Basementdweller

 

Don't apologize for me.....

 

 

Scouting is a horrible shadow of what it once was......I am not even speaking of my time in scouting as the sun had already began to set on my time.........Fricken millennial Parents......Every body is special, deserves a title, a Trophy or a pat on the back for not crying because they didn't receive the Pink Elephant Petting Merit badge, even though he wasn't in attendance.

 

Helicopter parents........Cub leaders who don't understand or won't understand the intent of the boy scout program

 

Weak poorly trained Adult Leaders whether they gate keep or the ones that Participation equals completion bunch......Grow a spine, follow the guidelines for safety and advancement.

 

Or the Other Adults that think Boy Scouting is a Family outdoor adventure club....

 

 

 

So we have a mom here who is going to start meddling in the troop.......Just like she did in Tiger Cubs push her scout to the head of the line....

 

My Troop has grown and I am very sure it was not a good thing.....I am dealing with a few moms and grandmothers now....whose scout joined our unit less than 2 months ago and think they should be SPL, PL or even God for that matter.

 

So NO, I don't have any sympathy and a complete understanding of this MOM.......

 

 

So Guys, just curious here, In her scouts Football team.....How far would a phone call to the coach go to make her son Team Captain?????

 

NO WHERE.......

 

Ya, I am grumpy this morning........After spending an hour receiving abuse from a mom not unlike this yesterday......Our conversation ended with "No, I will not appoint your scout to any position and NO I will not assign him a project, His SPL or PL will assign him the position. Furthermore YOU are not to speak to the SPL, your scout will need to ask him for an assignment and If I hear of you speaking to the SPL on your scouts behalf, your scout will be asked to leave our unit."

 

 

If I deal with this mom again on this subject before the end of the week I think her scout will be asked to leave.

So what has he done for the previous 5 years in scouting. Boys in my troop generally advance once a year, with little extra effort put into advancement.

Or the Parents bullying the Pack and Troop leaders.

I am going to call the council office if you don't do X or Johnny isn't given or appointed X.

Your Pinewood derby stinks so I am gonna call the District Executive and get you in trouble.

Or the mom demanding to know why her scout isn't advancing. Your program stinks, Your holding MY scout back on purpose. no your scout missed the orienteering outing, and the last three campouts and has not acted as head cook for his patrol, He did not know the Three R's

As soon as he completes those, he will advance........

We have all seen the guy at roundtable who is the district enforcer......When a question is asked, the room hushes and all look to him for a reaction, especially if the question is controversial.

It is a volunteer organization......I don't have to be here to fulfill any lifelong ambition or a particular obligation. If you want me gone just say so, I will look over my shoulder with a smile for the boys I have touched and may have made a difference in their lives.

Heck I figured ya threw in the towel......Good to hear your still fighting the good fight.

Laugh whats that. My troop has grown to larger than what I would like. We are at 40 with 33 very active.

I have grown to appreciate the stupidity and self created drama that we Americans can create.

Ya my sense of humor is dead and patience for scoutmoms and pushy parents is near zero

I would file for the extension and get in writing that they believe he does not have enough time to complete it.

Complete the project before his 18th birthday. and have all of the signatures and paperwork signed.

Yep happens. Either from lack of adult leadership to low numbers.

Still trying to polish your social skills on the new parents BD? Your rant reminds me of the old Saturday Night Live skits where Dan Aykrod yells "Jane you ignorant..hmmm". Well you know.

 

Scoutmom, you are basing your questions under the misunderstanding that the main objective of the POS (leadership) experience is for advancement of rank. Evem many troop leaders have that misconception. Positions of Responsibility are intended to give scouts practice in real life situation of making decisions based from the Scout Law. While we parents by nature tend to look at the gratifications of stature for our children, that is not the primary mission of the Scouting Program. The program mission as stated by the BSA is:The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. POS or Leadership is one of the many methods of how the BSA accomplishes their mission.

 

But you should also understand that POS experience isn't very useful unless it challenges a boy at his level of maturity and scouting experience. If the troop is running as designed, the Patrol Leader really should have a couple years experience in the troop to have the maturity and scouting experience for a quality leadership experience. I know there is a lot to learn about scouting and how it works, if you don't feel comfortable asking in this forum, there are several other Scout forums a little more understanding to new parents looking to learn. That being said, there are also a lot of good scouting direction here as well.

 

Barry

On no another parent trying to make sure her boy gets a POR so he can make eagle by the time he is 12.

 

 

SO OP what is your position in the troop??? OH you don't have one......then butt the heck out. Stop trying to work the system....

 

Let your son enjoy his scouting experience, Let him grow into a leadership position.

 

 

BTW...

 

The SPL and PL's are elected the rest of the positions are appointed by the SPL and PL's. The SM shouldn't be doing it.

I get he is 16 and either isn't very popular or very ambitious.

Those reasons don't give you any right to force him into a leadership position.

Back off.

Scout positions of responsibility are not given out by Scoutmasters.

In our Troop, after the Troop Elections, whatever positions are left are assigned by the SM to whomever wants them.

 

Your way out of line......

So are you going to college with your son and maybe his first job interview........

You need to step way the heck back and stop over mothering your boy.

So at your Eagle court of honor will the badge be awarded to you or him..

Back off helicopter mom......your interfering with troop operations

So why are adults worried about lights out????

It is the boys program if they want to say up till 1am and then get up at 6 am to make the 7am rafting departure I am good with that.....

They will learn....

Especially if they miss their trip. When expensive outings are involved I will go kick the tent of the spl to get him moving....that is all

If we adults keep intervening they will never learn to self regulate.

ASM's and I take turn cooking for the Adult leadership team and any parents that tag along.

So has the lad earned his arrow of light?

I have had 9 year olds ready to join boy scouting and some 15 year olds who have not......

So to ask a bunch of random folks on the internet, who do not know your son or the troop he hopes to join is a really bad idea.

We do not know your situation or your son........So we cannot provide relevant advice.

I would like to add, if your going to try and cross him over in the fall, why? The big push to cross over before the end of the cub program year, June, is so the boys can get used to Boy Scouting before they head off to summer camp with the Troop in June or July typically

Let's look at it this way: Mazzuca was paid 34 cents per member. Garibay was paid $4.31 per member.

where 1.4% of each BSA membership fee goes to pay the CE

hmmmmm

I am sure the Trail Life group will serve you much better than the BSA

I donno, BD, sounds like your chance to get in early and make the big bucks down the line.

Just like AHG the way the organization was created just doesn't sit well with me.

And in reflecting on the conversation I had with the fellow the other night, a lot of things don't give me the warm and fuzzy feeling..

I am a follow my senses kinda guy. If it feels wrong, or a trap or right I follow those first.

National registration is $24

Boys life is $12

 

Beyond that our unit charges $1 per week, Covers merit badges, rank advancement youth training and the other sundry expenses that seem to crop up including the dog that ate the troop flag.

 

Campouts.......Basic food cost $3 per meal per boy so $15 for the weekend, then if there is a campground, cabin or activity expense then that is added on. Our most expensive trip was $65 which included a Cabin, Snow Tube rental and gas for the 250 mile round trip drive.

 

Summer camp for us is $210.

But it is not a flashy camp, no blob at the lake or ATV's or horses......

But a fantastic BASIC scout program.

The camp is always booked solid and you need to make your reservation for the coming year before you leave or you will lose your campsite.

I got the product Basement recommended. It was very small, and filled my air mattress mostly full. Conveniently it filled it to the actual comfort level I like, so no need to remove or add any air.

 

It's best performance was as an aid to waking up the coals of our campfire. Worked perfectly and really got the fire blazing.

 

Thanks for the recommendation BD!

Glad you like it.

If you read thru the respective 990 forms you might have gleaned some hints as to why the head of the AGH was paid so much less -

 

Revenue (income) - BSA $218,296,402 - GSUSA $105,217,626 - AHG $1,481,117

 

Land/buildings/equipment (before depreciation) - BSA $188,990,946 - GSUSA $78,966,745 - AHG $20,197

 

Total Assets - BSA $1,023,031,961 - GSUSA $186,228,734 - AHG $1,193,165

 

Youth Served 2012 - BSA 3,250,663 - GSUSA 2,291,425 - AHG 26,268

 

So to pat AHG on the back, and extol them for "making do", and being more fiscally responsible, is like comparing the local burger chain to McDonalds. There is just NO real comparison.

 

For a good portion of it's life AHG was piggybacking on BSA for many of it's needs, like training, and camps.

 

As for complaining that your District Executive (or whomever it actually was) did nothing to help when your PWD went belly-up, that is just down right silly.

 

The track, and the computer, do not belong to the DE, or the council. They belong to the Charter Organization, and the Pack.

 

The DE was not putting on the program. The Pack was.

 

Why would you think that the council person would know anything at all about YOUR PWD track, and computer?

 

It sounds like you had plenty of help, and expertise on your own. You did not need another inexperienced helper putting in their unknowledgeable 2 cents. Besides, if the council person had accidently made things worse because of his lack of knowledge, YOU would have been the FIRST to jump up, and down, on him for "ruining" YOUR Pinewood Derby! Personally, I don't blame him for not wanting to touch Pack equipment.

The Eagle Scout award means different things to different people. I have encountered people that see eagle scouts as a really impressive, and others that see them as no big deal. I think one of the things that shapes our view of the award, is what were the eagles like that we knew when we were scouts.

 

In my old troop, we had only one scout make it to Eagle while I was there (no, not me). He was our SPL at the time, and a great scout (if you wanted a great example of kind, courteous, helpful, etc. He was it). I remember his eagle project. It was a conservation project at a county park, and the whole troop showed up to help. I spent the day with a pick in my hand digging a drainage ditch in hard ground ("are you sure that isn't concrete?"). Others in the troop laid out matting on bare hillsides and erosion channels. It was a project he (and all of us) were proud of. We saw how much he put into the troop, and how much he put into the award. To us it meant something because of the scout that held the rank, not the award itself.

 

Later that year when I met my first 14 year old eagle at summer camp, I was kind of shocked. How did he finish everything so quickly? I chatted with him a while about it. His troop turned out to be an eagle mill troop (though I hadn't heard the term back then). His project was a joke (he collected newspapers for recycling by giving twenty homes a paper bag, asking them to fill it with old newspaper, and collecting it the next week. He collected about a 100 pounds, that was it. Our troop did a newspaper drive every year, and we collected more than that per scout). His troop also ran a merit badge "clinic" the weekend after summer camp because summer camp didn't give out enough merit badges. He had gotten something like eight merit badges at the previous year's clinic (enough to finish his eagle). He boasted that over half the scouts in his troop were eagles (I didn't believe him, so I went by their camp later. I didn't count them, but there were a lot of scouts with eagle patches). Basically, his eagle award wasn't worth much (unfortunately this encounter has colored my view of "young eagles" to this day - something I have to watch out for).

 

So I can see both sides.

Guide to advancement: 4.2.3.5, pg 29, states clearly that leaders do not have the authority to deny a Scout a unit leader (SM) conference that is necessary for rank advancement.

 

There is nothing for the SM to sign off on other than the fact that a scoutmaster conference was held. If the scoutmaster won't hold one, then the SCOUT should ask for a board of review, as the G to A says.

If that is the case then the CC can fail his BOR or pass him....

So is it better for the CC to tell a lad up front he isn't ready or to hold the BOR and then deny him????

Ya she is a Paranoid tea party member too......there is danger around every corner and everyone is out to get ME..........

Have you seen the movie Drop Dead Gorgeous. a comedy about a beauty contest in a small minnesota town..... the AHG remind me of the seen in the Talent contest where one of the contestant does a song and dance number with Jesus being crucified on the cross........ It is completely absurd.

We are White, WE Love Jesus Christ the only True God and the savior of humanity, We are Rich and the rest of you who don't believe in him, cough cough the mud races, are going to burn in hell......don't forget the sun screen.

Big news????? Nope.

I got news for you...If the AHG could afford a million dollar salary old Patti would be getting it too.......

Humans are greedy and cheating by nature......

As a member of one of the mud races........You can take the AHG and hmmmmmmm, use your imagination.

I understand regulatory requirements.

But for a Troop camping weekend.....A outhouse is nice and about 50 acres of woods with a pond on it.

That is it. Don't need a swimming pool, dining hall.....fancy water treatment or waste disposal facility.

The BSA has lost its way in this regard. More sometimes is just more and not better.

Just like that White Elephant in West Virginia that cost us how much and isn't even finished yet???????

A few questions, maybe this isn't the right place. How does a camp drive MB frenzies? I mean summer camp maybe, but a camp site? What are bible thumpers and why are they hypocrites? Just trying to understand, your world seems very different from ours. Barry

Summer camps.......come on you have read the complaints about the boys not actually having fun and the merit badges have a price tag associated with each one. The parental expectation for the boys to come home with a bunch completed.

So TL splits with the BSA over the admission of openly gay youth as members....Then recants on that after they split, guess they don't have the BSA's deep pockets to fight the inevitable law suits.

the grass is greener or is it.

from his description of the org.....Most of the folks are volunteers.

My councils scout camps are expensive... I know some councils let troops camp for free. Not mine a night in the camp with the troop will cost $80 for a tent site.

I am one that thinks maybe it is time for the scout owned camps should go away. It would end the merit badge frenzy and poor quality that folks complain about.