BDPT00

** Then you're clearly not on my training staff or one of my commissioners. If you're in a position to represent the BSA to other Scouts/Scouters, you should be in proper uniform. I won't mess with you if you're not one of mine, but I'll correct your uniform if you're in my charge.

BDPT00

Good advice, Twocubdad. It's more friendly and a lot longer, but the same message as the rest of us jackasses.

BDPT00

So ... when we break down the long answers (assuming a few things), iamcalvin, the answer is no, there is no written rule. I think the concern (assumption) we have is that you plan to take copies of letters from people nobody knows, or maybe hand the BOR an Insignia Guide and invite them to prove their position in an attempt to prove a point. I think the BOR pissed you off. I would feel the same. However, if I were sitting on that board, and I had issues with an attitude, the patch becomes the focal point for both sides of the argument, and I might do the same thing they did. You can win this battle, but these same people are the ones (most likely) who will be instrumental in assisting, monitoring, approving, and mentoring your quest for Eagle. Good luck with that. Closing in on Eagle can have a lot of speed-bumps. How high do you wnat them to be?

BDPT00

Hey, I've got a good one for ya, iamcalvin. You can go to the Scout Shop, and buy a Star rank pin. It's bigger than a mother's pin, and is made to be worn instead of a patch. Will that win the day for you? It'll take a little roadtrip, cost a little money, and you'll only wear it once, but hey .... how important is it to you to win this battle? If you really want to take it over the top, I'm sure there's a way you could sew that pin on your shirt. That'll teach 'em.

BDPT00

I love the replies thus far. It depends upon what you want. Do you want the next rank, or is it important to you to shove something where the sun don't shine? Both are acceptable. Which makes more sense? I know the request is very personal, and a lot depends upon how you were told (and by whom).

Here's another shot at answering a question with a question: If the teacher tells you to use black ink, and you continue to use blue, are you surprised when you don't get an A? Does it really matter? Depends on who's giving the grade, don't you think? Or would you rather take your fight to the school board to see if you can get the teacher fired?

It all depends on how cute you want to be.

Good luck.

BDPT00

That's correct. All one generally needs a compass for while orienteering is to orient the map. A thumb compass will do just fine.

BDPT00

"It's basically a very very small orienteering course"

The point was that using a compass on a football field isn't orienteering. Find a different word (try "compass course").

BDPT00

I don't need hat regulations quoted to me. I've read it before, but thanks.

What I was referring to was the "rule" you stated regarding wearing a Scouting related hat without a uniform. What did the quote have to do with that? Where did the rule come from?

BDPT00

I'd suggest changing the wording. None of what you're doing has anything at all to do with "orienteering."

BDPT00

"if you're not wearing the scout uniform, you're not supposed to wear a Scout hat"

Says who? I think most uniforming issues happen when people make up rules.

BDPT00

*** I sure hope our Scouts don't act that way. Doing the right thing just because somebody is watching?! That's not what we teach when we discuss ethics. I didn't find the write-up humorous, and a good turn is done without expectation of reward.

Pchadbo, I hope you're not in the minority in here. The guy did what was right. Is that not what we're trying to teach our Scouts to do? In NYLT, we teach ethics. The punch line is usually that you should do what's right, even when nobody is watching. Pretty simple concept, but obviously not followed by everyone.

BDPT00

Your first line says you're 17. You signed off as EagleScouter2010.

You're not a Scouter yet, although you seem to have some idea of how you should behave when you become one. For now, you're a Scout looking for a youth leader. Look in the mirror. Then get busy. Lead this troop. Don't just sit around and expect someone else to do it. Lead by example, which in this case means lead.

BDPT00

Regarding the patch, he says this is where they were told to have it worn at the area training for the course directors.

*** That's an understandable answer, and totally incorrect. It's a wonderful example of how "I heard it at NYLT (or WB)" or "I saw a staff member wear it there (at NYLT or WB)."

And this is exactly why trainers and staff members need to model it correctly.

BDPT00

I think what he's getting at is that if you're hidden within your unit, and never get out there and train anywhere or become a bit more visible, it's likely you'll be missed when Wood Badge or NYLT folks are asking around for potential staffers. If nobody knows who you are, how will you ever get recommended to serve on a staff? (In other words, you get noticed at district and council events.)

BDPT00

And I wouldn't hesitate.

Done it many times (including NAYLE staffers).

BDPT00

This quickly fell into the uniform police bashing mode.

So ... those who feel that it's inappropriate to wear an NYLT patch above the pocket, are they all the dreaded patch police? Give me a break.

I wouldn't hesitate to make a big fuss over it. It's wrong, and NYLT staff and participants should be taught what's proper. It's not hard.

Fix it.

BDPT00

And away we go!

Welcome back. Wear the flap of the lodge in which you're active and registered.

BDPT00

Thanks Hawkrod. I can't stand the 13 fold "tradition" and how significant some think it is. I happen to think it's foolish and not well thought out, and I appreciated your comment regarding how the original purpose for something is changed over time to have some deep meaning.

Here's one that really ticks me off. The Wood badge staff guide now states that the only appropriate knot for beads is a simple overhand knot to remind one of doing a good turn daily (or some similar rubbish). When beads arrive from supply, they're a total mess. The alleged symbolic overhand knot is sloppy, loose, and, quite frankly, ugly. I would never present beads like that. The knot needs to be replaced, or at the very least, retied or tightend up. Somebody writing the syllabus and staff guide decided that the knot needed a meaning. What a crock. They're tied in an overhand knot for a reason similar to why firemen wears red suspenders. If they weren't tied in a knot, it would just be a long piece of leather shoelace with a bead at each end. Wouldn't stay around the neck very well.

Oh well. Thanks again for commenting on the deep symbolism associated with folds in our flag.

BDPT00

I sure don't know what all of that was about, but I think it might have been a "yes."

Rather than even attempt to address any of it (How in the world would one even try to do it?! Can't beat the logic, eh?), I'll simply counter with "no."

BDPT00

I didn't say pressured or forced either. What I sense from some of the postings is that they've achieved some sort of "exempt" status... kinda like senioritis. Being exempt or receiving a free pass from responsibility is exactly the opposite of what their Eagle Charge says, or doesn't that apply until they're well out of Scouts? Frankly, I think that JASM in most troops means that they're no longer "forced" to be in a patrol, and they no longer come under the jurisdiction of the SPL. They're different, privileged, special, or exempt.

Those aren't the words I'm hearing, but it's the feeling I'm getting from what I read.

Dispute this: a Scout is a Scout. What difference does it make what patch they wear on their left pocket? (and/or for that matter, the patch they used to wear on their left sleeve?)

BDPT00

Eagle is a rank. It's not a free pass to "just be a Scout."

Becoming Eagle doesn't mean they've graduated. It means they've earned the next rank. They should be active in their troop, just like all of the other Scouts, and if that means running for SPL, so be it. Personally, I think PL would be even better. Den Chief or Troop Guide would be great too.

Don't put them out to pasture. Use their talents to make your troop better. Allow them to serve ... it comes with the rank.

BDPT00

The reason I was picky is because we've seen ALC, LCA, ELC, ELCA, LCMS, LCMC, etc.

They're all different, and it matters.

BDPT00

The Lutheran North American church dates all the way back to 2010.

** I know this sounds picky, but I'm sure you mean the North American Lutheran Church. And "whatever" isn't an appropriate answer. "Lutheran USA" was the main thing I was aiming at.

Thanks, BDPT00

The original post says "Our CO is a Lutheran Church that just voted to leave the Lutheran USA and join the Lutheran North American."

I think a little homework is in order. What is "Lutheran USA," and what is "Lutheran North American?" Let's get our ducks in a row.

To me, a Lutheran (and any Christian I happen to know) believes (confesses) the Apostles' Creed. The Creed includes the resurrection.

So, to me, the answer to the OP is no.

BDPT00