Narraticong

Yes Lisa, we will be huge. But I think there are some good opportunities to be taken advantage of. Detroit Area Council has great resources and facilities, but it's my opinion our staff is somewhat inefficient. Latest example was turning in an Eagle Application for verification last week and having it go lost for a week. Little things like that are quite common at DAC. On the other hand, I hear good things about how well Clinton Valley is run. So, maybe the consolidation will be a good thing.

As to Chief Okemos and Great Saulk, I have heard for some time that Okemos is in trouble. Great Saulk apparently runs well. My troop attended a camporee run by them at Michigan International Speedway several years ago. I believe there were someowhere around 6,00 Scouts in attendance. Everything went perfectly. I went to get some shirts I had to order and the "volunteer" helping me was a really nice guy and more than willing to find my stuff in a large truck container. Turned out he was the Scouncil Scout Executive. I was impressed.

I read, though on another forum that a lot of the volunteers from Great Saulk want nothing to do with a merger with Chief Okemos. They feel it would be a detriment to their program. I guess we'll have to see what happens there.

Ken

If you made the trek, wear it with pride! Congratulations and best of luck on your BOR.

Ken

Why does a 12 year old need a cell phone? I guess that is a decision best left to the boy and his parents.

In my case I give my 12 year old much more freedom than many other parents. You see it's all about teaching responsibility. By giving him freedom and letting him make choices and decisions, he learns how to take care of himself. A cell phone is no more and no less than a tool. His does not have internet access or any of the other cool stuff. He mostly uses it as a clock and an alarm. It reminds him where he needs to be. If he needs to reach me for some reason, or I need to reach him, we can do that. Again, it is a tool.

I have a real problem with adults (particularly Scout leaders) who use the old fashioned "because I'm the adult" school of thought. It is just plain lazy. It is soooo easy to say, "no electronics, because I say you don't need them". All that does is teach boys to sneak around and find ways around the rules. Or telling them to "use them only in their tents". Kind of like "don't ask, don't tell".

As a parent, I'll decide what tools my son needs. Not his teachers, not other Scout leaders. But I also take responsibility to teach him appropriate use. Manners came long before the cell phone.

As a Scout leader, I am not afraid of my boys having electronics. If we are running a good program they will be busy and not use them. If there is a miscreant, we will have a Scoutmaster Conference at which he will have a lesson on manners. Just like anything else.

For years we have encouraged boys to bring a book to read during quiet time. Well, times change. If today a boy wants to listen to music duirng his quiet time, who cares? As long as he does not disturb anyone else. We need to remember that the game belongs to the boys, and for it to be a success, they need to make the rules.

Ken

A new Council Scout Exectuive has been named for the merged Council. He is John E. Reesor. He currently serves at the BSA Western Region Office as Deputy Region Director / Operations.

Welcome to Detroit, John!

Ken

Electronics are here to stay. May as well get used to it. My 12 year old First Class son carries his cell phone just about all the time, by my request. But he won't wear the watch I got for him. When I started to get on him about not having a watch at camp, I was reminded that he uses his cell phone for both a watch and an alarm. I know for a fact he hardly uses it as a phone and almost always has it on vibrate. For my son, it is a tool.

We also must remember that being in Scouting is a "choice". If electronics use is a large problem in a troop rather than a particular couple of boys, I would suggest that troop needs to reconsider their program. They are choosing to do something different with their time. If you are engaging the boys with meaningful, challenging activities, they will not be playing their Ipods. Individual cases can be dealt with by the SPL.

Manners also need to be reinforced with young boys. Adults must set the examples. We should not be seen making and taking calls during a meeting. If my phone vibrates, I check the number at an appropriate time. If it is a parent or another important call, I will return it away from the meeting. Teach your boys manners by setting the good example. They will pattern themselves off the male role models in their lives.

OK all you softies out there. Time to pony up... The Scouts in my troop are really swell, keen guys and they could really use the popcorn sales. Or they would gladly accept the donations in lieu of the tooth busting kernals.

In any case (emphasis on the word "case"), let's see just how soft everyone is and send your orders in today. We can even take internet orders now.

If you order from us, those squeeky clean, mother lovin', old lady helpin', Good Turn Doers will gratefully express their thanks with the most cherubic smile you ever saw!

Ken

Showing my age, I recall that as a Scout in the '70s, BOYS did most of the trading (and trading it was), mostly on a small scale and our collections were meager. I remember trading for camporee patches just because they looked cool. No "value" at all.

My current observation is that there few BOYS doing the trading today, but a bunch of old guys doing the hoarding. It's really a shame. Patch trading used to be a fun way to meet other Scouts. At our summer camp there was no trading going on at all.

I'll admit to being an Ebay collector. It has helped me fill my interests. I still collect ptches from the Lodge of my youth. But living 700 miles away, I wouldn't have much opportunity to run across those patches without Ebay.

I do not that many Lodges use their flap issues as income producers. I guess no harm is done there.

It is just sad that few boys seem to care about collecting and trading any more.

Ken

I hope we at least get a creative name for our new council. If it is decided to call us "Southeast Michigan Council" then I think I will just puke. There must be some boys out there with fertile minds. I hope a contest is held to name the new council.

Ken

I would agree there can be a bit of "clubbiness". I found this when I got back to Scouting after a long absence. Some folks seemd reluctant to accept anyone new, especially if that new guy had some different ideas. In other words, don't rock the boat! Well, I'm a canoe tipper from way back and have been known to swamp a few on purpose. So, on I went with my new ideas. Still a few guys who pretty much ignore me. But I've found that in general, they don't have much to offer, anyway. Mostly grumpy old men.

On the other hand there are lots of folks in Scouting who greet you with a smile and a left hand shake. Latch on to those folks and make them you friends. They are likely the ones who make things happen.

Scouting is no different than anywhere else. Choose your friends wisely.

Ken

Earned my Eagle in 1976. My card was signed by President Ford during the Bicentennial Year. Pretty cool. I Don't know anything about Gold Cards except American Expres never gave me one.

My paper Eagle card is tucked away and I have no reason to carry it. My NESA card is in my wallet and usually works if I need to purchase Eagle items.

I have not seen the new card mentioned, but I guess I would agree thata NESA ad might be inappropriate. The again the old handbooks were filled with ads.

I agree with other posters that making Eagle doesn't make us any better. There are many fine Scouters who never achieved Eagle. But that is just the point. Having earned the badge does set us apart. We have achieved something many others have not. Wear your badge with pride, but with the knowledge you are now challenged to live your life as an example to others.

This happened just a few blocks away from me. I know the troop which owns the trailer. It was a pretty big story in the news when it happened and I think a lot of folks had their eye out for the missing trailer. Good for the neighbor who noticed the outline of the troop lettering through the quick paint job!

Our troop recently gave away an old trailer somebody had given us. It was an eyesore sitting outside the church. I almost hoped somebody would steal it!

If I hear more on the outcome of this story I'll post.

Ken

Is "Greenbar Bill" in there anywhere?

Ken

If my beloved BSA were to ever merge with GSUSA, I am afraid I would leave the organization. Whether others agree or not, my opinion is that boys benefit greatly from being in the company of male role models. In my little troop alone, there are quite a few boys with no male role model in their family, or at least not a good one. I won't claim the adult leaders in our troop are perfect. But we all recognize our shortcomings and often use them as teaching points for the boys. The boys see my struggle with weight and begin to understand why it is important to stay "physically fit".

Mixing boys and girls would cause any number of difficulties, especially those brought about by teenage hormones. Just watch your older Scouts checking out the Venturing age female mebers of your camp staff.

I don't care if Scouting is coed in other countries. Many of those organizations do not have the same aims as BSA has had over most of the past century. How many of their Scouts have flown in space? How many have become the leader of their national government?

Baden Powell and then Bill Hillcourt had the program right the first time. It wasn't until turned away from our roots that things went downhill.

No, let GSUSA run their own program as they see fit. Venturing is a good program for those interested in it. Keep it and grow it. But we need to start turning BSA back to our roots.

Ken

I found your points perfectly clear Eamonn. We had 14 boys attending camp this summer and 6 or 7 leaders wanting to attend. I know several were going just to babysit. As is my privilege as Scoutmaster, I invited those adults I thought would be the most benefit to the boys. Two of us in camp all week and three others spent partial weeks. Each was selected for the role they could play. Only one is particularly experienced, but all of them "get it". They understand that everything we do is about the boys.

Our troop will soon celebrate our First Eagle Scout. He will also leave for college out of state this fall and quickly turn 18. I have already informed him that he will be listed as an ASM on our next Charter. I'll expect him to get training as soon as he can. And when he comes home on breaks, I expect to see him. This is where our next generation of leadership must come from.

For a whole year I bothered our Council professionals with a wild concept. My idea was to start a local chapter of NESA with the sole purpose of gaining new adults volunteers. As the voice of experience I can vouch that there are Eagles out there who would gladly contribute in any number of ways. But many are distracted with new careers and families. We just have to find them and let them know they are needed. No Eagle worth his wings will say no.

I was very disapponted when the professionals saw very little worth in starting a new NESA chapter. I received lots of emails saying it was a nice idea and they would consider it. I also had lots of old time Scouters telling me it would never happen. Not being one to give up, I pressed on for a year. Finally, a search for Eagles was started. My hopes were lifted. But only to be dashed when I found the search had nothing to do with gaining new volunteers. The professionals were only searching for potential dollars. Eagles, generally being successful men, might have some serious money for FOS.

Which brings me to another point. Not only do we have many volunteers with no background in Scouting, the same can be said for our professionals. Many lack any experience in Scouting and just don't "get it". They can raise money, but they can't get in front of a crowd and speak from an experienced heart.

Eamonn knows the kind of guys I am talking about. They have a really pretty trailer with lots of high tech gear. But that nice trailer is totally empty of Scout Skills...

Ken

My apologies for the previous post! My fingers were obviously typing faster than my mind was working. The number of spelling and grammar errors is awful! That's what happens at 4:30 in the morning...

Ken

I agree their are at least two valid ways to look at this. At least in Michigan there is great competition among Scout Camps for attendance. There is little difference between in-council and out of council cost, so troops attend whichever camp appeals to them most for what they want to achieve. That may include the Citizenship and other "indoor" badges. So most camps offer them.

On the other hand, I learned another "new Scoutmaster" lesson this year. As the boys planned their merit badge schedules for this years camp, I was disappointed that my son had only scheduled three merit badges. He was taken Archery, Wood Carving, and Indian Lore. When we discussed it, he reminded that last year he had done the T-2-1 Pedro Patrol and had earned First Class. In addition he had earned five merit badges. In other words, his first year at Scout Camp he had worked his bottom off. This year he wanted to have some fun. In addition, he would be serving as SPL due to our SPL being on staff. Perfect logic from a 12 year old boy.

As it turned out, he was able to do some fishing, should rifles and muzzleloaders, work on a service project and just have some free time to "goof around". And did a fine job as SPL.

So yes, it is equally important for a boy to just have some fun at camp. Being in the outdoors and gaining some experience and enjoyment that way is an important part of our Methods.

So, I learned to is important to have each boy experience camp as he wants. I might make suggestions during one of my five minute Scoutmaster Conferences if I see things look lopsided. I would not likely refuse to sign blue cards if a boy loaded up with indoor badges.

What it comes down to is that the game belongs to the boys. Let them decide.

Ken

Personally own Taurus 4, Glacier, and Mystique 1.5. All great tents, especially for the price. The Mystique 1.5 is a great 1 man backpack tent. Not freestanding, but many of that size and weight are not.

First Class son uses a Zephyr 2 man as his personal tent. Great ventilation and does well in weather. I especially like the full coverage Flys on all of these tents.

Our troop has used Taurus 2 man tents for weekend tents for 2 1/2 years with no problems at all. We do tend to use Eureka Timberline 4 tents for summer camp just because they are rommier and we already had them. Some boys still opt to use the Taurus tents for summer camp.

I don't think you can go wrong with anything from Alps.

Ken

As a subscriber to the magazine, I know many backpackers today are not very accepting of large groups of Scouts camping nearby. Sometimes I think it's a bit of snobbery. So, I anticipated this article being in more of a negative light.

I was pleasantly surprised to find it was actually very positive in nature. The Scouts were shown as knowledgable, fun loving young men. The author found no need to beat up on BSA. It was a pleasant article and showed the boys had skills comparable to the adult backpackers.

With all of the negative publicity BSA tends to get, this is the kind of good news we need to share. Perhaps a few "Backpacker" readers who got their start as Scouts will be encouraged to sign on as Adult Leaders! "Backpacker" should be applauded for this article.

Ken

In our troop the BOYS (PLC) decided on how they wanted to handle tenting alone. Their decision was to allow First Class and above Scouts to tent alone. If that means a lower rank boy would be alone, one of the higher rank boys has to double up.

Scouts can bring their own personal tent provided they have set it up and used it prior to the outing. No first time setup problems allowed. One boy brought a ten man tent to Summer Camp last week. The SPL took one look at that package and sent it home with the Scouts Mom.

We have had no problems with Scouts tenting alone and I don't anticipate any. Like others, I don't see medical reasons as an issue unless it is a particular case. I understand the reason for the buddy sytem in some cases, but there is no buddy system in real life. Maybe it's a good thing to stop sheltering our boys and let them learn to handle things on their own sometimes.

I'm a 51 year old guy and every night last week at Summer Camp I had to make a 3 A.M. hike to our campsite latrine from my tent in which I camped alone. Never once woke anyone to go with me. Never got lost or fell through the hole. The friendly raccoons never turned evil and attacked me.

Frankly, I find the leaders and parents who are most concerned about the buddy system are the ones who have boys with the least self confidence. Is there perhaps a link? Safety is one thing and should be considered, fear is something different and needs to be overcome.

Ken

As I was reading this from the beginning, I was agreeing with many of the posts. Six is very small, unless you are just starting out. Our troop was in that position two years ago and as we leave for our second year of summer camp, we stand at 19 boys strong and about 8 active adults. We are one of the few troops in our district which is prospering.

Lauwits post explains a lot. A rural troop explains the small size. But inside the post are many of the tools for growing the troop. A good feeder pack with boys on the way. Leaders who are working toward Patrol Method.

Don't consider your situation "less than idea". I'd consider it the perfect opportunity to grow an outstanding troop! Run with your ideas. Read this forum every day- REALLY! I pick up good ideas here all the time. And the experience of my friends here has saved me from stumbling more than once. Find other Scouters to use as mentors. My preference is to latch on to some old guys who really remember the Patrol Method. If you present a program strongly grounded in the outdoors, and constantly work toward boy leadership, you will have Scouts come to you.

Our troop has had several boys transfer in from other troops because we are different- boy leadership. Stay in contact with that pack, especially the Webelos. Make them your buddies and include them in your activities where you can. But also get to know the other den leaders. Make coming to your troop an "expectation". But always recruit and take nothing for granted.

As a final thought, we have a Lone Scout program. Your troop is six times better off! Best wishes, you can do it!

Ken

I'm proud to say the tour comes from my home council, the Detroit Area Council. Everyone involved is a volunteer and pretty much everyhting was donated by various corporations or individuals.

The folks involved are all top notch Scouters. Many are taking several of their vacation weeks to do a tour of duty on the bus. There are numerous teams of crew members and they switch out every couple of weeks.

I agree the print does cost a few bucks. But it is really beautiful. I scraped the money together and got one when they first came out. It looks great over my fireplace.

The Century of Values Tour was a grass roots project. Frank, who spearheads it, has turned years of dreaming into a wonderful reality. He is a retired professional and truly has a heart for Scouting and the boys.

I hope more Scouts and Scouters get a chance to visit the tour when it comes to your council. Check the link previously noted. Enjoy!

Ken

My son and I had a chance to make a short visit to the Chicago Area Councils Owasippe Scout Camp yesterday. Folks were nice and it seems like a nice facility. They have two summer camps. One is a cook your own meals camp and the other is a dining hall facility.

Has anyone attended Owasippe? How was your experience?

Ken

Of course, wed have not been bereft of quality leaders for 35 years. But...we have sent leaders to training which totally misses the point of Scouting. Less emphasis on learning through the Patrol Method (Hillcourt) and more on MBA style "management".

Anyone who has been in the workforce will tell you there is a great difference between a "Leader" and a "manager". I am afraid the training courses of the past 35 years have steered both Scouts and Scouters in the direction of being "managers".

But there are some of us who grew up with Scoutmasters who were old style Woodbadgers and understood the Patrol Method. Our Boys Life had articles by Green Bar Bill. And yes, many of us are resentful of what the changes have done to the program.

Faith is a very personal issue. Just because a whole troop attends a religious service together there is no guarantee that any individual will gain anything from it. How many boys are sitting politely through the service but in reality are dreaming of the good Sunday night meal they will have when they get home?

There is no requirement or even an encouragement from BSA that we must worship together as Scouts. There are traditions, as we see from the many reports here. To me, it makes much more sense to encourage Scouts to practice their faith on a personal level. Encourage them to attend services for whatever faith they might be part of. Encourage them to bring with them on outings whatever religious items or writings might help them practice their faith while away from home.

If a group of Catholic Scouts has a need to attend Mass, then Catholic adults should be present on the outing in sufficient numbers to make that happen. If others wish to worship together in camp, then they are free to do so. But I really do not believe any Scout should be forced to attend any religious gathering.

As for "Scouts Own" services, I find them generally to be so watered down and generic that I can not find any value to them. I would rather worship with those who hold beliefs similar to mine, or to just pray on my own. As a Christian, for me to take part in a religious service which has no "Gospel" message is just wrong. But how will a devout Jew or Muslim feel being forced to listen to the good news of Jesus? I imagine the same as I feel without it. So to those who are truly devout in our faith, whatever it may be, a watered down Scout's Own is meaningless.

As Scouts, faith is a requirement. As leaders, I believe our duty is to encourage our boys to practice their own faith. As a Christian, I can best do that by trying to live an openly Christian life. I can be seen by the boys reading my Bible while sitting near the campfire. I can be seen praying before meals. I can be heard thanking God for the beautiful weather.

Just as we try to set good examples of the other eleven Laws, we should set an outward and obvious example of the twelfth. My boys know I regularly attend church. I encourage earning the Relgious Emblems. In Scoutmaster minutes, I sometimes mention how faith has gotten someone through a difficult time.

If we live as examples, forcing boys to attend a "Scouts Own" really becomes meaningless. Rather, let them be encouraged by the good examples set by their leaders.

Ken

Had our SPL attend NYLT at D-Bar-A Scout Ranch this past week. He's the first boy in our troop to attend the program since we started two years ago. I received an email inviting Scoutmasters to come have dinner Friday night and celebrate the week with the boys.

There was no way I would miss the opportunity to get up to camp, even for just a few hours. I got there about an hour early so I could watch the boys in action cooking dinner. I was very impressed that the adults were seemingly "standing around doing nothing". Just what I hoped I would see!

My SPL saw me first and met me on the path into camp. It was good to spend a couple of minutes with him and talk about his week. He seemed genuinely happy to see me. I let him get back to work on dinner with his patrol and went to the porch with the other old guys.

Soon enough, a few boys I knew from other troops came up to say hello. It made me feel good when these young men came forward with that left hand handshake, always saying "Hi" and using my name. These guys really are leaders in the making. To a one though, they each asked if I knew whether their Scoutmaster was going to be there. I had to tell each that I didn't know, but maybe the course Scoutmaster knew. He was wise enough to tell each only that all Scoutmasters had been invited, but he didn't know for sure who was coming. That way, no expectations were set for a fall.

I thought a fair share of Scoutmasters did show up. The boys were excited to show off their skills and well prepared camp meal. The SM for a couple of boys I know did not show up. So I split my time between my own SPL and the other boys. They are good boys and told their patrol mates how they have known me since "Tigers".

My first impressions of our Council NYLT program were very positive and I am sure we will be sending more boys to it in the future. But the unexpected lesson I learned was that the boys really do care what their Scoutmaster thinks. And it means a lot to them when we show that they are important to us and that we care about each boy individually. Without intention, I am sure I earned points with my own SPL and with some other fine young men. And maybe their faith in adults was raised just a little. I learned our smallest actions are noticed by others and may have a big impact.

Sure, I already "knew" that stuff. I learned it in JLT way back when. But having it reinforced by a bunch of boys is a powerful lesson. Treat your boys well, respect them, and love them. I am realizing now that I have not only one son in my troop, but nineteen! And apparently more than a few "nephews" in other nearby troops.