red feather

littlebillie, right on! Remember also: 'If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him keep step to the music he hears, however measured or far away.' Thoreau yis

OGE, I bow three time in your direction. ( hope you have dug yourself out, but as a scouter I don't think a 'little' snow is too much of a problem) Yes, the memories of adults who were scouts are very important, I have many good ones and some not so good but that is part of it (d--- it was cold,long, not good tasting,etc.etc.) I hope that I have instilled memories into the scouts that I have had the honor to work with. It is part of the job. To repeat what was said in an earlier post, I looked at a troop roster from some short years back and was stunned that half of the scouts had earned their Eagle. Are we a advancement college? By no means!!! The scouts did it themselves, with guidance from the leaders yes, but it was what was put forth in front of them as what was expected. Expectations. If the bar is lowered that is what is accomplished. If the bar is raised then stand back and be surprised as to what the boys can accomplish. In the council I am in we have a program called Mic-O-Say that keeps the boys acitve and wanting to advance. This program is similar to OA but is local and is very successful. To be on staff it helps greatly to be an Eagle Scout. ( they turn scouts away because of the number of applicants) If more is expected then the scouts will expect more and accomplish the goals set in front of them. I am not a hard-liner. Scout run yes!!! My job on overnights is to make sure my coffee is hot, my recliner of many colors is dangerous territory for scouts to sit in, the forest is in the same condition we found it, and we leave nobody behind. Rules, rules, rules. Yes they are to be followed. But not in lock step, beware of the Nimby syndrom. (happened here recently, sad). The scouts are what matter if it takes bending to work with the scout then yes by all means. Provide possibly the one thing that may be the turning point in a young mans life. Soap box. Sorry. OGE, thank-you. yis

Prayers and hopes for a speedy recovey.

Welcome to the campfire. Mostly what an Eagle Scout gets is the satisfaction of earning the top award of scouting. Some troops arrange certificates, memorial statements etc for the scout. Anything else is dependent on the council or what has been planned for the scout. much fortune on the trail yis

What a can of worms!! Remember there is the right way, the wrong way, and the way it gets done. Do what is best for the boys, within the program, and try to stay under the radar. May be simplistic, but I think you will understand. Good luck! yis

Interviewing for adult participation???? Most troops that I know of are crying for more parental, or guardian participation. Parents are always welcome to be involved with the understanding that the trained leaders may override what the parent may think. Unless the parent is trained and registered. Some of the best overnights have been with an over abundance of adults on the trip. Some of these trips are proof ( at least in the eyes of the boys) that the adults are indeed Crak'd Pots. (the leaders patrol name) The troop you mentioned is missing out on a wealth of knowledge and info available. Is this a large troop with lots of leaders? Limiting parent or guardian activity is not right. The more the merrier. Scout troops can always find more slots for interested leaders. yis

Boundary waters in Canada. Our troop does this every 2-3 years and the boys always enjoy. (dads do too) There are several good outfitters. If you like I can find out who we have used for several years. yis

Waterproof boots, nylon outer pants, unless snow is wet and slushy, then waterproof outer pants with a thermal layer or two underneath. I prefer polypropylene unders. Good wicking action. Waterproof gloves and good head gear. Extra gear if thought to be needed. Push the idea that a scout is prepared. Chemical heat packs are good to. As far as the tent is concerned, set the example and explain why a gap is left at the top. Most scouts will pick up on the idea. As far as drying, cotton will be a lost cause unless you set up a fire with a clothesline close but you will find that the scouts will soak cotton faster than you can dry it. Nylon dries fast. LV, got any ideas? yis

Been there, done that. We have 'threatened a drive by ceremony' to a number of scouts who have earned their Eagle. Seems that scouts who earn their Eagle are the ones who are very acitve and busy in their lives and finding time to have a ceremony falls to the side. As a parent of two Eagles, one who earned it at 16 and was 19 before he finally had a ceremony ( in conjunction with another Eagle who was age 20 by the time it came about and planned by the other scout) I understand the frustration. My other son is so busy with school that it will be middle to the end of March before any time comes possible. We have had Eagle presented at court of honors, troop meetings, etc. etc. One thing you might mention to the scout is that the ceremony is not all about the scout receiving the award, but also a recognition and thanks to all of those who helped them get there. Time spent at the store getting the patrol food, driving to the overnights, badge counselors, meetings and the nights spent sleeping on the ground to participate in the scouting experience. My oldest son had his grandpa present his Eagle to him. A special moment. I was Master of Ceremony. A special moment. The presentation of the Eagle is a recogniton of the scout and also the recognition of those who helped. yis

The squat plastic koolaid or similar powdered drinks container makes a excellent first aid kit or survival container. These are the ones that are half to 3/4 the size of a small coffee can. These containers are waterproof and unless packed too full will float. They are also usually a bright color and easy to spot. The ones I use have white tops that take permament marker information very well. yis

I think you will find a common thread in the posts of this thread. It is the boys that provide the recharge. Watching young, bumbling, stumbling first year scouts grow and mature in scouting until the proud day that one of 'your' scouts stands proud and tall at his Eagle Ceremony, HAS to recharge you. yis

Whole hearted ditto to all of the above. yis

Welcome to the campfire. When I was a scout many moons ago the troop I was with handed out beads to the scouts who participated in troop and scouting activities. Differnet colors and types of beads indicated the type of activiy. Ex: white for snow, blue for below 32deg. f, black for rain, green for fair weather, red for summer camp. One of my tickets was to introduce this into the troop I am with as a scouter. The boys enjoy wearing them as it shows how active they are and what types of trips they have been on. We now pass out canoes for floats, boots for hikes and skillets or ovens for doing good when they cook on these trips. I still wear mine from when I was young and enjoy adding them on still. Also I look back at the stories the beads tell and remember. yis

Welcome to the campfire. Couple of ideas come to mind. One would be have a fire building game. Maybe limited to one match, or no matches but using alternate fire starting methods (sparkers, steel wool and 9 volt battery, magnifying glass, etc.) Another would be a demonstation of these methods including the making of char cloth (use a metal altoid box or similar with a 1/8 inch hole the top, and 2 by 2 inch pieces of denim. Heat box on stove or coals until the box stops smoking) Possibly a game in which each patrol has to lash up cooking utensils and stands. Best one wins. Utensilless cooking is always good, but may take up more time than you have available. But stay away from easy foods, open can and cook, hotdogs, etc. Maybe just a planning session by each patrol to come up with rosters, menus, and recipes for the next overnight. Best planning gets award and the patrol that performs best on the overnight wins contest. Just thoughts yis

Hearts and prayers go out to the brave men and women lost while expanding the world we live in. May their families find comfort and grace with our prayers. Gods blessing to all.

"Eagle factory" Interesting term, some troops that I know of turn out Eagles 4-5 at a time. Knowing some of these scouts their scouting skills are sometimes good and sometimes not so good. Had a look at at an old troop roster and was surprised when the names were looked at the 21 out of the 43 boys in the troop at the time had earned their Eagle. Set me to thinking. We are a boy led troop with a adult umbrella and cushion. The boys learn cooking, camping, survival skills, and all of the rest of the skills that scouting is known for. But they earned the badges needed because it was part of the program. Yes, we had merit badges as part of the troop meeting on occasion when it was beneficial to the counselor to do so ( at their request) and was of a quality that nothing was lost in the earning of the badge this way. The rest of the badges were earned by the scouts themselves on their own (and parents) time. I guess that with the percentage of Eagles of that group we could be called a factory, but it is our scouts having pride in being scouts that have made it so. Example of quality of scouting. Recent band trip out of town and overnight, a band member got sick. Who stepped up to help? Three band members who are Eagles from our troop.They comforted the member and got assistance. No one else. Looking at who puts in extra time to put away equipment it is the same Eagles and other scouts in the band who do it. Given the chance the boys will amaze us, if we let them. Dutch, if you want the program to change, dive in. The troop I am in was not the troop I started with. Same number, different attitude. Others may follow your lead or attitude. But you will not know unless it is tried. Rememeber, 'lead, follow or get out of the way.' Soap box just broke. yis

I find that merit badge troops are taking the easy way to do 'scouting'. It seems that success is measured in the 'ticket punch' syndrome. Sad, sad, sad. Teaching the concepts of scouting is hard work. Standing back to let the scouts make mistakes and then try to guide them into the learning process of what they did and how to avoid the issue in the future is not easy. But it is what we have to do. Try to find a troop that teaches proper cooking, knots, and camping skills and I think that you will find a troop that views merit badges as they should. Skills that the scout will learn from as the SCOUT does the badges. Good luck on your search. yis

How old is your son? What rank and how long has he been in scouting? One solution might be have hem do a merit badge with another scout, this might ease him into the merit badge process. yis

BW is right on. Also seems that your adult leaders haven't quite got the program figured out. I am a TC member but am active in the troop also. When we have a new SPL I let them know that I will back them up in front of the troop but may have 'words' with them in private. (following two deep leadership) One of the things that we do is let new scouts know that the SPL speaks with the same authority as an adult leader. Dissing the SPL is the same as dissing me. If a scout has an issue with instructions or suggestions they are free to come to their PL and the PL can go to the SPL or if need be the adult mentor for that patrol. We follow a 'chain of command' structure. SM, ASM, SPL, ASPL, PL, ASPL. This works very well and also teaches a lesson for life. If you were my troops SPL, I would let you know that one of your jobs is to try to make sure that I have a pleasant meeting and if on an overnight that I can drink my coffee with outside bothers. Of course this is will a grin and wink. New scouts and those you have not learned the lesson tend to not follow the SPL as if they were an adult leader. Your leaders hopefully will see this and let the scouts that you are the boys leader. One of my 'jobs' in the troop is the 'enforcer', the boys believe that I am very strict and am in general very grumpy or at times can become that way. The ones who cause the trouble soon learn that it is much more fun to follow the SPL than to deal with me. (I really am just a teddy bear at heart, a 6'6 and 250 lb teddy) Realized I am rambling but I think the gist of what I want to say is here. Welocme to the campfire and keep posting. yis

Good to ya! I feel an eagle project coming on. yis

Not native american but check out macscouter.com cooking sub page. Great recipes. Also search for the Old Geezer Cook Book. Very good. yis

Looking for a source for the poly neck gaiters. Any ideas? yis

Okay, I'll try one more time. Recent threads generate over a hundred responses in just a few days. A new one BSA is dying talks about the perception of scouts and scouting. I want to continue this thread to show that there is a parts of scouting that have value and one of them is campin, cookin, etc. skills that the scouts learn. I noticed that I said a typical green can holds two cups of water. Oops, a typical green bean can... Just enough for most dehydrated meals. KS keep em coming. Many things learned in the back 40 is very good. I remember using c-ration peanut butter with bug juice as a fuel source to heat food. I was able to use my learned scouting skills to create a foil dinner in Europe while driving convoy duty on the engine of my duece and a half. Any tin can suggestions?I have had good luck with tin can ovens. And have used a hanger to create a handle that clips onto a tin can to use as a coffee cup. When using rope to hang a tarp or to create an emergency shelter that come down to the tarp, tie a string to that rope to create a drip line. this prevents most of the moisture reaching the tarp. To get a good spark from the scouting fire starter use a small section of hacksaw. Creates a shower of sparks. Join in and show what we can do. yis

Don't you dare. This forum is not what scouting is about. Scouting is for the boys that join, not the attitudes and beliefs of those who post here. You have too much to teach those 'younger and weaker' to walk away because of the yahoos that spout here. Do not abandon the scouts in your area that can and will benefit from your knowledge. Stay in scouting and stay the course. I have learned much from your postings and really hope that I will have the chance to learn more. As I have learned, as leaders we cannot walk in lockstep with strictly viewed policy. We analyze, adapt, and overcome each troop meeting as it happens. You have too much to teach and hopefully to learn. It seems to me that you have experienced frustration either with the BSA or opinions expressed on this forum. Frustration is difficult and it comes from a lack of power to control or change aspects of our lives. We can as individuals only control and contribute in a small and unique way. I think you have a great deal to offer in knowledge and experience. And if you can contribute to the growth of one more boy into manhood, if you are willing to share your knowledge to those of us who are tolerant and willing to learn, then you have more influence than you may realize. Basically, I ask you to throw out the bathwater...and keep the scout. Please yis

"Into the valley rode the six hundred.... cannons to the left .. cannons to the right." Welcome to my campfire anytime. "And by mutual respect for each other, tolerance and standing on common ground" yis