Narraticong

"Don't these people know they're setting their children up for failure once they turn 18 and have no experience making decisions on their own and dealing with the consequences?" - This is the whole prgram in one sentence! Absolutely beautiful!

That in itself made my day. Then Stosh invokes the ghost of Greenbar Bill. All this two days before my troop goes to summer camp. Perfect timing.

When Mr. Hillcourt was back at BSA trying to straighten out the 1970's mess, he lived upstairs from one of the boys in my patrol. We sometimes had meetings at Jeff's apartment and a few times Mr. Hillcourt sat in. Just listened, and never tried to influence us. Unfortunately, I only knew he was a nice older man who wrote a column for Boys Life. Had no idea what a giant he was and that someday he would be one of my role models. Mr. Hlllcout had also been a Scoutmaster. His real world research perfected the greatest youth program ever.

We would be wise to be like Greenbar Bill and just watch, listen, and offer advice only when asked. God bless all the youth leaders who "get it" even when their leaders don't!

Ken

I think I'd like an Eagle to be able to wear his badge until he is 21. There are some of us who earned it just as we turned 18 and never got to wear that beautiful badge. It would likely mean a lot to those young men who work hard and just beat the deadline. Now, all these years later I don't have a need to wear it. I used to break it out for Eagle COH's, etc. But not any more. As I age, my Scouting game becomes more and more about the boys than about me.

Ken

Please all accept my apology for my earlier ranting explosion. To explain myself, I will just remind everyone that Scouting is supposed to be a game for boys. No more, no less. Sure we try to instill some values and the original concept was to do so through taking the boys outdoors.

It's really a very simple process. Boys naturally gravitate toward "gangs" and will develop and follow their own leadership. The goal of the adults should be to let the boys develop and learn on their own as much as possible. If we do so within a well run outdoor program, we will be successful. BP had the right idea and Hillcourt developed a program that was near perfection. And none of it involves a 360 degree review! The good leader knows the hearts of his boys and they know his.

It just amazes me that we have allowed the "corporate speak" to so complicate Scouting that we have lost focus on our purpose- the boys. We don't need 360 reviews. Our packs and troops are not corporations. We should be more like a family than we are like IBM.

My most effective self evaluations take place sitting around summer camp doing absolutely nothing. My checklist includes: are my boys smiling? Do I hear laughter? Do they bring cool bugs, rocks, and sticks to show me? Do they tell me jokes? Are they comfortable sharing their concerns with me? Do the early risers come over to my table as I enjoy my first cup of coffee? So, I watch, I listen, and I engage the boys.

Sorry, I guess my own work life is complicated enough that I prefer to keep "the game" simple. Find an old Scoutmasters Handbook and read it first page to last. Mr. Hillcourt was brilliant.

Ken

Greenbar Bill must once again be rolling in his grave...

The only 360 degrees that belong in Scouting are found on a compass! If Woodbadge would spend more time on making Scouters better outdoors leaders and focus less on "corporate America", we might actually be better able to recruit boys!

I wonder if tickets would make good tinder? It might be a more effective use..

Ken

Sorry Teamsanders, I am not grumpy at all! I am actually a rather jovial old curmudgeon. And I do hope now that you have found us you will stick around long enough to find the folks here are the most dedicated Scouters you will ever meet.

Would it be good manners to come into someones home as a guest and then proceed to make a sales pitch? I wold be disappointed if a guest did that the first time he came into my house. I might wonder whether he really liked me or just saw me as a potential source of income.

On another tanget, I can remember the day when we traded patches as a hobby. It was part of the brotherhood of Scouting. Now it seems to all be about scarcity, value, and purchasing via the internet without even a handhake to seal the deal. This saddens me.

By the way, we have cool new CSP's from the newly created Great Lakes Council, which I would be glad to TRADE, one for one with my Scouter friends. Though I suppose we will have to settle for a cyber handshake

Ken

Doesn't sound like the boys are raising the funds. Sounds like the adults are doing it for them.

Ken

emb021 is correct. People WILL ask questions about your uniform. It is reasonable to expect them to, since unless they are friends, they won't know why you have added the unusual pieces. So, as we expect others to be polite, we might also expect you to be polite and offer at least a quick explantion. Maybe, "In honor of my Mom and younger brother who recently passed away." I think you will find nearly all folks will be understanding. Those who complain need a refresher on the Scout Law. Personally I think it is a fitting idea. In fact the other mmbers of your crew might also want to wear a Wolf badge for a specified time period in support of you.

Ken

I am not by any means a "techie" guy. I don't own an Ipod and generally have difficulty programming my watch, much less dealing with all the stuff on my cell phone. But that is me...

We have to remember that this "game" belongs to the boys and not us. Their generation has grown up with electronics, and I am pretty sure they are not going away. One sure way to chase boys away from Scouting is to give the impression we are "old fashioned" and "boring". Restricting or disallowing electronics will without a doubt send that message.

It makes sense that we older adults need to learn to compromise if we want to live in a world of young people. Kids use phones and ipods every day. Get used to it!

If we are smart, and really care about Scouting, we will provide a top notch program that will keep the boys busy. If Scouting is as fun as we claim, they will put down the electronics. Or most of them will. Those that can't are probably not cut out for Scouting, and we would lose them regardless of electronics.

A couple of years ago, I had all young boys at camp with the exception of one older Scout who was the "Pied Piper". One night all the boys were gathered around him and he had them listening to classical music from his Ipod. Was that a bad thing? I don't think so.

So, I think it is more of a matter of perspective. We older guys don't like electronics in the woods because they aren't part of "our" game. But it isn't "our" game that matters.

Ken

No local option in this case. We stand for the same ideals we did 100 years ago. Local option opens the door to vast changes in our organization. If you don't like what we stand for, work to change the national rules, or go start your own group. One way or another, we must be heard as one voice.

Ken

Outstanding! Maybe the boys were running across the graves. Maybe they were acting as adults would find inappropriate. But unlike 95% of other boys their age, they were there doing a service to their community. My troop did very similar serverce during the tail end of the Vietnam war. And I know I didn't always act the way I now know I should have. But those memories stayed with me and now I have great respect for those who have served. With age and maturity, we can be pretty certain those boys in Scouts will become good citizens. The same can not be said of those boys who on that same Memorial Day, were home in bed.

I'll take my rambunctious gang of free spirited hooligans any day! They will surely be fine men some day.

Ken

Beavah hits the nail squarely on the head. "Just be a Scoutmaster to the kid". The wisest words I have seen on this topic.

I believe homosexuality is a sin. I have no doubt about it. It is my right to believe it. I also know that I have a whole pocket full of my own sins and where I would be headed were it not for the Grace of God. So I surely won't be the one to browbeat this particular Scout or any other. In the "old" Scoutmaster Handbooks, Greenbar Bill quotes BP as saying the Scoutmaster should lead by example.

What simple, straightforward advice that is. It might be interpreted as "Do unto others...". If those of us who are Christians would just strive to live a Christlike life by setting the good example, we might bring others into the fold.

As far as the youth in our units are concerned, they surely do make 180 degree turns on many topics seemingly every day. That is part of growing up. We have all gone through it. But if the adult leadership remains rock steady in our love for the boys, they will surely know it. And maybe they will appreciate the example we set and strive to be like us. Why? Because we have acceptd them and loved them equally on both their good and bad days.

God sees me, homosexuals, heathens, murderers, and even Democrats as his children and loves us all jut the same. Even though we let him down terribly every day. As Scout Leaders, we would do well to follow THAT example.

Ken

I don't remember about the Honor atrol ribbon. I guess I was never in an Honor Patrol!

But I do remember getting ribbons for Camporees, etc. It really made your troop and patrol flags look like you had accomplished something. Other than Quality UNit, our Council does not seem to use them.

I wish we would go back to them.

Ken

Our troop has not been big on ceremony, nor especially on singing. We camped this past weekend and the boys had a nice campfire. No real program, just a time of brotherhood. As it came time for all to turn in, our 14 year old SPL announced he was starting a "new" troop tradition. With that, he had us all sing "Scout Vespers". As we sang, the smoke must have shifted into my face, because my eyes watered a bit. Some times, you just know we are doing what we do for all the right reasons...

Ken

What a cool, and caring, idea! Scouting is really more about the fun, adventure, and brotherhood of these young men than it is about the elusive Eagle. Think of all the boys who have had their character influenced by Scouting. Who gained a lifteime love for the outdoors. Who have gone on to become upstanding citizens who participate in their government. All without ever wearing an Eagle.

As one who does wear the Eagle, I think it's a great idea to have a ceremony at the end of each year for those aging out.

Ken

I agree with mn_scout 100%. I don't own an ipod and can barely work my cell phone. But I am 52 years old and Scouts is no longer "my" game. Encourage the boys to come up with workable policies of their own design. As I have said before, if we provide an interesting, exciting program, the ipods will stay in the tents all on their own.

Ken

These "commemerative" rifles all look nice, but how many of them hold their value? Years after issue you can find them at well under the advertised price. I suppose if you are OK with paying the steep cost for the gun, and you don't intend to ever sell it, then have at it.

Ken

While the Constitution itself does not mention God directly, the founding documents leading up to it most certainly leave a clear trail. There is no doubt the founders believed the Christian God was the source of our rights. In turn, the state constitutions nearly all directly mention God.

The fact that the US Constituion does not mention God does not mean the founders were at all without Faith. It means only that they intended for religion and government to remain at arms length.

BSA,s position on "Duty to God", is a difficult one for many of us on several levels. For many of us more conservative Christians, there is only one God. We do not accept that all deities are the same. I am one of those Christians who believe that all other gods are false gods.

On the other hand, as an American, I believe every citizen has a right to believe in any god, or no god, whatsoever. Without a doubt, the Constituion makes it one of our God given rights (figure that one out).

As a Scout, I believe every Scout or Scouter is required to believe in some higher power as God. Reverence requires respect for the varying beliefs of our Scouting brothers. I do not have to accept their beliefs, but I do have to respect their right as a Scout to believe in a different god.

Is there a place for atheists in Scouting? If we are to remain true to the current standards of Scouting, no there is no room. It is what it is.

Although I serve on our Council Religious Relations Committee, I do not consider most of the "worship" services at Scout outings to relate to my worship of God. Most are inclusive of other beliefs which I feel are unacceptable, dangerous, and wrong minded. I do, however, feel it is a good thing for our Scouts to become familiar with faiths other than their own from an educational standpoint. It is always a good thing to understand the customs of our neighbors, though they may be different from our own.

Were it left to me, I might make some changes to BSA's practice of Duty to God. If we are to remain respective of all faiths, we might do best to do away with any type of worship at Scout outings. At best, they are watering down worship for every faith involved. At worst, they are putting false gods on an equal footing as my one, true God. It might be more fitting to strongly encourage individual participation in worship of the Scouts own choice, made with his family. Encourage a quiet time on outings when those of like belief may choose to worship together as a small group. A time when individuals can partake in individual worship time, commune with nature, or just take a nap.

I'll be 54 ish when NOAC comes back to my Alma Mater MSU (GO GREEN). Should I go? I'm afraid of possible flashbacks from the '70s if I sleep in a dorm room. Can they still try to collect on overdue librabry books?

Ken

So, it has now been several weeks since my original post. Still no response from either the Scout Executive or our DE to my very reasonable email request regarding why there has been no public response to why our Chairman was removed. We see here that it is debatable whether the district volunteers are owed the courtesy of an explanation. But for the SE and DE to not even respond to my email is at best impolite.

I believe I will forward the previous request to them and suggest that perhaps due to their very busy schedules, this matter may have been overlooked?

Yes, I am a lowly volunteer. Eagle Scout, Scoutmaster of the fastest growing troop in our district, James West Fellow, FOS presenter, on and on. At this point I have not scheduled an FOS presentaion for my own unit. Perhaps when I receive an email from my DE asking why, I'll just ignore it...

Ken

At our ScoutShop this morning I noticed a new insignia. It was a red bar with the word FOUNDER in silver. About the same size as the veteran unit bar and also apprently to go between troop number and CSP.

Clerk said they were for those who belong to a unit founded during the Centennial Year. Nice idea. But it would be nicer if the boys in our troop who founded it three years ago could have the same privilege.

Has anyone else seen these yet?

Ken

I tried to find a website or some sort of contact for Scouts of Haiti, with no success. I imagine it might be some time before they have much contact with the outside world.

But I thought it might be a worthwhile service and friendship project for our Scouts to make contact with them. Perhaps there is some way we can help their Scouts get re-established.

Any ideas?

Ken

From my experience, it mostly amounts to kids being goofy. Remember when we put fingers behind another kids head? Devils horns? Rabbits ears?

Relax and just accept that they are kids who, amazingly, will act like kids.

Remember, BP considered the original patrols to be gangs!

Ken

The Chairman of our district was dismissed from his position earlier this week. The actual dismissal was done by the Council President. The reason for the dismissal has not been made publice by the Coucnil. However, it has been suggested by the "grapevine" that he was often in conflict with the professional staff.

As I have mentioned in other threads, I am a strong believer that the professional staff should serve at the will of the volunteers and parents, rather than the other way around. Since we pay the bills, we should be the boss. But in too many cases the volunteers have allowed the professionals to act like kings rather than servants.

My question is, do the council professionals, and the Council President owe the remaining volunteers and parents in our district a clear explanation as to why the District Chairman was dismissed? And is merely being a thorn in their side reasonable cause for dismissal?

Ken

Our troop will be celebrating our first Eagle COH Wednesday evening. This Eagle also barely made it in time. An incredibly bright boy, he just had other interests in addition to Scouting.

This was my first Eagle SMC. I tend to take a more relaxed view of things. I did not make a big production of the SMC. I invited the Scout over to my home to review his project and make sure everything was complete for his application. As we sat at my kitchen table, the conversation started as a review of his project, then went into what he might expect during his Board of Review. We were two men having a conversation. As we talked, I would work in all the points I thought should be covered in the SMC.

When we were done reviewing his Eagle Application and project book, I also signed off on his Scoutmasters Conference. The young man looked a little surprised, but then got one of those "I get it" smiles.

We both knew we had just had a great "man to man" conversation. It did not have to be painful or frightening for him. Sometimes I think we make a major production out of things just because we think we should. I am convinced our relaxed SMC was more productive than had it been done in a more formal manner.

Ken