Prairie_Scouter

Agree with the others. We require payment for an outing before we start planning for the shopping, so we can figure out how much to buy, so that's about a week before the event. No refunds once the shopping is done, but if a Scout has a legitimate reason to drop out of a trip, then we'll do what we can to refund unspent funds from their outing fee. How that plays into other non-outing responsibilities is another story. Getting people to sign up for car washes and other fund raisers is sometimes a hassle. Some don't think it's worth the effort, and in some cases, we've found that they have a point. We've had car washes where the Scouts work half a day and end up adding 10 bucks to their Scout account; hardly worth the effort, although you still like to get the guys participating from the aspect of helping the troop. And, as someone said, you get to know which families are likely to bail at the last second, and plan around them. So, yeah, it's an ongoing issue. Seems everyone I talk to has the same challenges.

Eamonn, Being able to use AA's will make life easier on an outing. Just take a bunch of spares. Other than that, I'd say take a few mid-sized memory sticks (gives you some safety in the remote possibility that you have a stick fail; I've been using the Sony sticks and 3rd parties for 5 years and haven't had a failure), and do some in camera editing at the end of the day, and you should have room for lots of shots. Just remember that if you lower resolution to increase capacity, the quality of the pictures will be diminished somewhat, but whether that's an issue or not really depends on what you're going to do with them.

Thanks to those who posted info on the changes in the 70's in response to my question. Interesting, and provides a good description, as another poster said, of what can happen if you try to make dramatic changes without a sensible plan. Didn't the "gay issue" first rear it's head in something like 1978? Makes you wonder if it might have been part of some sort of backlash against the changes that had been made earlier in the decade and were, at about that time, being dismantled. Anyway, back OT, I kinda like what British Scouting has done with the Scout Law. The wording makes it something you can really think about, rather than be a list that is sometimes just rambled through at the beginning of a troop meeting. Unfortunately, right now, US Scouting might have a problem with being a part the "world-wide family of Scouts" given our different interpretation of some aspects of Scouting, but it gives us something to strive for, anyway.

I think it'd be great to get more support from our local Council and District in ways that help us provide a better program. But, more often than not, I'm told that our Council and District don't have more events because they have a hard time getting people to run them. One thing I see is that kids get into some programs at a very early age, so say, at the 1st grade level, you'll see boys starting to sign up for sports programs that compete with Scouting. So, it becomes a matter of why those programs do a better job of drawing youth than Scouting does. I suspect a certain amount of it is the parents. If a parent wasn't a Scout as a youth, it may be harder for them to see the "activity value" of the Scouting program vs something else. I don't think we should be discouraging boys from picking Scouting over baseball or soccer or whatever, but I'd like to see Scouting activities be the ones that get picked when there's a scheduling conflict. Especially once you get into high school, the sports programs become pretty demanding, and if you're not there for every practice and game, you likely won't play, so that makes it more difficult for Scouts when those sports are in season. I can understand the coaches wanting the boys available because they are covering new skills at each practice. Problem is, many times the same thing is true in the Troop. And, a certain amount of it is kids today seem to be overscheduled much more than in the past, which aggravates the scheduling conflicts. I know kids who eat their dinner in their vans as they drive from one activity to another every day. You would think that at some point, the parents would start to say "no". Kids that stay in Scouting for a little while can get to do some pretty cool stuff. Recently, we were fortunate enough to go to Seabase and spend a week aboard a tall ship. Where else are you going to get the opportunity to do something like that? Sorry, a lot of random thoughts today. But, there's something about getting the boys interested early, and keeping them interested for the long term. But, we also have to realize that the constant conflicts are going to be a fact of life, and we have to figure out how to deal with them while still delivering a quality, and just as importantly, fun program. And, getting the word out that the program is there and is, in fact, pretty cool!

Ok, so we don't actually put our Scouts in the trailer We've installed a set of shelves on each side of the trailer that run about 3/4 of the length of the trailer. The shelves are wide enough to hold things like dutch ovens, stoves, and the like. They're also the same width as our patrol box, so it just slides underneath the shelves. We use 2 kinds of totes. We use the regular Rubbermaid kind of normal outing supplies. We have 2 better totes that are water tight that we use to store long term food items that will get stored in the closet of our CO in the off season. That way, no worries about water damage or "critters". The front of the trailer gets odd-sized items and totes fit right down the aisle. P-gear is stacked on top of all that.

Eamonn, 2 things to think about. Batteries and storage. You'll either have to take along extra batteries or find a way to charge the one you've got. The solar powered chargers are supposed to work ok (assuming it's sunny, of course ), and car converter will work as well, but make sure the converter is a match with your charger, otherwise you could fry it. Regards storage, you either download your card to some other storage medium, or you take multiple cards. I've bought both computer memory and camera storage from crucial.com, and they have very good prices as well as "not junk" merchandise. You can increase capacity by changing the resolution on your pictures, and storing as jpeg rather than "raw" format. That's sort of a personal decision based on how you're going to use the pictures. If you know for a fact that you'll never enlarge the pictures very much, you can lower the resolution somewhat, and jpeg will be ok. If you think you might enlarge some pictures for prints larger than, say, 8x10, you need to stay at the hightest resolution of your camera. Remember that jpeg is what's known as a "lossy" format, that is, the compression of the image for jpeg does lose some picture data. This starts to come into play if you save the same image multiple times; each save will recompress the image, losing more data. Raw format is the camera's native storage format. It retains all of the picture data, as well as some control data that can be used later if you manipulate the images in something like Photoshop. You can't view a "raw" image directly. You have to use a converter to put it into some other standard format. The cameras usually come with this software, and many image correction programs, like Photoshop, have converters built-in. Lastly, you can increase your picture capacity by just doing some "in camera" editing at the end of each day. If you throw away the shots that just didn't turn out, you can increase your capacity a bit.

If you liked DaVince Code, you'd probably like his other books as well. I can highly recommend "Angels and Demons", his book immediately before DaVinci Code. He has published 2 other books as well, "Digital Fortress" and "Deception Point". They are earlier works, but still fun reads. Of course, a whole cottage industry has sprung up around "DaVinci Code", written by folks who seem to have forgotten that it is a work of fiction . Some of those are actually pretty interesting (although the titles escape me right now), while some are just silly. Also, if you happen to be interested in astronomy at all (or just about the reality of working in science), I would HIGHLY recommend a book called "First Light" by Richard Preston. It's about the guys who work at the Mt Palomar observatory. Sounds dry, but the story is really well told about the people as well as their work. Preston has also written some very good techno-scary books, including The Hot Zone, The Cobra Event, and The Demon in the Freezer. Oh, in regards to Palomar, if you're into history, there's a book called The Perfect Machine, which is about the building of the Palomar Observatory. Very good read about the politics and personalities of the rich and famous in the early 1900's. Lastly, another history book, this one by Stephen Ambrose called Nothing Like It In the World, about the building of the transcontinental railroad. A long, but very interesting read. They're all available in paperback at this time.

Well, I'd say I'd agree with all that, with a couple of additional thoughts. First, if the compensation for the Scout Professionals is structured in such a way that membership numbers are the overriding factor in their pay, then there is going to be some level of tempting to "play the numbers", and some small number of professionals will take advantage of that. You fix that by either having a rigorous internal auditing procedure, or you change the pay incentives to dis-incent people from doing that. If Scouting intends to portray itself as a squeakly clean organization, then they can't afford to have any hint of scandal associated with it. This would seem to indicate a zero tolerance for any playing with the business side of Scouting, and rock solid verification procedures that will quickly catch any problems, along with policies to correct those situations quickly and effectively. Second. Training certainly helps, but if a person doesn't have the aptitude to lead, or doesn't have the patience to deal with growing kids, training is only going to help to some extent. No amount of training is going to turn a total introvert into a successful Scout leader. Training can teach you how to run a successful program, but it's not going to change a person's personality. Having said that, there are plenty of ways that people can help out, and not all of them require in depth contact with the Scouts. I agree that it'd be better if we had more raw numbers to work with (but then, I'm trained as engineer; to paraphrase Will Rogers, "I've never met a number I didn't like" ); maybe we do and I'm just not aware of where they are. *IF* you can be sure that the numbers are reliable, then they can be used as another tool in identifying successful programs. Their traits can then be studied to see if they are unique to that program, or something that can be moved to other, less successful, programs. One interesting thing I've been noodling over for some time is the idea that Scouting is losing members, or not getting them in the first place, because there are so many other activities available to boys now. I hear that quite a bit. But, why is that, do you suppose? That is, why is it that boys pick other activities over Scouting? When push comes to shove, why is it that when there's a scheduling conflict, you more often than not see the Scouting activity being pre-empted by a baseball game, or soccer game, or whatever, rather than vice versa? Or, is that just my observations, and other have different experiences? But if it is in general true, what do we do about that?

We've taken a slightly different approach to packing our trailer. We pack our Scouts in the trailer and put the gear in our passenger vans. This makes the drive to the outing much more enjoyable/quiet for the leaders and makes the Scouts feel like they're on an amusement park ride. Usually, the trailer quiets down after the first hour or so, with only the occasional, "Hey, who farted?"

The history in our pack and troop is that we concentrated on the uniform shirt and neckerchief, the rest of the uniform being more or less optional. (It was basically just mandated as "neat and clean clothes"). I decided to go about figuring out a way to quietly increase uniform usage, because basically, teenagers will usually rebel against mandates. The trick to making it a positive experience is to make them think it's their idea . We do regular uniform inspections, but the inspections were based on the troop's own uniform standard. I decided to start using the BSA uniform inspection form. (We give away some little prizes occasionally to those getting the most uniform points, and I'm adding the patrol total to that competition as well). So, those who start coming in a more complete uniform have an incentive to do so, and by also starting the track the patrol points, there's some peer incentives as well. We just started doing this recently, so it's too soon to see if it will help or not, but I think it might just be a good approach that will get a positive response.

There will always be those in any organization, including BSA, that think that the status quo is just fine, and those who think that changes are needed. On both sides, you have people who are just trying to force their personal beliefs on everyone else, and those who act in what they believe to be the best interests of their organization. Organizations that are willing to hear opposing views, and give them an honest review to see if changes are needed or not, are the ones that will survive for the long term. Those that stagnate put themselves at risk of being marginalized to the point of irrelevence. That doesn't mean that change is always necessary, but it does mean that organizations need to be able to look at themselves in the mirror honestly, and be willing to make changes if necessary. Gays aren't prohibited from Scouting because of some "timeless value" that's being supported by the organization. It isn't written anywhere in the Scout Law or Oath. It is an interpretation of wording in the Scout Law or Oath, and interpretations should always be open to review. Rather than being subject to some subjective religious view, wouldn't it make more sense to view ANYONE's participation in Scouting in terms of Youth Protection? If someone can make an objective case that gays are a threat to the Scouts under our care, then fine, that's at least something that can be discussed rationally. Rather than taking the view of Rooster, which seems to be "it's our game, so if you don't like the rules, why don't you just go away?", I'd like to think that at least some people in Scouting want the organization to continue to be the best it can be, and would welcome these kinds of discussions. Right now, BSA is shielded by a Supreme Court decision that says it's a private club, but Supreme Courts change, and decisions change. Wouldn't it make more sense to address this now, rather than gamble that the Court will continue to agree with BSA? What happens if that decision changes and BSA is forced to change? Is everyone going go quit? Doesn't it make more sense to come to an agreement ourselves that we can all live with before something is forced on us? BSA shouldn't want to be seen as some "private club". It should be pushing it's message to as many people as possible, by welcoming as many people as it possibly can.

Hey, that kid is in MY troop, too I can't say I've had tons of success with my approach, and I'm still fine-tuning it, but here's what I'm trying to do. In the particular case of the Scout I'm working with, I came to the conclusion that many of his "excursions" came about because he didn't have enought structure, or responsibility, basically, something to keep him busy. So, under the guidance of one of my ASMs, I assigned the Scout to be one of our quartermasters (we have 2, not because we're very large, because we're not, but more to make sure we have a QM on every outing). I'm thinking that by making him responsible for our gear, and for making sure everything is where it's supposed to be, it'll straighten out his thinking a little bit. Being a QM, it's not enough to know "we've got pots"; you've got to know where they are and how many you're going to need. By having to deal with that level of detail, I'm hoping that it'll get him to thinking about his own p-gear (like remembering his rain gear), respecting the troop gear (tent poles are not Ninja fighting sticks), etc. We just starting doing this earlier in the spring, so it's too early to see if it's going to help him or not. So, that, and the usual correcting of errant behavior, and just as important, positive reinforcement when he does something positive. We'll have to see how it goes. As far as his relation with the other boys, the QM is kind of in the middle of a lot of things when we go on outings. If he's mentored well, the Scouts SHOULD come to see him as their "go to" guy when they need something, but a lot of that depends on the personalities involved, etc.

Eamonn, thanks for your post. You DO have a way with words. And thanks for the link; looks like kids having fun, just like kids everywhere. Madkins, I'd have to agree that on some issues of importance, BSA seems to be getting out of the mainstream. Some see that as a problem for BSA, while some wear it like a badge of honor. Personally, I don't think BSA can survive thinking that what worked in 1912 will work 100 years later in all cases. The trick is to retain the values that are truly "timeless", things like honesty and integrity, while discarding those values that were based on the views of the times. How you do that I'm not really sure. Could you expand a little on what happened in the 70's with Scouting that you noted in your post?

Coleman does have a 3 burner stove that's pretty massive if you're looking for something larger. It runs about $100, I think.

Well, it depends on whether you're looking for a portable grill or are actually looking for a portable stove. For general use, there are plenty of propane stoves that would fit the bill. It's all opinion based on experience, but I've used the Coleman stove and one from Sears, and they both survived pretty well for a number of years. If you're looking for a white gas stove, I'd go for the Coleman. I haven't even seen another manufacturer of white gas stoves for quite awhile. There are a number of models available, some that can burn multiple fuels. If you're really looking for a portable grill, about a year ago I picked up a Weber portable grill that runs off of propane welding cartridges that can be picked up at any hardware store. Kind of pricy at about $110, but it works really well (at least the few times I've had an opportunity to use it)

I applaud British Scouting, the home of the Scouting movement, for recognizing the diversity of belief in the world today within the Scouting movement, and making changes appropriate to reflecting that. This can only help the Scouting movement overall by making the organization more open to those of other beliefs and not only accepting, but actively encouraging those beliefs as a part of the Scouting movement. I can only hope that this openness spreads to U.S. Scouting as well.

We use a small ceremony that's been passed down to our troop and pack. We like to have everyone in the ceremony involved, so as we tell the story of the Flag, we cut it into a number of pieces, separating the stripes from each other and from the star field. We cut enough pieces so that everyone can have one, and then distribute them around our campfire. At the appointed time, each person, in turn, drops their piece into the fire. Once completely destroyed and the fire has cooled, we'll recover the grommets and save them.

One of those companies that makes motivational posters publishes a picture of a child with that saying underneath it. The title of the picture is "Priorities". I've got a copy at work and at home. I don't really need the reminder anymore, but it's still good to have it around. For me, my family is far and away my #1 priority; everything else, including Scouting (as heretical as it may sound) is a distant 2nd place.

OGE, Both parties are getting in the habit now of making outrageous statements, and I find it hard to get upset about any of it anymore because it's just entertainment; it's sole purpose is to get visibility. Both parties have their extreme elements, and I think that Dean's comment, if there's any validity to it all, was an assertion that the Republican party is being controlled by it's extreme right elements. I suppose there could be some truth to that; I don't know. I don't think he was trying to insult white christian males at all. Dean's job is to gather funds for the Democratic Party. At this point, the party needs to energize its members and Dean is doing that. No one in the Democratic Party will care if he offends Republicans with his comments. It will strictly be a matter of overall public opinion. If the general public starts to be offended by his comments (and at this point I think the general public just sees it as entertainment), at that point the Dems will either rein him in or replace him.

I don't think that we'll ever get to the point that BSA can create a program that can be run by virtually anyone of any skill level, nor, I think, would we want to. Now, that's different than educational approaches and resources. I worked as an industrial trainer for a couple of years, so while not an expert, I do know that different people learn different ways. So, BSA might consider providing training, and training materials, in different ways, such as those suggested by some of the posters here. Some of leadership is just personality. Some people have that charisma that draws the Scouts to them, and some don't, regardless of how much they might try. If a leader doesn't have the ability to present the program in an interesting way, I don't think it matters much how good the program is; the Scouts won't buy into it. And that's why it's such hard work to be a good, effective leader. Anyone can just read from the books, and follow it verbatim. Taking that same content and making it interesting for the Scouts is another story, I think. A poor leader can take the most fun activity and turn it into a dreary, awful task, while a good leader can turn a garbage pickup into a fun activity.

It never ceases to amaze me that, on a campout with a bunch of city kids who are normally too "cool" for such things while in the city, if you can get them to stop and sit down for a second, they can still get excited about little things like fireflies, the sounds of the night, and the stars in the sky.

Cubs, Nope, not saying I don't care what my kids think. On the other hand, I don't believe I should be telling them WHAT to think, at least not in all matters. I can explain to them what I believe, why I believe that, and hope that they will agree with me. Some things, such as legal behavior, of course, are not open to discussion, but I'm referring to things where there is a wide diversity of opinion and option. So, I'll explain to my kids why I believe there's nothing inherently wrong with gays, but also what, for example, the BSA stance is on gay participation. Now, while no one with a point of view can be completely objective, I'll still try to explain both sides of these kinds of issues to my kids and encourage them to learn more and form their own opinions. Will I try to steer them towards my point of view? Sure I will. But I do feel an obligation as a parent to let them know that there are other perspectives as well. My point was really that during their formative years, it's more important to "wire" them with the processes needed to be well-thinking adults than it is to push them in any particular direction, although I'll be doing that as well just as any parent will.

Ok, Rooster.... You're right, and maybe we should ask prospective leaders for their income tax returns to make sure that they haven't taken any "liberties" with their deductions, too. So, are you saying that gays allowed into Scouting would be "self-serving, deceitful, and desiring to abolish any standards for moral behavior"? You're expecting, what, gays in Scouting to come to meetings dressed in drag? That wouldn't be in keeping with the uniforming method, would it? Maybe starting orgies at campouts? BSA would probably have to add a section to the tour permit for that. Regards the last election, I could give you some reasons why "those rascals" got elected, but for the purposes of this thread, I'll just say that their election probably didn't have much to do with "moral authority".

Well, the research is pretty clear, if it's to be believed, that a person of Scout age is not "brain-mature" enough to be able to make sound decisions on the existence of God, proper sexual behavior, etc. At that point, I think I'll have to differ with CubsRgr8. Rather than re-inforcing my own belief system on my children, what I strive to do is mentor them on "how to think", that is, the process of making their own judgements, and then help them to make their own decisions as they mature. As they become old enough for these kinds of discussions, I always make a point of telling them that "this is what I think, but you'll have to make your own decisions on this as you get older". What a parent thinks about God or sexuality, etc, isn't really the point; they could, holy smokes, be "wrong".

You know, I used to try and figure out if I needed a permit for a given activity, but now, I just fill one out whenever we're not in our normal meeting place. It takes a couple of minutes to fill out and fax (and now that I have the handy dandy Troopmaster software, it might even get easier ), and then we're covered no matter what.