NeilLup

Twocubdad, With deep respect, what you are suggesting flies directly in the face of what data suggests creates successful recruiting of Webelos Scouts. The time to emphasize training in youth leadership is AFTER THE BOYS JOIN YOUR TROOP. The data (and yes, I have developed that data) suggests that having a Troop leader, ideally the Scoutmaster visit Webelos Den meetings and enable the Webelos Scouts to become confortable with him/her is the single most important factor in motivating Webelos Scouts to join and thrive in a Troop. The youth influence and leadership can come thr

Much would seem to become clearer. It would seem that the Scoutmaster, for good reasons or bad, has decided that this young man should not become an Eagle Scout and that nothing that the young man can do will change that. When he decided that is uncertain. It would also seem that the Scoutmaster is highly knowledgeable about Scouting and Scout advancement. He knows how to position the system and the facts so that the young man will not get Eagle, none of the procedures are violated and it appears that the Scoutmaster has been responsive and the Scout has not. Finally, it

Hello Mdsummer, If you still have the contact information, I would contact the Council Advancement Chairman again, indicate that there is a different point of view which you and your son would like to have considered and ask whether the Council Advancement Committee would be willing to consider that alternative point of view before rendering a final decision and making an appeal to the National Council necessary. They probably won't but you don't lose anything by trying. It would appear that the Council Advancement Committee simply looked to make sure that the formal procedures we

Hello NealonWheels, Good name, but you spell it wrong That omission is appealable, I believe, but I would rather suggest that it just be one additional item to be added to the information to National in documenting that procedures have not been followed. I wouldn't wait until National made their decision and then appeal again. I do have concern that a very one-sided picture is being sent to National and that mdsummer and her son should do everything possible to make sure that matters are considered objectively and fairly.

Hello mdsummer, These things are so unusual that there is really no "common" way. However, I would say that I am surprised and disappointed that your son was not given the opportunity to meet with the Council Advancement Committee. I believe that the National Advancement Committee works only on written materials. I would suggest 3 actions: a) I would ask to be allowed to visit or have your son visit the council office and view the entire package of information on which the Council Advancement Committee made its decision. My point is that it is entirely possible that they h

Hello Beavah, Bureaucracy may be slow but this is one where, if I were on the Council Advancement Committee, I would make sure that my Ps and Qs were very carefully minded. This unit is clearly very knowledgeable about Scouting and is well wired at the District. This is clearly also not a case where the unit has made some transparently obvious error but rather, the reversal will need to be a reversal on the judgement of the Troop as to whether Scout Spirit was displayed. No matter what, someone very dedicated to Scouting will end up unhappy. The summer is undoubtedly a factor but so

Hello Rick, Thank you very much for your very thoughtful and insightful post. I would imagine that most of us would agree with what you have written. The BSA exists as an organization and we serve as Scout leaders for the purpose of working with and helping youth and improving their citizenship, character and fitness. The Eagle Scout award exists as a means to that end and if and when becoming an Eagle Scout becomes an end in itself or detracts from a youth's experience, something is seriously wrong. Each Scout unit -- Pack, Troop, Team, Crew and Ship -- is independent. Its

I occasionally write about the time when I was a Scout and dinosaurs roamed the earth. This will be another of thise times. I remember going on Scout campouts. There were, of course, no personal electronics but we did have magazines and books. On occasion, some older Scout would bring pornographic material. Stuff like Playboy. Did we read it? You bet we did! As another leader write eloquently on this list, it was our duty as boys to try to sneak looks a pornography. It was the duty of the leaders to try to stop us. We both did our best to do our duty. I just mention thi

Fair enough. Thank you. 1) If your son completed attendance requirements and POR requirements at any time during his service as a Life Scout, that meets the requirement. It does NOT need to be immediately before the Board of Review. This is an extremely common misinterpretation of the advancement requirements. 2) Percentage attendance requirements are strictly prohibited, as I understand matters, for meeting Scout Spirit, active Scouting and POR responsibilities. Any attempt to impose such requirements should be reversed on appeal. 3) Scout Spirit is different as ranks b

Hello mdsummer, This thread started out trying to give information to help you and your son with his Eagle Scout process. It has moved to a diatribe against Scout leaders. That's unfortunate. Reading between the lines of your last post it would seem 1) Something negative, possibly very negative happened 2) The local Scout leadership believes that your son was involved and possibly was responsible 3) Your son believes he was not responsible and so expressed to the local Scout leadership 4) This disagreement has impacted your son's Eagle Scout process Several

Hello Thunderfox, With respect, I'm not sure that you're correct about what an Area or Regional Director can do within the Professional Service of the BSA. It absolutely is true that the Region can put an SE on the promotion list. However, the SE does not need to accept any promotion that they do not want. I am not certain that the Area or Regional Director can "fire" a SE as we would normally think of that. The BSA can withdraw the Commission of any person and then they are ineligible to serve as a professional Scouter in any position. However, I believe that if the Cou

Hello Thunderfox, With respect, I fear that the relationships you have listed of National>Region>Council>District, etc. are not accurate. Life isn't quite that simple. First of all, I truly dislike the term "chain of command" when it applies to Scouting. We aren't the military and we don't have commands. We have an organization structure and we have areas of responsibility. We have leaders and followers. We don't have commands. But also, there is indeed a National President and a National Commissioner chosen by the National Nominating Committee and elected a

Hello Steveo, You have made some wonderful observations. It's very tough for a youth leader in Scouting because, for you and for the younger Scouter, this may be their first real example of peer leadership. All their previous experience has been with a very hierarchical leadership (parent to child, teacher to pupil, den leader to Cub Scout). Now, the leadership is with another youth and it's a new experience. So your Troop members need to be trained on how to be followers in peer leadership just as the leaders need to be trained and it's particularly difficult if your Troop

It is not "wrong" to be in casual dress but I would say that it is very, very right to be in full Cub Scout and Den Leader uniform. I would also suggest that you be sure that the Troop knows that the Cub Scout and Den Leader are coming in uniform and that they are recognized during the Court of Honor and the Cub Scout, in particular, is made to feel very good and very welcome. If, for example, the Scoutmaster speaks directly to the Cub Scout and says that s/he sure hopes that he will join the Troop when the time comes, it may really make a difference. In uniform -- absolutely!

It is not "wrong" to be in casual dress but I would say that it is very, very right to be in full Cub Scout and Den Leader uniform. I would also suggest that you be sure that the Troop knows that the Cub Scout and Den Leader are coming in uniform and that they are recognized during the Court of Honor and the Cub Scout, in particular, is made to feel very good and very welcome. If, for example, the Scoutmaster speaks directly to the Cub Scout and says that s/he sure hopes that he will join the Troop when the time comes, it may really make a difference. In uniform -- absolutely!

Hello climberslacker, Welcome to the forum. We hope we can be some help to you. You have gotten some great advice. - setting the example - occasionally giving "goodies" for people in uniform - giving nice opportunities to Scouts in uniform I would add being sure to praise the younger Scouts when they are in perfect uniform. Compliments like "your uniform really looks sharp" from you will really make a difference particularly if they are being put down by some of the non-uniform wearers. You need to change the culture of the Troop. That can be tough to do but yo

Things worked out well, gwd. That speaks well for you, your Scouts and your Troop. Now you just need to make sure that the boys can make it to their Ordeal. And, if possible, make sure that your current OA members seal their membership by becoming Brotherhood members. Be sure that they know about Brotherhood membership.

It really is almost a broken record but here is what the circumstances commonly are in these situations: 1) Young Scout is active, advances promptly to Life Scout and begins working on Eagle Scout 2) At about age 15-16, Scout succumbs to the siren call of gasoline, perfume and perhaps athlete's foot powder. Remains on the Troop rolls but stops attending and participating much and possibly at all 3) Some months, weeks or even days before he turns 18, Scout or his parents want him to complete his Eagle. He likely finishes up his project, maybe earns a last MB or two, complet

Hello Lodge 489, One thing I would suggest that you and your son consider. If he is a somewhat older Scout, he might consider participating in NAYLE (National Advanced Youth Leadership Experience.) It is designed to run concurrent with a PTC course so that he would leave for about the time you get in and then be returned to you on Friday. IT's a great experience. He would need approval from your local council. Check it out http://www.nayle.org/ http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/Resources/NAYLE.aspx

I'll repeat the story that I have to post every so often when Eagle Scouts are mentioned. A few years ago, I was having a dinner with 3 other Scouters. One is a National Vice President of the BSA and received the Silver Buffalo at the most recent National meeting. Another is a member of the National Advisory Council, past Chairman of the National Court of Honor and Silver Buffalo recipient. The third is past Chairman of Training for the BSA, member of the Northeast Region Board, Silver Antelope holder and retired Navy 3 star Admiral. I was the only recipient of the

After over a hundred posts, I guess there are still a couple of questions: 1) How long ago did your son earn his Life Scout award? Was it prior to these periods about which the District is complaining? 2) Is the critique by the District accurate? Did his participation, activity, etc. drop off? That is not necessarily a disqualification but it can be important to fact the facts.

Hello Scouter 760, It may seem like throwing out the baby with the bathwater to you. However, you are not the boy with no dad who cannot attend a council sponsored event because he doesn't have a dad. There is nothing that occurs on Dad and Lad that cannot occur on Parent and Pal. Other than making boys with no dad feel unwelcome and uncomfortable. What contribution to the citizenship, character and fitness of youth is accomplished by conducting an activity which welcomes dads but excludes moms?

Great galloping heffalumps!!! Do we STILL have "Dad and Lad" campouts?? I served on the National Single Parent Task Force in the early '80s. We identified "Dad and Lad" campouts as a problem for exactly the reasons identified and suggested that campouts which were for only one sex of parent be discontinued. We also recommended discontinuing the suggestion in the name that it was the parent who would be attending. That was twenty five years ago!! The idea that we are ruining father/son campouts by doing this is so much horse hooey. Any father who wishes can take his son on the ca

The Scout Oath does not require us to be perfect. It requires us to do our best. You did that. You are continuing to do that by asking this question. You are measuring up to the standards required by the Scout Oath. As leaders we are expected to set an example. In my opinion, this does NOT mean that we have to be perfect. It rather means that if we make a mistake, we set the example of how one handles a mistake. We teach the Scouts how to deal with our mistakes. That may be one of the most important learning lessons that we give. I once yelled at a Scout in front of the

" *The SM put a new kid from another feeder pack into my kid's patrol. This boy is in my kids class at school, and my kid loathes him. This is the class pariah who picks his nose. My kid is not a snob, but there are limits. " Hello Daddy-O, This line from your post has kept gnawing on me. If I had been in your son's school and your son's Troop, I probably would be put in the same category. I would probably have been considered the class pariah and low status kid. I probably even was considered to pick my nose on occasion. There is an extremely clearly defined pecking order