Narraticong

I was in your shoes just two years ago. Our troop started with five boys and is now up to 19 active boys. We will celebrate our first Eagle Court of Honor this summer (one of our several transfers). So, yes it can be done. But let me explain why it is working for our troop.

First, we had dedicated parent support and a good feeder pack. We also actively recruit from other local packs. We had all young boys at first, but several older boys transferred in during our first year. Instant role models.

Our purpose for starting a new troop was that the other local troops did not fit our ideal. Some stale adult leadership in some cases and not "youth run" in others.

I have lots of Scouting experience as a young man. I am an Eagle and served several years on a summer camp staff. Also much outdoors experience.

Even so, it has at times been tough. I sometimes think the boys might have been better served by an established troop with a tradition of youth leadership. If such a troop exists in your area, I would suggest joining that group and put your efforts toward making it stronger. On the other hand, adults and youth are working alongside each other establishing new traditions. After two years we have just really established an SPL and ASPL and well trained Patrol Leaders. For the first year, I pretty much acted as Patrol Leader.

It is fun, it is tough. Would I do it again? Probably. Would I recommend that someone with no real background in Boy Scouting try starting a troop? Not likely.

But if you decide to go ahead, know that there are many friends here to offer support and advice.

Ken

I'll take a stab at getting us back on track. I have pretty strong feelings on this subject. In my mind I am not here to be a babysitter. My goal is to help boys become upstanding young men and good citizens. I use the Scouting outdoor traditions to do that.

There are risks inherent every time we step outside and throw on our backpacks. But if we present the program correctly, Scouting will help our boys be better prepared to face those risks they will come across throughout their lives.

Boys will fail every step of the way. And sometimes they will be moral failures, not just using an axe incorrectly. But they must know that in Scouting they will be given the opportunity to fail and learn from the experience.

The lessons learned from the consequences of a moral failure will do more to teach good citizenship than any of the three Citizenship Merit Badges. The boy who has his character put into question will quickly learn how his actions impact others and himself.

As a leader it is my responsibility to exercise good judgment. If parents perceive that I am not leading in a safe manner they have several options. They can vote with their feet, and join another troop. Or they can have me removed as Scoutmaster. Before it ever gets to that point, I would hope I might learn a lesson and fix things.

Every parent must make their own decision on what they want from the Scouting program. My measurement is the health of my troop. If it is active and growing, I'll keep doing what I am doing. If it is stagnant and decreasing, it's time to reexamine our methods.

Ken

My thought is that I choose my battles. I personally don't like video games, don't play them and consider them a waste of time. But the boys think otherwise. I am smart enough to know I will never REALLY win by just saying "no electronics".

But if I work hard enough to provide interesting and fun options, it's not hard to convince them to put the games down. We had one inter cabin weekend where we had a Checkers tournament. It doesn't get any more old fashioned than that. The boys loved it and played for hours. We made it the Championship of the Civilized World and really had some silly fun!

Ken

Yes, we seem to be dealing with at least third hand information. Who knows what the leaders really said, versus what the parent "heard" and perceived. So everything is in question.

As to these kind of events, our troop loves them. We try to get together every couple of months for a "fun night". No Scout uniforms, no Scout skills, just the guys getting together to have fun. They are still Scouts and it is a troop function. But it is a chance for the boys to socialize as they wish within that Scout atmosphere. Many times they choose to play video games. We have guidelines similar to the ones noted. On their own, the boys pretty well manage to comply. But we always have a handful of adults present who are actually engagfed with the boys and can see what is being played. If it looks inappropriate, we ask them to put it away. We never have a problem with them complying.

Boys will nearly always live to the expectations if they are clear and fair. It's pretty simple. Do they sometimes fail? Of course, but we learn from it and move forward. If a parent expects the Scouting atmosphere to be perfect, they have unrealistic expectations.

As to just avoiding video games and movies, my feeling is that Scouting belongs to the boys, no us old timers. If they are having a social get together and want to play games, that's OK with me. What they do is not nearly as important as the fact they are spending a Friday night together just having fun. No knots, no fires, just best friends having fun. What could be better?

Kudu just never seems to get tired of beating us up over the "outing in Scouting" issue! And for that I am grateful.

Let schools teach about tea parties. By learning how to function properly as a patrol, our Scouts will learn how to actually BE GOOD CITIZENS.

I really believe if we went back and revisited the ideas of Greenbar Bill, we would do just fine.

A few of our boys decided at one of our meetings to do a knot board. We have never made one before, and we would like some advice on how to make it. What should the dimensions of our board be? Are there any cool-looking knots you knoow of that we could put on there? Any help would be appreciated.

ASPL Drew (Son of Narraticong)

Ahhhh yes...the Leslie Matrix model. If I am correct, Baden Powell invented that model, whereas Greenbar Bill perfected it.

What the heck?

Are you saying that if you recruit the same number of kids from Cub Scouts for four years, you'll have an even age spread group? Isn't that obvious? Did you really have to do a study? Was it government funded?

Yikes!

Ken

You should have been over in East Tent City, John. We slept great that night. Sad to have to leave Saturday.

Darn kids, should be seen and not heard. I just wish I had some of that energy!

Ken

Misfits? Is that a bad thing? Our troop has now grown to 19 boys in just two years of existance. Several of our boys came to us from other troops where they just didn't fit in. One of these kids will soon receive his Eagle. Another is now our SPL. Yet another is one of our PLs.

No, we aren't especially "Scouty". We don't often have uniform inspections, don't require Class A uniforms at every meeting. But we have fun. We go camping. The boys learn Scout skills and are getting pretty good at them. Camp food still can not be considered gourmet. But the boys get along real well, care about each other and look out for each other. They are learning to "do the right thing".

One sure sign we are moving in the right direction was the comment from one of our Dads. He had attended a camporee with us a year ago, but had not camped with the boys since then. Last week the troop attended a camporee during which it rained quite a bit. Difficult conditions for a bunch of 11 and 12 year old Scouts. This same Dad was along (as a new ASM). When we got home, he commented on how far they had come in one year. On his first experience they were "not much better than Cub Scouts". But now, he was impressed with their camping abilities.

To this Scoutmaster, that is proof that they are coming together. I agree it will take five years to establish ourselves. Traditions are being developed. Leadership roles are being defined. Adults are gaining experience in how to be mentors rather than bosses.

Do we still sometimes look rag-tag and disorganized? Yes we do. But I am convinced that is the proper path for a boy led troop to follow. I am proud of our "misfits" and proud to be their Scoutmaster.

If someone has to "teach" a boy how to throw rocks, then we may as well pack it in. Sad state of affairs...

ken

I for one, expect my kids to have their cell phone with them at all times. Including church and school. And no I don't hover one bit.

Cell phones are wonderful technology. I personally have no idea how to work much of my rather simple cell phone. I rarely use it. I rarely need my first aid kit, either. But I am glad it is handy. It is a tool, no more, no less.

My son had his confiscated one day in middle school because he had forgotton to put it on vibrate. It was a wrong number call, not a friend. I had to go to the office to retrieve it and received a lecture from the secretary on how students are not allowed to have phones. I reminded her there had been a gun incident at our normally safe High School, two blocks away, earlier that week. Potential danger is always lurking. She referred me to the Assistant Principal who reiterated the "no phones" policy. I asked him if the School District was prepared to go to court to defend that policy. It seems the near victim of the gun incident had used his cell phone to get out of the attempted gunpoint robbery. What might have happened if the student had (against his own will) obeyed the no phone policy?

I, too, lived a long time without a cell phone and rarely use mine. But it is a useful tool. It's all about responsibility.

I am 100% in line with tombitts feelings about teaching responsibility through trust. The expectation is that a Scout will act responsibly at all times. The reality is that they often fail. But Scouting is the place where they are expected to fail, repeatedly, without grudges. It is a proving ground for manhood and good citizenship.

If a Scout uses a cell phone, axe, knife, saw, or matches in an incorrect or irresponsible manner, we have an opportunity to teach. So, I really don't care if a Scout has a cell phone in his pocket anymore than a pocketknife or pencil and paper. It is a tool that has a time and place. We would never stop a boy from bringing a book for use in his spare time. Why care if he plays the video games on his cell phone instead of reading?

When we do see him playing video games, it is a good reality check for the troop program. Why is he not more engaged in the outdoors or activity around him? Use it as an opportunity. Ask the Scout to take on some task. If it is really his own down time and he has not been abusing it, then we need to accept the entertainment of the current time.

I similarly had my young SPL ask about sheath knives. I often carry one myself. He asked if Scouts are allowed. My question to him was "1. Is it a useful tool for the job and not just an opportunity to look "cool"? 2. Will it be used responsibly? 3. Are you confident of using it safely?" If so, in my mind it is no different than any other tool. Am I taking a risk? Certainly. But the reward is worth the risk.

When I received my Eagle Charge, I was told I was a man "marked for life", that "much was expected". I can't speak for other Eagles, but those words meant something to me then, and 33 years later they mean even more. As an Eagle, I have an obligation to others.

There is no charge given to Life Scouts, Star Scouts, or other ranks. They have a choice whether they wish to continue living the Scout Oath and Law. Many do so and are fine examples of what Scouting can do for a boy.

The fact is, the public and other Scouts see Eagles as having reached the top of the mountain. We are charged to live up to that expectation in our daily lives. I like to think that most Eagles do. There have been several men who I greatly respected and then later found out they were Eagles. I was not surprised to find out they were Eagles. Only once have I met a man who I thought did not live up to the badge. Many, many times I have met men of great character and found they had a Scouting background. No surprise there.

If you are proud that you were a Life Scout as a boy, then I would think it is right to still consider yourself to be a Life Scout. I really would like it if adults were allowed to wear the badge of rank they earned as a youth. It is a point of pride and might be an inspiration to current boys.

But it is a fact that Eagles are different. I am not saying we are "better". Just a little set apart from the rest. As a Brotherhood member of the OA for 36 years, I feel the same about my Vigil Brothers. I will not likely ever reach that peak. But I have a special admiration for those Brothers who have made it.

Ken(This message has been edited by Narraticong)

I have a whole troop of boys with only one over the age of 13. And yes, I am confident that they would at least attempt to take care of one of their own before waking an adult. They do care for, and about each other. They are capable of much more than we give them credit for. And they surely blossom when we give them a chance!

I love my Yucca! It reminds me of me- older than dirt, lots of wear and tear, rumpled, but still puts in a full days work and will outlast a lot of newer gear!

I use my old canvas bag every week to tote my miscellaneous Scoutmaster gear to meetings, outings etc. I believe mine was an antique shop $5.00 purchase.(This message has been edited by narraticong)

I tend to agree with the idea of pointing out the error at a later time. Praise in public and criticize in private. It's reasonable to assume moving the flag during the meeting involved a certain amount of public criticism.

But as to tthe flag just being cloth, I'll take exception. I never served in the military, but I've been a lifelong Boy Scout. So a respect for authority and its representatives comes natural.

I'll remind everyone of something I hope was said at the beginniing of that meeting. "I pledge allegiance to the flag...". I would think proper allegiance calls for a concern for proper placement of the flag.

"Right you are Pack. They could be blonde bimbos that posed topless at age 17, got implants because they didn't like the body God gave them, makes a living posing in swimsuits and lingerie, and now claims to be some kind of Christian"

Not quite sure how any of these would preclude someone from being a Christian. Christians are who we are specifically because we are so faulted. We believe Jesus died for us because of our sins. In the same light, being homosexual does not mean one can not be a Christian. Anybody can call themselves whatever they choose.

In the end, it all comes down to the very personal relationship each person has with God. It does not matter one bit what I think of how you live your life.

This young woman was asked a question. She answered it honestly. She said it was not for her and that states should make their own decision. Now some folks desire to tear her down because of her opinions. And while they are at it, they take that indirect shot at Christians.

I really don't care if government decides to recognize anything it wants as a "marriage". It matters not. That is the will of the people in a democracy. But many corrupt societies have fallen in the past. The Bible is an excellent place to see examples.

What I do care about is when people try to force religious denominations to change their belliefs to fit the desires of todays society. Any version of the Bible you wish to study is quite clear on the issue of homosexuality. If you don't like that, then start a new religion. That is your right. But don't tell me what I believe must change to fit your needs and desires.

In the end, I am comfortable that God will sort it all out. I know that none of us deserves to be in Heaven of our own accord. I know where I put MY faith, and I do care about yours. But in the end, the decision will not be ours.

Some of our younger boys use tubs on "car camps". They work well for that purpose. Just a few considerations.

Don't buy too big and then load it up. Remember, you will have to carry it from your vehicle to your tentsite. Buy just big enough to carry what you NEED. Make sure it has handles that lock (clamp) onto the tub itself. Wind tends to make others sail away. This will also help deter raccoons from stealing the candy which Cubs will certainly sneak into the tub! Make sure your tub has a lip which overlaps the tub so that rain can not get inside.

Finally, consider melting a hole in the tub and lid just big enough for a length of para cord to hold them together in the wind. Just make sure holes will not allow leaks! And make sure your name and unit number are on your tub to distinguish it from others.

We have several boys and an adult who use the Alps Zephyr 2 man as individual tents. Seems to work better and then there is rooms inside for the gear. Beautiful tents.

I use the Mystique 1.5. I'm a big guy and it is a tight fit for me. Gear stays outside or under vestibule. But it is very light. Would not want to have to spend all day inside in a rainstorm.

Alps Taurus tents are the workhorse of the line. Not ultralight by todays standard, but still about a third of the weight of canvas tents we backpacked with back in the stoneage!

Ken

We adults get all excited about uniform parts and colors. The boys in our troop wear a mix and match of all sorts. I like to find old parts cheap in the thrift stores and help a Scout out who might not be able to afford the new stuff.

I have yet to hear a single Scout remark that another Scout is not up to date.

Wear what you have, be happy, and focus on the program. That's what the boys do. It's their game...

Nike-

Relax and be ready to have a great time. I was able to attend a conference last summer. Never went to Philmont as a boy, so this was a great opportunity. My son went with me and participated in the Trailblazers program. It was the experience of a lifetime for an 11 year old Scout. His tales have gotten taller in the months since we have been home.

You will meet some of the nicest Scouting folks from all over the country. For me, that was the best part. I can now count John-in-KC as a personal friend since we attended the same conference. It was fun to meet different people every day at meal times.

PTC itself is a cool place. I'm a rather round Scouter, and never struggled physically at all. Temperatures are warm during the day, but not unbearable if you like the sunshine. Nights were cool and great for sleeping. And there is nothing like hearing the coyotes just outside camp. Or coming face to face with a giant mule deer behind the Villa on your way to breakfast.

Let us know how the geocaching goes. We found most of the caches in the area during our stay. I'm looking for a reason to get back to PTC in 2011. Geocaching might be a fun course.

Ken

Ten years from now, the new boys in the troop will be wondering why that young ASM is nicknamed "Snot".

Nice story Stosh. The kind that becomes troop lore and may just help another young scout someday get through a nervous night. He'll know that some of the older boys have gone through the same thing.

Ken

At least now they will match the uniform pants when they walk around with their pants sagging so far that their boxers show!

I guess better green than Kahki...will Cub boxers be yellow?

Ken

A good example of doing things the right way involves GreenBar Bill Hillcourt. When Bill was coming up with ideas on how a troop or patrol should operate, he could have just put the ideas on paper and said, "Here's how you do it boys".

Instead he made sure his ideas worked befoer he put them out for use. He became Scoutmaster of Troop 1 in Menham, NJ. For nearly 20 years, Bill made sure every idea was tested in the field before it became part of the program.

No shortcuts. Learn to do things right, even if it takes longer than you would like.

..."describe your pattrol flag". This patrol did not have a FLAG. They had a design of what they would like their flag to look like if they ever got around to actually making a flag.

Come on guys, I agree with no more or less than what the requirement says, but that is just plain wrong. If it is a new Scout patrol with no flag, they need to make one. That is part of establishing their identity. Tenderfoot is all about learning the "Scouting Way".

For anyone, adult or youth leader, to sign off on that requirement before it is completed is just cheating the Scout. We all know in our hearts what the requirement intends. Just do it.

As I have mentioned in other threads, we are much to eager to skirt rules just to further our own ambitions. Why on earth would we need to rush a brand new Scout through Tenderfoot? Doesn't it make more sense to make him take his time and do things right? Isn't that a better lesson on how to live his life?

Unless, of course, you think he might want to someday be a member of Congress?