint as the SPL (The SPL in our Troop is almost always one of the older Scouts.). As JASM, the Scout is the primary mentor to the new SPL, and is the wise old sage for the Troop. He helps the new SPL deal with Troop meetings, camp outs, and especially summer camp. He is very much part of the Scouts, and does not hang with the adults. As Scoutmaster, I consult with the SPL on overall Troop operations, but will occasionally task the JASM with specific jobs that are beyond the scope of the SPL. The JASM is often working on his Eagle, so this leadership position allows him the time to focus on his project, yet still be an integral member of the Troop.

The idea that a JASM tents alone in the adult area is totally wrong. No Scout under 18 can ever tent alone - no matter the rank or leadership position. We keep our adult tent and table areas as separate as possible. The idea of bringing a JASM into the adult fold is just weird - what's the point? I can't imagine any of our JASMs who would want to hang with the old farts!

A little more than a year ago one of our Scouts who had done everything for his Eagle except his Board of Review was killed by a drunk driver. The Troop is still not over it. At summer camp this year, a number of the Scouts make RIP-themed crafts in art and wood carving. His initials are everywhere. The family was heavily involved in Scouting, and both his brothers are Troop Eagles. He did receive his Eagle, but we have yet to do any kind of a court of honor. The trial of the driver was in May, and the family is still feeling very raw. This one stupid act by a 19 year old kid who thought he could drive just fine has effected so many of us, and I don't expect we will ever get over it.

We went to Camp Bashore in the PA Blue Mountains this year. The camp was very supportive to the Patrol - the campsite was set up with Patrol areas (5 tents and a dining fly). Our area had four Patrol areas, one of which we used for adults. All the camp wide games focused on the Patrol working together, and the camp awards were for the Patrol. The only way a Troop could get an award was to have all it's Patrols win the Patrol award. We did not do Patrol cooking, but a neighboring campsite did and they found it worked quite well. The camp provided stoves, chuck boxes full of pots, pans, plates and utensils, and of course the food to cook in camp. It looked good to me, but I think we'll stick to the dining hall (food was good, and plenty of it!).

Just back from Camp Bashore in the PA Blue Mountains. The camp was very supportive to the Patrol - the campsite was set up with Patrol areas (5 tents and a dining fly), all the camp wide games focused on the Patrol working together, and the camp awards were for the Patrol. The only way a Troop could get an award was to have all it's Patrols win the Patrol award. We did not do Patrol cooking, but that is offered as well.

Of all the camps I have been to over the past 10 years, I have never seen one so supportive of the Patrol method. We will be going back next year!

Just back from summer camp... had a communication issue I'd never experienced before. One of our new Scouts (April Webelos crossover - had been to Webelos camp twice) was very homesick and extremely nervous that his parents would die while he was at camp. He was pretty much ok during the day, but had a very hard time at night. His parents had given him a cell phone so he could text them to make sure they were ok. It apparently was supposed to be something he did only once or twice a day to assure himself mom and dad were ok. Unfortunately, he ended up staying up until all hours of the night sending a steam of text messages home. I did not even know this was going on until Mom picked him up and told me. Maybe it kept him going, but I tend to think it just delayed him getting over the hump of homesickness and finding he can be ok and even happy without mom and dad. Next year I think I'm going to have to be very clear with the parents that constant communication with home is not the best way to overcome homesickness.

As with others, we strongly discourage cell phones. They cause more trouble than they are worth. If they do choose to bring them, I don't to see any use at all. Active texters and phoners usually loose battery power mid-week anyway so have to do without.

My experience is that a phone call home by a homesick kid makes the situation much worse than it was already. Hearing mom slows the progress of independence and seems to make them want to go home all the more. We keep the new Scouts busy, busy, busy, so they're all tuckered out by taps. By Tuesday or Wednesday they have forgotten about being homesick and are having a blast with camp and the Troop.

Letters from home are the best thing! Everyone loves to hear his name called at mail call. My experience - now ten years of summer camps - is that this is the best way to communicate with home. I actively encourage parents to send letters, but not care packages. The Scouts will find plenty to rot their teeth at the Trading Post, and sometimes a box of candy or chips in a tent will bring in uninvited guests (like skunks!).

Nevertheless, I do like Herms "fill-in-the-blank" post card. Maybe I'll try it this year. What other things have you put on the post card?

Brady Sanders, VA

Rock Enon, VA

Spencer, MD

Sinequipe, PA

Bashore, PA

We have recently started asking for $5/Scout for our longer weekend camping trips. This money is collected by the Treasurer and then distributed to drivers based on the # of axles. Anyone hauling a trailer (3 axles) gets double what a 2 axle driver gets. As a suburban driver who hauls 6 to 7 Scouts and a substantial trailer, this funds about 1/4 to 1/2 of my fuel costs.

Thanks sst3rd, that really is one of my concerns - getting the adult leadersip stuck with an obligation, and then leaving an impression in the community that have not done what was expected of us.

I was talking to one of our Committee members, and this issue was brought up: "What would happen if a boy got hurt while working in someones yard? Would our BSA insurance kick in? Would the home owners insurance kick in? What if we did go to an elderly persons home and a Scout was seriously injured?" It's a concern, especially if a Patrol took on this service project and an adult leader was not present. A Scout getting hurt would be a lot trouble, red tape, and maybe even costly for this person. And what is the Scouts family did not have health insurance?

Any thoughts out there on when BSA insurance would be available and when it would not?

And again, ScoutNut, I agree fully with the spirit of your messages, and am not trying to down play the need to teach Scouts to be helpful and lend a hand when needed - I'm am just trying my best, as SM, to be prepared!

YIS,

Bill

kittle -

You say, "I have seen this NSP in action and I know what the boy didn't like. I have to agree with how he felt."

What do you mean? What was it about the NSP in action that he did not like (and you apparently do not like either)?

I'm about to accept 8 new crossover Scouts, and with our existing Patrols already full, we either do a complete remixing of the Patrols and form several new Patrols, or start a new NSP for the incoming. I'd like to know what problems you (and the Scout) see in the NSP you describe so I can avoid.

Yes, John-in-KC, I'd be delighted to have Scouts cheerfully serving the community and fostering an environment of service in the Troop. But I'm also trying to be realistic - we already have a very active program in the Troop with camping trips 11 months out of the year, established Service Projects (spirng, summer, fall), summer camp, as well as Eagle Projects. Can Scouts who are already committed to sports and band and other school and family activites really handle taking on a yard work commitment in addition to everything else?

Plus, once we help out little old lady A, how do we not turn down little old ladies B - Z?

What kinds of service projects do you take on in your Troop? Does your Troop have a policy regarding service projects done for individuals vs. the community?

Well, I agree with ScoutNut and jr56 in theory, and yes, the Scouts in the Troop need to be part of the decision making, but as SM I need to carefully consider what if brought forward to the Troop for decision making. Part of my concern is setting a precedent of conducting a Troop Service Project for an individual rather than for the community. Once we agree to do this person, how can we turn down the next request to do yard work in a similar situation?

And yes, there may be some Scouts that may want to do this, and need the hours, but I am concerned that the adult leadership will end up being the ones to follow through on what the Troop has committed. We have four scheduled Troop Service Projects a year, and two or three others for Eagle Projects, so there is ample opportunity for Scouts to earn service hours. However, a number of Scouts miss these due to soccer, hockey, LaCrosse, band, homework, as well as family obligations.

How many Service Projects do your Troops take on in a given year? Also, do you have any policy of a Service Project being done for and individual vs. the community?

YIS,

Bill

During my first year as Scoutmaster I let a very homesick Scout call home on Monday evening because he "needed" to talk to his Mom. Worst thing I could have done! Despite preping his Mom, he melted into tears when he heard her voice, and then I heard her wail: "I miss you so much..." Well, that did it. The next day his brother came up and took him home.

Since then, I have a general policy (no absolutes Vicki!) not to allow phone calls home for homesickness. I intially focused on the sad Scout and worked to counsel him on getting over homesickness. But I have found it to be far better to have to the SPL and ASPLs work with the homesick Scouts and pull them into the fold of the Troop. This, more than anything else, has worked in helping cure homesickness and develops a very strong bond amoung the Scouts.

Does it alway work? No. Last year a Scout was miserable, and we worked to keep him at camp for the week. He seemed to get over much of his sadness on Wednesday, and seemed to have fun at Camp and Troop activities. But after camp he quit the Troop and his Mother reported that he did so because he had such a miserable time at camp. Not sure if letting him call home would have help or not, but it's always too bad to see some leave Scouting.

YIS,

Bill

The older Scouts in our Troop like to shower at least twice if not three times at summer camp, and give the younger boys no choice in following their lead. When it's shower time, it's shower time, and that's it. As Scoutmaster, I have never said a thing. If some in your Troop are not showering, you might speak to the SPL and other older Scouts before summer camp and encourage them to ensure that all in the Troop shower at least twice. Having the Scouts take the lead in this may be a better way to encourage cleanliness than orders from adults.

We have evolved a general policy in our Troop against bring canned soft drinks on camping trips due more than anyting else to economic reasons. Since the Scouts have to collect their own money and buy their own food, the have discovered that "Bug Juice" (kool-aid) is far less costly than even the cheapest canned soft drink. By drinking bug juice, then can spend more on bacon, eggs, meat, and the like! While the Scouts do drink hot chocolate (and thus the caffeine it contains) they simply do not have access to caffeine thus avoiding the problems described in previous messages.

Greetings All -

I got an email this morning from the Mother of a Scout in our Troop wondering if the Troop could help out an older woman who can no longer keep up on her yard work. The Mom wondered if the Troop could take this on as a Service Project. I get two or three of these kind of requests a year. Rarely are they a one-time deal, the requester expects the Troop to take over the yard work - summer mowing, fall leaf raking, bulb planting, snow shoveling, and general yard clean up - for this older person who is no longer able to do it.

The problem is, if I said yes to everyone of these requests, this is all our Troop would do - every weekend!! So, as a general policy, I have said no, and focused our Service Project work on either one-time or annual projects that clearly benefit the community as a whole rather than one person. It is not easy saying no however, as there is a real need for help, in each case the requestor is really counting on the Scouts to do the "Good Deed" thing and help those in the community. I am concerned that once we say yes to one yard work project, we will flooded with requests with other deserving cases. And then how do we choose? So, rather than say yes to one, I have said no to all.

I toss this log on the fire hoping for replies on how others deal with this issue...

YIS,

Bill

While we're on the subject, I'd like to pose the questions to all those experienced folk about what is best to eat at night to keep you warm. It was my understanding that meat or cheese were best, and while sugar and carbs might give a quick warm up, they do not have the long lasting warmth of meat and cheese.

Assuming the above, string cheese? Slim Jim's? Jerky?

Experience?

Opinions?

By the way, I'm not taking fat Scoutmasters here, but skinny Tenderfeet!

Just got back from a cold weather camp out. It was 9 when I got up one morning, 6 the next. It was cold! But I was nice and toasty in my sleeping bag (-15) on top of two REI themorest-like pads. I write to testify that less is indeed more I slept in nothing but a t-shirt and undies (both synthetic) and slept great. Now getting out of the sleeping bag in the morning was another story! However, some of my Scouts did the I slept in all the layers I brought thing and woke up cold, cold, cold! And per an earlier post, for the first time in my Scouting career, I too did the bottle rather than getting out of the tent to find a tree delux! It was interesting, despite opening the lower and upper vents in my tent (Tranga 2), the area above my head was covered with ice crystals the snowed down on my when I sat up to get up!

Now I just need to convince my Scouts that less really is more for our February camping trip!

The Scouts want to build a lashed bamboo sled this year for Klondike. Has anyone seen plans for such an animal? When I search the internet, I find a design with a 1967 date, but little else that looks like it could be adapted to bamboo.

If anyone has experience with a bamboo sled or know of some plans, I would greatly appreciate it!

YIS,

Bill

In the late Eighties I worked at the State Department in Washington, DC. This is a place that your show up in suit and tie every day. Since I was just starting out in my career, I was quite fastidious about how I looked. I recall having a "no pants" dream that entailed walking into a meeting to give a presentation. Then one day I was walking down one of the many maze-like hallways and saw walking toward me a young man wearing a suit coat, white shirt, tie, Mickey Mouse boxers, sox and shoes! No pants!! People were floored!!! He was walking with several other young men and looked resigned to his fate. I figured he must have lost a bet or something! Not something I will ever forget.

Thanks!!

Your replies to my question have cleared things up greatly!!

One related question - how is the Unit Commissioner selected? Is there a nomination process that originates at the Troop or District level? Or can anyone step forward and self-seek approval from the District?

Thanks!

Can one person be a Unit commissioner for a Pack and a Troop of the same number? Are these seperate positions? I note that the official BSA Guidance states: "Commissioners may be currently registered in only one commissioner position." However, we are have some debate regarding whether the Pack and Troop each require a seperate Unit Commissioner.

Thanks!!!