Basementdweller

ah come on sentinel if your boys can't figure out the solution to forgotten food they deserve to starve.

solution 1......don't admit there is a problem and go hungry. A lesson they will never forget.

Solution 2.....Realize they have a problem and got to the spl asking for guidance.

Seriously, I would never let a patrol starve. But I am not going to out and cover their back by bringing food because I know they forgot it. What is the lesson in that? Oh we don't have to worry because the SM has us covered.

Safe fail right?

But the OH crap we forgot to bring food lesson followed by the problem solving, pride swallowing, admitting a mistake and asking for help is a decent lesson to teach.

BTW, why would the parents be angry with me? Because the SPL didn't over see the PL who failed to appoint a grubmaster or come up with a menu and buy food??????

The monthly campout process never changes.

I always use the public library, not in a private meeting room. Keeps the youth and parents out of my house

Naive cub parents.....pssssssssssssst

That gal is a BORED wealthy stay at home catholic school soccer mom. A sad sad thing to read.

The best advice I ever got was start looking for your replacement as soon as your in the job. There is a Prospective tiger dad who was a life scout in the pipe, I will start working him bear year and make sure I shake his hand and say hi every week at the meeitngs.

My adult situation has improved, I got 2 additional adults as asm who actually passed the BSA background check. So there are 4 of us on outings now.

oh sentinel you silly boy

If we want to get into the entire scout law debate and being a quality adult fit for leading a troop lets take the gloves off.

How many Cubmasters and Scoutmasters are divorced? hmmmm,

How many have conviction for various offenses? Many

How many obese leaders do we have?

How many have extra marital affairs? How many of those have happened on scout trips?

How many BSA leaders have chosen scouting over their Family?

We can go all day here.

Every scout camp has a smoking policy and honestly I am glad smoking leader is there verses the troop not going on the outing.

Far as the Tshirt at the race. ASM was on his own time and supporting a worthy cause. Far as the shirts and slogan go, geezus get over it. it was funny. Locally we have a Save the Tatas campaign for breast cancer awareness.

Guessing the OP isn't happy with the CO's original unit and can do it better. so wants to start another unit

I am guessing the OP is a youth.

Smoking was the social norm until quite recently. so for the last 2000 years we have walk north america and men have smoked. Only in the last 20 years and more specifically the last 10 has it become socially undesirable. So your SM is probably in his 40's or 50's and has smoked since his teens or early 20's. Smoking is currently not illegal, or forbidden at scout events. Instead of complaining about the SM may be he should be grateful there is someone interested in providing a scouting program for him. Millennial parents are not volunteering like the previous generations.

Far as the Breast Cancer walk goes. I have found that mixing personal life and scouting a tough thing to do. I am a 50 year old american male. I ride motorcycles, smoke cigars, drink bourbon and meet my boys at hooters for bike night. So does that make me morally bankrupt????? Don't think so.

Yep some do gooder mom complained that her son saw me drinking and smoking a cigar on my back porch to our Institutional head. He lives 3 doors down and is a friend of my son spends more time at my house than his.....Yep I was drinking, smoking a cigar and swapping lies with the neighbor. When the IH called me to talk with me about it, the conversation started with why he never got invited. Discussion was over, although the IH got a bottle of Black Crown for Christmas.

Never Mix personal life with scouting.

Don't do that again. I really missed you. Just not the same without your smiling face. Really could have used your expertise over in the "are den dues excessive" thread. It would have been fun.

That was an incredibly funny thread......All I gotta say is wow. She's something, and I need to thank the Lord my CC and Committee have given me support to rid our unit of this sort of human refuse. All of my parents who were problems have been asked to leave or have seen the light in what we are trying to accomplish after several parent meetings.

Patrol method is more than a noble idea or chapter in a training manual. The boys can and will train, plan and lead each other if you allow them too. Rarely is it pretty, but the boys don't care......it is their program and they love it for what it is. They own every success and failure.

Man I missed a live one here. just about busted a gut laughing at post #5 and then the follow up.

Write this one down......I agree with baseball fan, as den leader I would approach the CC and CM about asking you and your boys to leave the unit. From the way it reads here I am sure they would support their DL, especially one with 3 years of tenure.

So the old tiger den leader who probably has held a total of 4 meetings is an organized stellar professional.

The old dirt bag bear den leader who has not collected a nickle in den dues for the last two years is a unorganized, money grubbing non professional....

slowly shaking my head, rubbing my temples

We are hearing less than 1/2 of the story here. I would love to read what the den leader has to say about his need for the dues.

Just so much to work with, must resist.......must resist.

YO, Bear Den leader if your reading this post up. I would love to read your side.

7000 each to attend world jambo...holy moley

So how many boys could attend a week of summer camp with that amount of cash????? let me see.....35 scouts at my camp.

How many weekend camping trips would that finance? for my troop 20 or nearly 2 years of program

How many tents would that buy.......we buy timberline 4 outfitters.......300 each so 22 of those.

Very screwed up. That amount of money could impact so many more boys than one or two scouts.

Been a while folks.

troop has outgrown my desired number of 36........now at 50. with probably another 20 or so joining in the february march time frame, as we hosted a fall webelos campout and ended up with webelos from 3 different packs. Our webelos leader shared the info at roundtable and the phone started ringing........I am not gonna turn away a boy.

gotta laugh, there is some serious butthurt around the district about it....but that is another story.

Patrol method is beginning to take hold and the boys are starting to get it. We generally have 2 or 3 patrol outings a month in addition to the troop outing. Hikes, festivals, fairs, community events, swimming, merit badge clinics, rappelling and local park programs have been on the menu, yes, one patrol even went and played paintball, found out after the fact, they had a blast.

Still no money as the rich folks a crossed the beltway have us blocked out of fundraising in their suburb. Found a business man who has help me a bit raising money for much needed tenting and various expenses.

We needing to buy a trailer as we have out grown the church vans and pickup truck combo we currently use. And no we are not going to do a bunch of stupid crap with is like mount a shower unit, water heater, battery/solar area lighting, generators, awnings, or flat screen tv's. Just for transporting all that personal gear that goes with 50 people on an outing.

too busy to post much, honestly the questions asked and opinions rendered here don't change that much.

One of my patrols (made up of mostly older boys 14-16)' date=' consistently has problems with the grubmaster role. The PL is very forgetful and laid back and doesn't follow-up. As a result, grubmasters often forget about grub until the last minute, and on the last two occasions, forgot completely. In the first instance, I picked up their food for them since I didn't want to "punish the boys that didn't screw up." After warning them that this was their last bailout, things went ok for a while, but then a couple of campouts later, again, no food (actually partial food -- only enough for two meals). On that trip, I later found out that they begged and borrowed food from the the NSP.[/font']

We are boy-led and use the patrol method, so other than periodic email reminders, I try not to interfere with the patrol workings. But I feel bad for the scouts that are trying hard but being let down by the rest of their patrol. (I'm also worried that it's just a matter of time before the parents start getting upset about little Timmy Teenager not getting fed well enough on campouts).

Today, here we are again, two days before the campout, and the PL tells me that the grubmaster says he doesn't have time to get the food and on top of that, no one can find their menu anyway. I've told him that he either needs to find another grubmaster pronto (they all go to the same school so it's not a communication issue) or be prepared to do it himself. His response was "OK", but based on past experience, I'm not expecting them to arrive with any food.

Any thoughts about ways to get this patrol back on course? I'm grubmaster for the adult patrol this weekend, so I'm thinking about while I'm at the store, grabbing something bland like PB&J and Ramen as an "emergency grubmaster kit." They'll have food, but I imagine they'll get tired of it pretty soon and hopefully learn a lesson.

Your not boy led, you bailed them out. let them fail and then figure it out.

If boys are that horned up after being away from girls for a week, they have some serious issues. The girls in the crew should have adhered to the camp dress code, the leaders who made those comments need to get their heads out of their backsides. If it can be done on a scale as big as the Jamboree, it can be done locally.

Didn't your daughter return from the jambo with a new boyfriend......How many youth were sent home for encounters in the woods??? I heard a number, but won't repeat it as I do not have first hand knowledge.

Evidently you haven't been around 13-15 year old boys much.......they are wound up by nature.

BD I am a little confused about the timeline here. On Monday the Crew was called into the office by I assume the Camp Director then on Tuesday night there were some assignations? Neutral territory or the crews campsite? Does seem outrageous only the boys were punished. Sent home for out past lights out seems a bit extreme especially considering these women are at least 14. I know your troop is the "wrong" color' date=' these women didn't happen to be the "right" color ?[/quote']

 

 

My boys were not involved and we had zero issue with ethnicity this year.

Sounds like an interesting issue for the IRS to look into....Using money raised for a non profit for individual benefit.

The enterprise looks suspect.

Scrap metal for troop gear is OKAY, for vacation to japan, not so much.

Scoutnut,

Ask the parents and boys who got sent home for meeting the girls after lights out on Tuesday night.

So why werent the girls sent home?

So in an hour a week and 40 hours once a month, I am supposed to undo what is currently socially norms/acceptable behaviors. Turn on the TV or facebook and look at acceptable behavior.

Your a bit out of touch sir.

I just got a phone call from the dad of the scout in the OP. This is the first time this scout has done anything like this. He is also terrified. He’s not terrified that he’s got a court date, that he’s going to be taking urine tests until he’s 18, or that he’ll likely lose his license. He’s terrified that I’m going to throw him out of the troop. I have his attention like I’ve never had before and honestly this is much better than I hoped. Not only that, but hopefully if he listens to me he’ll stop listening to the “friends†that sold him the grass. I asked the dad to pass on the message that his son would be forgiven after he makes up for his mistakes, which includes proving this won’t happen again, and that 16 months should be enough time if he works at it. He's going to learn in much detail about righting a wrong. I also told the dad his son needs to call me for now on, rather than dad.

It's not that I'm choosing between giving him a second chance or expulsion from the troop. It's that I'm going to give him a first chance, along with some guidance, on how to make up for the mistake he made. It's his choice what he does with it.

I would never let the kid off the hook like that. I would never tell dad to give him a message, I would have a SMC with him and let him feel the pressure and sweat a bit. Have a serious heart to heart with him.

You still believe that this is the first time the boy has done anything like this? Boy if I had a nickle for everytime I am told that. Just like how many parents tell you their boy doesn't need a swimming test because he can swim.

If it's a legal issue, let the courts decide what needs to be done. If they slap him on his wrist and send him home, so be it. I'm thinking the parents are going to heap a load of coals on him and now it's up to the BSA to add to that. Maybe we ought to get the school and church in on this little game of dump on the dummy.

 

I'm all for dragging him out in the parking lot and shooting him as an example to the rest of the boys. But if you do, make sure that along with the blindfold, you give him the right kind of cigarette.

 

Stosh

your making assumptions,

Recreational drug use is becoming more and more socially acceptable. Maybe his parents are ok with it. We never know.

Your absolutely right, I will live to the letter of the requirement.

But he will not be permitted a leadership position, because that requires scoutmaster approval. He will not be permitted to go on outings, again concerns about previous behavior,

No signatures of recommendation from me.

So you guys are all gonna roll over and let this kid slide. good for you, Not me, I will stand on my own two feet and do what I feel is right.

 

I'll preface my post by saying I dress modestly, and I dress my young daughter modestly. That is my choice as a female and as a mother.

 

However, this attitude is absolutely disgusting. While I may agree with you about keeping boys and girls separated for various reason, to suggest that these girls are tramps because of how they dress is vulgar at best. Boys can't control themselves, so we should cover the girls up? Are you kidding me? Alcoholics can't control themselves, so should we reinstate prohibition? We SHOULD be teaching our boys respect, and self discipline. Giving boys a pass to act like rude, nasty little people because they can't possibly control themselves with all those hormones raging? Give me a break. A girl can dress however she chooses, that doesn't give ANYONE any reason to treat her any different than they would treat anyone else. We respect people they are human beings and innately deserving of respect. How someone dresses has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the person they are inside.

 

I DO agree that there should be certain dress codes required for certain events. If a dress code needs to be drafted for your particular summer camp, perhaps that's something you could work on. Maybe you could even work on it, without *gasp* calling teenage girls tramps. But let's keep in mind that if girls can't bare their midriff, maybe the boys shouldn't be able to either? If we are going to make one gender dress a certain way, then we ought to follow those same rules for both genders, yes?

I figured I would have a mom or lady post saying it was the boys fault.

I never called the girls tramps. One of the leaders did at leaders the meeting did.

Just an FYI, The boys are completely clothed except at the water front or pool

The girls should dress in the same manner as the boys. Tshirt and basketball shorts seem to be the style for the week, I would have the same issue with a young man showing up in yoga, or tiny shorts and a string top or tube top. It just isn't appropriate.

Ya I have a huge beef with what happened and went on. It really screwed up the camp for the week, r

The boys have not learned self control yet, they are in the middle of the mind and body changes..... A half or 2/3 naked gal is gonna mess with his mind and body.

the young ladies and the leaders who thought it is ok for their daughters to run around camp with butt cheeks and breast hanging out of clothing need to adjust their thinking.

I am a scout leader not a sex education instructor.

I have since spoke with the Camp Director and Program Director very directly about what went on. The crew will not be welcome back next year as they were called into the office Monday morning at camp regarding the complaints about their unit and failed to address them.

The camp staff are properly attired in the camp designated uniform. Not belly shirts and short shorts.

Let me say the Crew Adult leadership had the audacity to complain at the evening leaders meeting about the harassment their girls were receiving. their attire was brought up and they said it was socially acceptable clothing and we need to teach our boys respect.

One leader chimed up if you dress like a tramp you get treated like a tramp.

Our society, USA, is failing to teach our boys and girls to respect each other. It was like mating season,

A request for Venture crew leaders.

Please steer your Crews, especially those with young ladies, away from traditional boy scout summer camps.

It disrupts the boys in a not very constructive manner.

If you chose to ignore this request. Please make sure they have things to wear other than short shorts and spaghetti strap belly shirts. Changed the camp from a boy scout camp to a testosterone fueled can of stupid.

So what if this happened in Colorado or Washington where it is not illegal?

While MJ is a gateway drug there are many function weed abusers, just like functional alcoholics, in our society.

Not sure why there is any debate

Scouting is the least of this young mans issues. or is it an issue at all? What does mom and dad say? Are they casual users as well?

As pointed out the police are not going to do anything to a kid with a couple of joints, even if he was sharing it.

So Matt, you need to figure out where YOU stand on the issue.

I would do everything in my power to make it as difficult as possible for the young man to receive his Eagle. Depending on the discussion with the parents I would ask the committee to support me in either suspending your revoking his membership in the troop.

If you don't stand for something, then sooner or later you realize you stand for nothing.

I haven't post in a while, still reading, this nonsense just makes me want to puke.

Scouting is about boys of similar age learning to work together towards a common goal.

This gets so diluted by adult interference.

Tell the lad he failed on scout spirit because of these events.

GAmom you going to college to protect your boy from the bad people?????? better he learn to do it at on his own at 12 than 21.

In the fall we go backpacking on the Teacher work day in early October, we leave thursday night and get back Sunday afternoon.

Holiday weekends Memorial day, Labor day, 4th of July and others, not so much. Many of my unit head to out of town relatives on those weekends