Narraticong

I agree that the war is long past,but I would suggest that we have much more than "lore" with which to assess it. In reality there are many personal records and autobiographies which shed much light on the mindset of the antagonists.

Just as there are usually many sides to a political question today, it was no different in the mid 19th century. Men of outstanding character came down on both sides. To question their intelligence or character is not fair. Certainly, the Southern military leaders (many West Point graduates) knew they were up against a formidable foe in the Federal government. But their loyalty to their cause was more important. Many saw a loyalty to a particular state as being superior to the Union. It is fair to question their political opinion, but their character is byond reproach.

If you wish to compare character, read biographies of U.S. Grant and Stonewall Jackson. Determine who might better represent the ideals of Scouting...

Certainly there are modern groups who have adopted the battle flag to represent their misguided cause. But just as the Klan uses the same cross which means so much to me, the meaning is not the same. Again, it is unfair to lump them together. To do so would show a lack of knowledge on our part.

I asked this week why our troop had not yet received our 2008 Quality Unit Award ribbon. Latest answer is that Council may not be providing them due to budget problems.

Anyone know if this is something I can get through the Supply Division? I could not find on Scoutstuff website.

Ken

First Class son, two other boys and one adult became the first Migisi Opawgan 162 brothers to come from our troop. It was a proud moment for this Scoutmaster on April 25. It's been 37 years since my Ordeal in defunct (but not forgotten) Lodge 9.

It is a little known fact that the admonition and all mysteries of the OA are clearly explained within the lyrics of "Louie, Louie" by the Kingsman.

Ken(This message has been edited by narraticong)

OGE, you are indeed correct about the saying being "perception" rather than "perspective". Sometimes my brain moves faster than it can do so accurately!

But, if you think about it, "perspective" might just be OK in this case. And anyway, you know what I think I meant...

My personal opinions aside, I'm trying to think of ways to have our PLC build a little cohesive spirit. Maybe some berets for just the PLC members (not including their advisor). I've also thought of trolling Ebay for some of the old "Green Bar" Patrol patches. They might look nice as the insignia on the front of a black beret.

See? I'm not toally against berets, I just don't like them for myself. So, I guess my glass is sorta half full!

Ken

Now, back on the wagon with all of the other "off topic" storytellers. Back in the days of canvas tents and wooden tent pegs, a little "late night unscheduled competition" was the norm at District camporees. One of the usual events was "tent dropping". A patrol of boys using their Scout stealthy walking skills might be able to drop four tents within seconds. In no time they could be laying quietly in the weeds, watching the boys from the rival troop crawl out from under their tents and try to figure who they had to "get even" with.

Yes, I remember some huge industrial sized smokebombs clouding up troopsites. Moonlight trips in a rubber raft across the local lake. Any number of "events" which I will never tell my boys about! But honestly, I always remember those shenanigans with a smile. And I guess if some night I hear some boys sneaking off past my tent, I might just roll over, go back to sleep with a smile, and hope for the best...(This message has been edited by Narraticong)

I guess I am not sure what advice you are looking for. The flag is being replaced. The "whittler" was caught and hopefully dealt with appropriately. That sounds like it should have been a conversation between two Scoutmasters. It doesn't sound like the "thieves" will be caught.

What else is there to be done? People do stupid things. Sometimes we have to just "live and learn". Move on and use it as a lesson learned.

I guarantee that is what the boys will do.

Way back in my youth, some guys I knew might sneak an "adult" magazine into their camp gear. Sometimes got caught and had the offensive material confiscated. I always wondered what the adults did with that stuff after taking it...

Should all reading material then have been banned? Is there a difference if a kid wants to read Shakespeare versus a Superman Comic? Same with electronics, in my mind. The boy, or his parents, paid for his camp experience. Isn't it his to enjoy how he sees fit? As long as he obeys "lights out" at the same time as others, is it wrong for him to listen to his music before bed?

A totally true story- we have an older boy in our troop who is like the "Pied Piper" for the younger boys. He is also an incredible pianist and has an incredible knowledge of classical music. At a campout last year, all the boys were sitting around a table with him telling stories. The talk turned to popular music. Next thing I knew, he had his cell phone out and was playing Beethoven for them to listen to. Perhaps the first time some of these boys had heard this type music. And their role model was telling them it was "cool". There is no way I would have walked up and told him to put it away. That was an incredible mentoring moment.

My long winded point is this- judge every case on its merits. Blanket rules of "no electronics", "no sheath knives", etc. do not teach our youth to make good decisions. All these rules teach them is to find ways to get around them, much like our politicians do today. Instead, we need to lead by example. Talk about when it might be inappropriate to have elctronics out and why. Then have the PLC deal with those who offend. In other words, teach the boys that the reason something is done is because it is "the right thing to do". The desire to do things a certain way must come from within themselves, not out of fear of punishment.

No, OGE, I never let my glass get anywhere near empty before refilling!

I just like to think of my "immortality" as being despite the silly beret rather than because of it. Perspective is reality!

Ken

It's been a long hike, but we are finally reaching our destination. When we started our troop two years ago, we had a handful of freshly graduated Webelos 2's and two active adult leaders. I became Scoutmaster and my coleader became Chair. He had no Scout experience other than being my Assistant Den Leader.

Right from the start, our one patrol operated as a patrol. They had no clue what they were doing, but they learned. The adults took training and along the way we brought in other adults. I observed what I thought were well run units and got close to their adult leaders, using them as mentors.

The adults had to do the skill instructions and sign off the books. Our first year we were hardly a "Scout run" troop. But they were catching on. The boys would lead ceremonies, plan campout meals, etc. Small steps. A week of summer camp and a few First Class badges began to make a huge difference. Two solid patrols to start our second year, with Patrol Leaders taking on more responsibility. But still no SPL or PLC.

With the latest group of Webelos crossed over, we now have 17 boys. Enough for two Patrols and to start some troop leadership. Along with four young leaders, I attended a council sponsored Troop Leaders Training course. The boys began to catch on.

Two weeks ago we elected a 13 year old First Class SPL. He chose a 12 year old First Class ASPL. One week ago we held our first PLC meeting. As Scoutmaster I chaired that first meeting, but made it clear it would be the last one I would chair. By the end of the meeting the four youths had really taken to planning. This was probably the only segment of their lives over which they really had control! They at first seemed reluctant to believe the adults were actually letting them take charge.

Now, they had been trained and had been given the reins. My only question was would they follow through? At our meeting last night, I started to remind the troop that the SPL would now be in charge. But they were not listening to me. Why? Because the SPL had already gotten their attention and was beginning the meeting... with his organized notebook in hand. He and the ASPL each worked with one of the 11 year old Patrol Leaders throughout the meeting, getting organized for summer camp. Neither the SPL or ASPL took charge of the patrols. They acted as advisors to the PL's.

It was beautiful to see these boy leaders all work together. Are they perfect? Not hardly, but then neither is their Scoutmaster. But they are having fun. And in the end, they will be more confident and better prepared to someday lead their own families and communities.

Bill Hillcourt without a doubt had the right method. Despite all of the electronics, boys today are still young men. They long for adventure, they love the outdoors, they are capable of being leaders. Give them the tools, train them, turn them loose, expect them to succeed, and be there with an open hand and a smile when they fail.(This message has been edited by Narraticong)

I am a victim of the beret!

As a Scout from 1969 through the 70's nobody in my troop would have ever been caught dead in a red beret. We "Jersey Boys" laughed at units who wore them.

At the same time I often served as a model for many BSA publications. Yes, I was much thinner, younger and had more hair back then. In any case, I am now forever visible in the circ 1973 Fieldbook wearing a beret. I can be found in the first aid section demonstrating how to remove something from the eye. I'll never understand why they made me wear that beret...

Ken

When you butcher that hog, be sure to use an official BSA pocketknife. Remember, "large sheath knives are discouraged".

I'm right in line with ASM. The PLC in his case was left to make the decision. In other words, to set the rules of the "game of Scouting". Sounds like they did a good job.

Laws and rules are created to control actions. As a Scoutmaster I feel greater success when Scouts and leaders act appropriately because they understand it is the right thing to do. If they only do it because "it is a rule", then many will look for a way to get around the rule. Instead, let's lead by example, and if we do a good, honest job, others will follow.

As specifically relates to cell phones, we curmudgeons need to accept that they are part of life today. I don't care if someone brings one along, or even uses it. But every tool we bring along needs to be used appropriately. The PLC, working with the Scoutmaster, determines what is appropriate. If someone is handling a knife, saw, cell phone, length of rope, stave, inappropriately, it calls for an individual, or perhaps, a group teaching moment. Rather than punishment, we need to look at opportunities to lead and teach. And the more of these discussions which are led by your boy leaders, the more successful your unit will be.

This is not difficult. It just involves teaching them, then turning them loose to find success.

Lisa, the one thing your boys have going for them is that you are involved with the troop. Maybe plan another outing with this group after doing the "Roses and Thorns". But limit the number of adults as a "test". Keep working at boy leadership. Many parents really just don't understand how Scouts is meant to work, nor do they care. Those of us who do have to keep moving in the right direction. After a reasonable time, your son will need to decide if he wants to stay in that unit.

If not, I know a nice little troop in the Detroit area who could use another boy and parent who understand how things should work!

Hurray! There is a new Ordeal Brother in our family. My son made it through the weekend just fine. They had a perfect night to spend outside. He and his buddies spent all day Saturday splitting and stacking firewood. I did get to see him a couple of times in passing as I was moving and setting up picnic tables. I never saw him eat so much as he did at dinner Saturday night!

I think somewhere during the weekend he got hooked. Along with his new lodge flap, book, and sash, he is the proud owner of a lodge t-shirt and knit cap. All of which were proudly shown off to his Mom Sunday night. We have Section Conclave this weekend and he asked if we could go. So I think that is a good sign!

Thirty seven years after I went through my own Ordeal, it was a very touching weekend for this old guy to welcome my son as a Brother. I am glad there was a bit of rainfall at the end of the ceremony to cover the tears that were in my eyes. Sice he joined Scouting, I have been determined that his journey be his own. But it is kind of special when his path comes alongside my own.

Thanks to all who offered words of encouragement during this past week and my nervousness.

Well, the day is here. We leave for the Ordeal in a couple of hours (after stopping for a big dinner). His attitude seems better and so are my nerves! Weather is good for sleeping outdoors tonight.

So, I'm hopeful he'll do fine. Stayed tuned!

When the Chief Scout Executive goes camping with the unit to which he is a registered volunteer, he can take whoever he pleases. I will do the same with my unit.

In our council, each unit determines the date the FOS presentation will be. Many choose a COH because more parents will be there than at a regular meeting.But if you don't want it at your COH, fine.

Who determines what your fair share is? And some units end up giving more than their "fair share". I did an FOS presentation a couple of years ago for a Cub Pack. Grandma was there to see grandson earn a rank. After my presentation, Grandma pulled out her checkbook and wrote a check for $200. She was proud that her son (the new Cubmaster) was an Eagle Scout and she knew firsthand the value of Scouting. We would not likely have received that check had we just told the unit "you need to come up with XXX dollars.

It's not a guilt trip. Major corporate donors just aren't there anymore. Our Council staff are all taking 15% pay cuts. Yes, things are tough, especially here in Michigan. But if we believe in the value of Scouts, we need to find the money to run the program. Family contributions are a major part of the plan. Those of us doing FOS presentaions are volunteers, just like you. I already give tremendously of my time and monsy. But I'll find a way to give a little more this year.

Ken

We had our first OA election last November. Three of four eligible boys were elected. The boys made, in my mind, the 100% correct call. The fourth boy is not a hard worker, not a leader, nor a team player. The boys know that and voted accordingly. Immediately folowing the election I had an impromptu Scoutmasters Conference with him. I was honest, and he understood. He had things to work on before the next election.

Go forward three months and we have four boys being sent to Troop Leader training. He was not among them and his Mom was very upset. I explained that my goal is to develop leaders, not create them. The boys did not see her son as a leader, nor did he see himself that way. There was no reason, at that point, to send him for training that meant nothing to him.

Go forward another month. Boy has now transferred out of our troop into what Mom sees as greener pastures. I hope he does well and blossoms in a fresh atmosphere. But I'm afraid Mom wants things to be handed to her son which he has not earned. Again, the entitlement mentality.

Ken

I'm with Lisa. My son wears his switchbacks everywhere. Scouts, school, church, he gets the wear out of them. I think he's on his third pair and I have not noticed any problems at all. Both the original and new versions. He also is comfortable wearing his Scout T shirts to school. It's just no big deal for him. But I think he likes when people ask him what Philmont is. There may be a little pride going on there. He is too young for a trek but did an overnight in the backcountry and also hiked the trails while I was at PTC.

A couple of thoughts to add to the mix. We have just 17 boys in our troop and about 10 adult leaders of various functions. We will have 14 boys at summer camp and had 6 adults who were interested in going along. As Scoutmaster, I did not want to see the cmapsite overrun with adults, so I limited the adult campers to four, including myself. I picked leaders who had the most camping experience and would have something to offer the program.

We try to do the same thing with weekend camps. Limited adult participation. The game belongs to the boys. It is their club. If we adults want to get together and camp, fine. Let's plan our own outing. Even if I am not helicoptering, trust me, my son knows I am somewhere around. He is never really on his own. As our adult leaders become more experienced, I intend to not go on a couple of outings, just so my son can have that experience. I will not accompany him to the Jamboree for just that reason. It needs to be an experience that belongs to just him.

So, I'm pretty tough on folks attending campouts. Unless you have a reason to be there and have something to offer, you are not contributing to the program. So you have no need to be there. Sounds kind of harsh, but in the end the boys are better off for it. Certainly that means no siblings at all. My 14 year old daughter is a great camper and could probably outhike most of the boys. But is she welcome? I don't think so...

Being a dinosaur, I earned T-2-1 sequentially. And that made sense. And still makes sense. As mentioned here earlier, one leads to the other and the skills are (or should be) progressively more difficult. So why did BSA say you can do them in any order you like? Certainly there is no justification that would point to better learning of the skills involved. The only reason I can think of is the tired old "First Class / First year" nonsense.

Some misguided desk jockeys apparently thought that the key to keeping a boy in Scouts is getting him to First Class. Those of us who sit around the campfire with the boys know that a good active program results in longevity and that advancement is a peripheral result. The desk jockeys in the early 70's had it backwards!

But, being a good Scoutmaster, I follow the rules and a boy can complete the requirements in his own order. But maybe, just maybe, the program is set up to work on them in the correct order.

I never thought about it, but apprently the word "Ordeal" can be a bit nerve wracking for a young Scout. I've been a Brother since 1972 and love our Order. My 12 1/2 year old son has been elected and will particpate in the Ordeal this weekend. My pride at being able to call my only son Brother, is overwhelming for me!

But for him, it is another thing altogether. We have no other OA members in our young troop. So what he knows about the upcoming weekend is mostly from me. I have done my best to be honest about the work, silence, etc. But he interprets the "mystique" as "secret" and doesn't like it one bit. At first, he said he would not be a part of OA. Two other boys from the troop and one adult will also be participating in the ordeal. Now, he is going to do it, but I am sure he is terrified. I feel really bad. But I know that once he makes it through the weekend, he will be fine.

I'm hopeful some of you out there can help me find the right words in these upcoming days to build his confidence going into the weekend.

I am only sorry that due to the economy, I can not give more to FOS. Next to my Faith in God, Scouting has been the most important influence in my life. And I believe that as volunteers, what we do for the boys is truly Gods work. As I give both my talents and my gifts to my church, I feel it is right to do the same for Scouts.

Each year I do a few FOS presentations for my District. Every time I stand in front of those parents I speak only from my heart. I don't need any notes. Every word is honest and personal. I tell about the sense of accomplishment I had in earning my Eagle in 1976. I tell in gratitude how my first aid skills enabled me to save my choking toddler son- who is now a fine First Class Scout. I tell in thankfulness about the influence my Scoutmaster had in my development as a man. I tell how it is a pleasure to be able to give some of that back to the Scouts of today. I am glad to remember my Eagle Charge in which I was told that from those who had been given much, much would be expected.

Like others, Scouting costs me a lot of money. I've personally purchased most of the tents for our new troop. Many trips to the Scout shop are on my dime. Yes, I've been to Philmont Training Center and my son is going to Jamboree 2010. Lots of money. Lots of time. But every time i have given time or money, God has blessed me in return. My wife shakes her head, but she understands that I am never happier than when I am doing something with, or for, Scouts.

I'll dig a little deeper this year. And if you're in my District, I will encourage you to dig a little deeper. It is that important.

I recently found the one Ebay item I have been looking for since the beginning. I have several old well worn versions of my boyhood troops neckerchief from the early 1970's. But I have always hoped to find a "mint" version to put in my collection. A few weeks ago I found a seller with not one, but two of them. I snapped them up and can now die a happy man!

Like a previous poster, I also enjoy wearing some of those old "throwback" neckerchiefs and patches. I'm proud of my old days and sometimes they are a conversation starter with the boys. It let's them know I have walked in their shoes...a looooong time ago!

Ken