Prairie_Scouter

Ed, Unless you're a Biblical literalist, don't you think it's possible to reconcile the theory of evolution with many religious beliefs?

Well, as someone above said, I think we might have wrung this one out, at least as far as the original question is concerned. While you're, of course, welcome to continue on, I want to thank everyone for their participation in this thread. I don't know that we reached any sort of conclusions, really, but the conversation has been for the most part civil, and certainly interesting. And with that, I'm gonna hit the sack. 'Night all.

I think I'd agree with NJ on this one. I admit that I skirt around the edges of a policy I don't agree with so that my sons can take advantage of what is otherwise an excellent program. "Don't ask, don't tell" works for me right now for that reason. If BSA was to make a more stark statement such as NJ suggests, I'd be in a more difficult position, and I suppose, would have to become just "Prairie". As NJ said also, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen.

Thanks, Hunt. A great post, and I think you're on to something there in regards to the local opinions differing. There's an old saying that "all politics are local". So, it's quite possible, people in deeply conservative states may think that the BSA's "don't ask, don't tell" policy may be just awful, the middling states might think it's just fine, and the decidedly liberal states may think that it doesn't go nearly far enough. That's a very interesting thought and one that might lead people to have differing views on what might be considered sectarian or not. As I said earlier, one o

OGE, Way OT, but am I as a typical user allowed to edit my posts? I can't find anything in the FAQ about editing. Can you point me the right way? Help!?

OGE, You're absolutely right, neither major party is without fault these days. I thought of my comment and typed it, thinking it was kind of funny. The second line, after the smiley, was sort of a "but, you know...." ironical kind of statement. But, you're right, I've been trying to manage the discussion as best I could to keep it on track, and then went and threw something in there myself. As my daughter would say, "my bad". I should edit that out. Never tried that before; think I'll give it a try

Yeah, I think I'd agree with those who write that you should kind of tread lightly here. As the new CC, you could approach the DL and say that your trying to visit all of the dens to see how they do things, just as general background. That gets you in the door without any worry about whether you might be stepping on toes; and, it's really not a bad idea to visit your dens occasionally to see how they're doing. If you think that they're not actually meeting the requirements, your CM should be the one to help you there. If they're actually doing the requirements, and just doing them really fa

Trevorum, I can't speak to the liability issue directly; haven't been confronted by this exact situation. Your council can give the correct answer and you really should check with them. Regards credit for requirements before they sign up, I'd love say "yes" because it seems like good intent is there, but I think I'd have to say "no" if it was in my troop. There will be other campouts he can get credit for, and he'll have a good time anyway. If you stretch the rules too much in this area, you might open a can of worms for yourself, including the "I was ALMOST done with my Eagle pro

Well, first, I want to thank everyone for their comments to this point. I don't know that there are any conclusions to be made, but here are a couple of observations..... There seem to be opinions on a variety of reasons why BSA excludes homosexuals. A few feel it is a YP issue, and support this for differing reasons. YP, I believe, deals mostly with objective physical danger (or the psychological dangers in child abuse) to the Scout; I don't know that homosexuals have been shown to be any more a physical danger to Scouts than anyone else. That remains to be seen, I guess. The

Rooster, Thanks for you heartfelt comments, but this thread isn't a "debate about the merits of same sex love". This thread was started to discuss whether or not BSA is a non-sectarian organization, and if so, should its policies be based on non-sectarian views, rather than religious views. fgoodwin, Sorry I misinterpreted your comment. I agree that pederasts are a subset of homosexuals. They are a subset of heterosexuals as well.

Remember, my original question wasn't whether or not gays should be in Scouting. My question posed that if BSA is a non-sectarian organization, should its policies be base on non-sectarian views, and if that's the case, is it possible to make a non-sectarian case against participation of gays. Snake Eater... The comment in the op-ed piece about the Bible being interpreted to fit particular view wasn't make specifically about gays. It was a general view that probably has some validity to it. Slavery was justified, in part, by qouting the Bible. The question also wasn't whether BS

Hi vrooman, Although I haven't seen much of this, I've seen this problem more in Cub Scouts than in Boy Scouts, but I suppose it does exist. There are troops that don't allow a parent ASM to sign off their own Scout's requirements. In our troop, we ask the parent ASMs to encourage their Scouts to work with senior scouts and ASMs, but we don't prohibit them from signing off. I'd get a little worried if they're signing off EVERYTHING, tho. Personally, I think that if a parent is signing off their son's work and they don't really meet the requirement (and the parent knows this), they are

OGE, Thanks for you comments. I agree, I didn't initiate this thread to start a flamewar. Just starting a discussion, and not a discussion of whether gays in Scouting is right or wrong. Simply a question of...if BSA is nonsectarian, should their policies be based on non-religious precepts, and if so, how do you form a policy on gays without invoking religious beliefs that are sectarian? That's all. I'll try to keep things on topic, but as long as people are polite, all comments are welcome. CA, Thanks. I imagine you might have been responding to something that Bob wrote, but I've

Well, we should remember that the original question wasn't "should BSA allow girls?", it was,"What would happen if BSA did allow girls?" I guess I have more faith in our young adults than some posters here. There seems to be some feeling that if you mix girls and boys together then sexual situations are inevitable, as if as soon as you mix sexes, they'll be jumping on the picnic tables and "doing it" with abandon. Ain't gonna happen here any more than it does in real life. BSA already has co-ed activities in the Venture program. I haven't heard of any problems there. I thi

First, I guess we're making the assumption that the original post was from a Scout. If the backroom being described is such that they were out of view of others, than it is a YP violation. If, however, the backroom is such that they were in view of the other members of the troop meeting, than it's not a YP problem any more than a Scoutmaster conference would be. Second, the description of the discussion would seem to be contrary to the philosophy of a boy-led unit. The Scouts should never be afraid to come forward with what they think is useful information, and even if the SM dis

This question was prompted by an op-ed piece that appeared in the Chicago Tribune this past weekend. The opinion of the author was that the Bible has been used by many special interest groups to further their unique agendas by interpreting the Bible in ways that are favorable to their views. This got me to thinking about Scouting. Scouting is supposed to be nonsectarian in its views. At least, I think that that's true. But, that will be our first question. Various definitions I've seen refer to nonsectarian as meaning "not pertaining to a single religious view' or "all-compassing" (t

I think the reality of "who works for who" is just a bit grey. The text of the leader guide says that the Scoutmaster and Committee Chair/Committee work as a team, but the structure chart of the Troop as published in the leader guide shows the Scoutmaster below the CC/Committee. On an everyday basis, tho, I think that the SM and CC do work as a team.

Hi Again, Crazymomo, Having a few minutes before bedtime, I pulled out my old leader guide to check a couple of things..... The CM and CC, according to the leader book, actually share leadership of the pack, although if you look at the Pack Structure chart in the book, it clearly shows the Pack Committee being above the Cubmaster, so it's a little unclear. What I've seen many times is that the CM runs the Scout related activities, and the CC runs the business activities. Everyone attends the committee meetings, of course, but I was always told that the CM was not actually a voting

I've known several packs, and I don't know of any that use individual accounts like your unit does. That happens in Boy Scouts to some extent depending on how the Troop is set up, but I don't think that that's normal for Cubs. I don't think there's any rule against doing it that way, tho. Usually, the fundraisers in Cubs are done to finance the Pack's activities, not the individual dens or Scouts. Normally, you'll see something like the popcorn sale be used to finance Pack general expenses, like advancement awards, flags, outings, etc. The dens would charge their own dues for their act

Crazymomo, Well, regards the CM not recognizing the relative position of the CC, they really don't have any choice. That's the way BSA has laid out the positions. CC runs the Pack with the Pack Committee, which the CM is not a part of. (I'm pretty sure that's true, but check the leader guide). A polite way to deal with this might be look around in the Scout literature. There might be some mention of suggested tenures. I'm pretty sure I've seen renewals every year mentioned somewhere. Beyond that, fill your committee with good people. Let the committee as a group discuss the si

t487, Just in regards to your question about parents participating, there is a section in the Guide to Safe Scouting, I think the area about "secret organizations" that says that all Scout activities are open to observation by the parents. Regards the length of camps for younger Scouts, I don't remember the specific rules and don't have them right in front of me, but Scouts normally start camping with their units as Webelos Scouts, and those outings are usually 1 or 2 nights. I think there is also a Resident Camp that Webelos Scouts can go to that runs longer, but I'm not entirely su

Thanks for the information. Sounds like it could be a very interesting discussion.

Maybe they won't say because, as we know from their ads, "What happens in Vegas, Stays in Vegas."

Bob, Rather than try to respond, I'm just going to say that since I can't seem to have a pleasant discussion with you, I'm going to take the "ignore this user" forum option. I'm sure that others have interesting discussions with you, but I seem to be unable to. This seems to me to be the best way to retain my own enjoyment of the forums.

Tort, 80 degrees? Our version of "balmy" in the Windy City today is 43, windy, and raining. I think moving some hills down to Houston would be a great Eagle project, don't you? I don't think the ACLU would have too much trouble with that....... (he said in a faint attempt to give the illusion of being on topic)