shortridge

* LNT Trainer courses - cost seems to range from $30 to $75, depending on the program. There may not be any scheduled in your area, so contact your State Advocate. www.lnt.org/training/trainercourses.php

* Try your state nature society - it's not just about nature. In Delaware, it offers a hands-on workshop specifically on fire-by-friction, as well as lots of outdoors environmental and identification classes just for adults (so you don't have to feel stupid when the 7th-graders know more than you do!). Cost is very reasonable around here.

* State parks often have low-cost kayak/paddling and fishing instruction.

* For Wilderness First Aid certs - which can be pricey direct from the Red Cross, if it's even available in your area - try contacting your council's outdoor programs department. There may be a local Scouter certified as an instructor who's willing to teach it for the cost of materials.

scotteng wrote: "You need a location, a shooting sports director(who can have all the other venues open too) and a rendezvous qualified range master."

I'm fairly certain NCS doesn't include throwing of either knives or axes in its curriculum for shooting sports directors, unless that's a new component.

Wilderness Survival

Pioneering

Hiking

Journalism

And be prepared to have long drawn-out discussions with leaders and parents who contend that ax-throwing breaks Totin' Chip rules (see: ax as plaything).

And if that happens and the Scout does not feel he met the project requirements, he can chalk it up as a learning experience about meddling adults and start over with another venture (assuming he has time left).

- Look for historic military uniforms for costume ideas - Revolutionary era, Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm...

- The folding-a-flag idea is great. Depending on what type of a float you have, you could have a small flagpole rigged up that the Scouts could take down/run up throughout the parade. You could also have historic American flags displayed.

When you're designing it, keep in mind the relevant G2SS info on floats and hayrides:

- Those persons riding, whether seated or standing, must be able to hold on to something stationary.

- Legs should not hang over the side.

My understanding is that LFL is not "Scouting," correct?

That would be still like asking a Scout troop to move an account to a 4-H group.

By "explorer group," do you mean a Boy Scouts of America co-ed group? They used to be Explorers, but now it's Venturing.

If that's the case, then there's no connection between Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts, and GS is under no obligation to transfer money.

Just spoke with a lady there who said they're accepting reservations through 2009, but closing after that.

That number for Philmont is old - the (505) area code has changed. The number that I found worked was (575) 376-2281.

Suspicious much?

Let me guess - you've had cases of 10-year-olds suddenly needing to pack shaving cream.

GW,

I don't believe that's the case anymore. I couldn't find a statement on the GSUSA Web site, but according to the site of the Girl Scouts of Southern Alabama:

"Adult men can volunteer in Girl Scouting in every capacity that women can. However, as one of the most valuable parts of a girls experience is gained through role modeling, each troop must have at least one female Leader."

It's my understanding that the other female leader has to be unrelated to the male, however.

If I were a betting man, I'd wager that this debate's occurred many times before, in various forms (women on camp staff, men in Girl Scouting, etc.) But here's my three cents (inflation, right?).

The "double standard" differs from place to place and person to person. It even persists in Boy Scouts in some locales. I know of some older Scouters who didn't believe that women should be members of the Order of the Arrow. And at the summer camp where I worked, there were more than a few Scoutmasters who looked askance at the woman who attended as an ASM with her son's troop.

I recently contacted the local SU to get information on Daisy troops in my area for next fall. There's a brownie/junior troop at my daughter's school, but no Daisies yet. The organizer sounded enthusiastic about the possibility, and promised to get me hooked up with training. So I'm optimistic, and really looking forward to seeing my daughter have an experience similar to the one that did so much for me.

Of course there are going to be stares, and comments. Just keep on showing up, and helping out, and being the best dad you can. There will still be some grumbles, just like there are still some (very few) old fogies who believe women shouldn't wear the Scoutmaster patch or receive the Vigil Honor.

For more info, Bob Prager is a dad involved in Girl Scouting, including leadership and training positions. See www.pragerfamily.net/index.html

What kinds of soap/cleaning products do y'all find work better/best for camping and backpacking? Campsuds? Dr. Bronner's? Another brand? Or do you just use water and a washcloth, and lick your plates clean?

[Edited: Agree with Nike's points on parent perspective. Makes my post redundant.](This message has been edited by shortridge)

Anyone in a patrol today would be too young to remember the G.I. Joe cartoons (they fought against Cobra, remember?), but with the live-action movie coming out next summer you could do some sort of riff on that.

The "Reconnect" site seems like an attempt to recruit more volunteers and raise money - kind of like my college alumni association, come to think of it.

The site is awful. It limits you to 250 characters, but doesn't provide a counter. And of the five links on the top, three are about donating money.

Hate to tell you this, but I think it may be a problem on your end. I'm using a high-speed connection at work (don't tell my boss), and the Crew Officers Orientation loads up and plays just fine. It's at http://www.scouting.org/applications/venturingcoo.aspx

The intro screen says you need Flash Player 8, downloadable from macromedia. If you're using dial-up, it needs a min. 56K modem.

The links to the resources - the PCI, etc. - all work fine, too.

"Tenure between ranks is 6 months for T-1-2, 12 months for S-L and 18+ for Eagle."

If I'm reading this right, to me, this is the second-most egregious item on this list. That means a Scout could not join at 15 and earn Eagle. The latest you could join is at 14. Ridiculous!

But the number one offender is the overall intense focus on Eagle achievement that this unit promotes. Earning Eagle is not the goal of the Scouting program. Each Scout has to bushwack his own path. If that means not earning Pioneering or never serving as a patrol leader, so be it!

"Boy-led" refers not just to leadership positions, but to a boy's own leadership of his Scouting journey. Eagle is an individual achievement. It's not a standard by which a troop is judged. It boggles my mind that a troop could operate like this with apparent impunity.

If I were taking over as SM, I'd trash everything.

The troop's had the same Scoutmaster for 34 years? That just might be the core of the problem. New blood can sometimes be a really good thing.

OK, I'm an old fogie. It's official.

Thanks for the insight and perspective!

Why would someone pretend to have served in the military when they didn't, inventing stories and a complete personal history out of whole cloth?

I guess it's the same kind of cracked-up mindset.

Maybe I'm just getting to be an official old fogie, but an OA event without service is missing something crucial. With a couple hundred people dedicated to service and camping gathered together at a council camp, why NOT do something to help?

I'm not criticizing, just puzzled about how and why things have changed in the last 10 years I've been out of the program.

As a youth, my lodge's summer weekend was always a "triple threat" inductions/service/fellowship event. All the members busted their behinds during the day clearing trails, helping set up camp and doing maintenance work. In the evening, the new inductees joined their fellow Arrowmen for fellowship and relaxation - we had a patch auction, ice cream social, Q&A sessions, trivia games, etc. It wasn't a mutally exclusive thing, and the service was a great uniter.

I've never heard of such an event, but it sounds pretty neat. Was it an overnight campout? What kind of activities were there?

It's especially neat that the lodge ran it.

Sounds like a great opportunity to "sell" the Webelos and parents on the virtue and value of Boy Scout camp next year. Yet you don't want it to be too much of a blatant sales pitch (boring! :-) ).

The trick would seem to be balancing the activities - you don't want the standard boring Cub stuff that they've been doing for several years, but you also don't want to do too much Boy Scout-level stuff. As with a lot of things in Webelos, it's a very fine line to walk.

Correct, the SCF or designee approves all adult nominations. But this rule doesn't create qualifications for individual membership - it imposes an additional requirement on units at the start of the process.

For induction, those who know you best selected you. This flies in the face of that.

Says survival needs are capable of being listed in a fixed priority with no reference whatsoever to the facts of the emergency. Boat sinking? First Aid first! Start a fire before signaling that other boat. Ask any 11-year-old.

With respect, that is clearly a gross oversimplification of how the priorities for survival should be applied.

Their main goal, as I see it, is to have Scouts recognize that in most situations, these are the order in which you need to do things. Positive mental attitude is at the top to make Scouts understand that keeping their wits about them and consciously fighting panic and rash action is critical. Food, which most not schooled in survival techniques might put near the top, is last, and for very good reason. You have to adjust the others to fit the situation, which I would hope most reasonable people would find pretty obvious.

Ignores the causes of 50% of all wilderness deaths - falls and heart attacks. (No worry about heart attacks? No adults along with the Scouts? They are issued at least two adults. Are they to return the adults in good shape after the trek?)

So let's require CPR certification of all Scouts for rank advancement or renewal of membership. Seriously, let's! I'd be hugely in favor of that.

IMHO, if the OA has an established, written policy, it has to follow it.

The only exception would be if an exception were written in to the policy - along the lines of "The Supreme Chief of the Fire may impose additional requirements or waive requirements for XXXX at his or her discretion."

Even the SCF has to follow the rules except in extreme circumstances, or what would be the point of having them?