BDPT00

I'm curious about the deficiencies. Are most based upon terminology? Does the same written material work for both programs? Do the Scouts get it? Do the Venturers get it?

What if ... you run one week with Boy Scout terminology for just Boy Scouts, then run a week for Venturers with Venturing terminology? Would it make it more understandable to the players?

BDPT00

Well then, count me among the unenlightened who think that an eleven year old boy shouldn't share a tent with an eleven year old girl, regardless of what gender either thinks they are, what the tentmate thinks of it, or what the parents think about it. I guess that if it's good enough for GSUSA, who am I to question it?

BDPT00

"If they were serious about scouting and the kinds of things we do as a unit, I'd let anyone in."

*** This sounds exactly like the response GSUSA has made. Can I assume then that you'd think nothing of your Tenderfoot eleven year old sharing his tent with an eleven year old girl? Call me old-fashioned, but aren't there any limits in your world?

BDPT00

I'm curious. For those who think the BSA needs to lighten up on the membership requirements, has the GSUSA finally crossed a line you wouldn't want to cross, or is this something the BSA should consider doing?

Just wondering where you draw the line.

BDPT00

Still waiting. Is there anyone who has seen the new syllabus in action who thinks that it's a good course for Boy Scouts? Is it better than the old course?

The other question: Is it a good course for Venturers?

Was the neutral language of any value to either program?

There must be somebody out there who participated this summer. What did you think?

I haven't heard anything positive yet. There must be something good about it.

BDPT00

And I'll just jump in again countering Voyageur's suggestion. I've seen both ways work fine, but even right here within this thread, people are conflicted about exactly what a ticket should look like. Going into a course with some ideas is fine, but to think ahead of time that you know exactly what your ticket is supposed to look like, I don't think is a wise idea. As

Voyageur said, things change and ideas come and go. I think one needs to be totally flexible and willing to climb new mountains. Absorb ideas from others. Where I agree totally is that writing a ticket can be very stressful for some. A deer in the headlights feeling is difficult when the page in front of you is blank. Being totally surprised by a ticket can be really tough, but I think being closed to new thoughts and ideas (visions?) defeats the purpose of participating in Wood Badge.

BDPT00

So ... back to the original question: How might it be made better?

The other questions:

Is this new syllabus better for Boy Scouts? I think not.

Is it any good at all for Venturers? I have no idea? I haven't heard.

BDPT00

When seeking staffers, I'd ignore Eagle and NYLT as a youth. I agree with Scoutfish regarding attitude, and I'd look for those I knew were good trainers. Age and gender wouldn't matter much, but a mixture of both would be good. With good people, a good course director can make it work. A lousy course director (a weak pool of staffers matters, too) would be the primary reason a staff doesn't perform well. Eagle and NYLT wouldn't matter. Main thing is the leadership and vision of the Scoutmaster.

BDPT00

I disagree. Those who come with a ticket in hand think they know what it's all about. They generally have no clue, and their minds aren't open to hear how a ticket should be created. I don't see that as a positive. A lot of times, district folks will approach them, and they'll end up with district tickets. Also not a good idea. I think they're being used. I'm serious. I think that when some people hear that so-and-so is signed up for Wood Badge, they think they've got some fresh meat to accomplish a few things that need being done in the district. Letting them know you might have some ideas for ticket items is fine. Other than that, I think they should be left alone until their first weekend is over. Then they should come looking for you if they need your ideas.

BDPT00

Basementdweller,

From a few days ago:

"I am about two weeks from completing my ticket. I took the course 14 months ago.

I will NEVER recommend woodbadge and have already talked a couple of folks locally out of taking it."

From today:

"it is all about the beads isn't it.........."

To one who has said there's more bad about Scouts than good, I have to ask ... Why are you completing your ticket? Why do you care about getting those 50 cent beads that cost $300? Why haven't you left the program yet? I'm having a hard time understanding where you're headed in Scouting, and why. And yes, I know darn well it's none of my business, thank you. I just don't think that someone looking forward to Wood Badge needs to hear that your attitude is different than his. I hope he has a wonderful experience, finishes his ticket, and is proud to wear his beads.

Let's make this simple. What will your beads mean to you? What do you plan to do with them? Do you plan to accept them, or might their public presentation be your opportunity to make a bold statement about your love of Wood Badge and Scouting?

BDPT00

Same here. I'm concerned about terminology, and about non-camping Venturers. I can't picture how this thing is supposed to work. Is it supposed to be better somehow for Boy Scouts? How?

BDPT00

Good for you, Jay. You shouldn't be criticized for doing your best to do what you believe is right.

BDPT00

OK, so now that the NYLT season is over for most, what commnets do you have reagarding the new syllabus? I can think of several questions, but the main two would be: Was it effective for Venturers, and is it now more or less effective for Boy Scouts?

Oh, and one more: How can it be made better?

BDPT00

You used to be a Habu?

I've found that most seasoned Scouters typically check into WB with an attitude. For many, it changes, and they really enjoy it. For others, it's a waste of time, but I think they know that before they go. For the vast majority of those who go, it's much more than they'd expected, and they're very glad they went. This obviously varies across the country. A lousy staff can mess things up pretty well, and that's really unfortunate, but even then, most have a good time anyway. They don't learn as much, but they have fun, and to a lot of Scouters, that's what matters most.

If you're new to Scouting, go to Wood Badge. If you think you already know everything, check your attitude at the door.

BDPT00

It's OK if they make lumpy pancakes. They'll get better with practice.

Allowing mistakes to happen isn't easy. That also takes practice.

When the mistakes are minor, let them happen. Don't expect or demand perfection (in camping activities). Camping is the laboratory where things happen more quickly and intensely. That's a good thing.

Give new parents something to do, even if it's holding down a chair. They need to give their kids some room to breath.

Don't pack for them. Help them whenever they ask for it, but don't allow yourself to do things they can do themselves.

Most importantly ... Let them make decisions. Even a very simple (to us) decision can be very difficult, but if you never let them live with their decisions, they'll learn that it's easier to let someone else make decisions for them. That's not a good thing when the first time they're ever on their own to make a decision is as a freshman in the dorm on their first weekend away from home. That would mean that some kid across the hall whom you have never met will be making the decisions for your child. Don't let it happen. Give them chances to practice making decisions when it involves jelly or jam, smooth or chucky, white or wheat. It's good practice for that first dorm weekend. Let your child be the leader ... not that stranger across the hall.

BDPT00

This shouldn't be necessary. There are a lot of things wrong with this whole picture. If NYLT is the source of this shoulder loop thing, they need some guidance. If the district thinks a 16 year old should be wearing a District Committee patch, they also need some direction.

The Scout has some growing up to do. I'd have a hard time with his attitude, and I've now lost interest in the subject. Good luck.

BDPT00

The OP didn't mention whether he was an NYLT staffer or not. Either way, if it's a tradition (or what ever it might be called), it should be corrected by the Council Executive. I agree with Ideadoc... bringing attention to oneself ("Look at me!") is contrary to what should be taught at NYLT.

BDPT00

So what's the problem? Are we afraid to tell someone in a leadership role and representing the OA, the district, and NYLT that he needs to set a better example?

If he were in my charge, I wouldn't hesitate.

BDPT00

"While a First Class Scout" has nothing to do with merit badges. Do some. Is there some big hurry here? Why are we trying to dream up ideas to go around the requirements? When does he plan to make Star? Is this slowing him down for that?

Advancement is only one of the 8 methods. How did it become the only thing that matters? What kind of message are we giving this Scout and the rest of the troop?

I don't get it.

BDPT00

I see a couple things of interest. Wearing the leather woggle with the participant neckerchief is odd to me. Someone also mentioned a staff neckerchief. What's that? ScoutBox made mention of several former course directors on staff. Nobody else capable of staffing?

BDPT00

Sorry, I was a bit out of line.

I'm easily annoyed when people say that they heard that somebody somewhere thought they heard somebody say something. Then a reason needs to be assigned to it, and off we go.

BDPT00

If somebody's got an issue with it, let's talk. If it's all speculative, let's drop it.

I've never heard (up close and personal) any of this stuff. If somebody doesn't like it, they don't need to participate, and they can pick up their balls and go home ... but leave mine alone.

BDPT00

"Kindof sad that you can go to a Woodbadge reunion & not be recognized."

*** Ever seen it happen?

Didn't think so.

"Kindof sad that you can go to a Woodbadge reunion & not be recognized."

*** Ever seen it happen?

Didn't think so.

"I dreaded standing at that field....they took 15 minutes of crap and strung it out for an hour. Awarding and recognizing every member of the staff over and over again, giggling at inside jokes and antics."

*** Very sorry to hear that. Please don't judge all of Wood Badge by one lousy staff. Awarding and recognizing any member of the staff is out of line. Inside jokes are even worse. Your staff was rude, and didn't get it. That doesn't die easily. Find a way to make your comments heard at the region level. Your staff needs a complete makeover.

BDPT00