Gone

@Faith

1) On advancing the no-show boys, I would have told my CM they can do it. Unless the parents has recorded what the Scout has done, passing them to the next rank cheapens what the other boys in your den accomplished. What message does that send them let alone the kids who don't show and still get awards? Cub Scouts is not about the "trophies for everyone" mentality. I would put an end to that right now.

2) If they are not paying dues they should not benefit from your hard work and prep. I think sometimes people that that motto "for the boys" too far. If they want to attend parties or outings and they have not paid, simply deny them access. While that first encounter may be awkward, it will reinforce the many email and phone messages by saying you are serious and cannot be taken advantage of. That money you are spending is being robbed from YOUR own kids. Unless you are made of money, set your generosity aside and stay firm. Your kids will thank you and no one can question your dedication.

3) To avoid the confrontation the CM and the CC should be the ones to send the note and stand behind you. If they don't you have your answer. If that happens I would get with the parents in your Den that do support you and just let them know you cannot continue to fund no-shows who don't pay. They will support you and at the next event just tell the non-paying parents "sorry, but I just don't have the money to pay for your Scout AND mine." Let them complain, stomp and leave. It's YOUR hard-earned money they are stealing!!!

I forgot to mention that Shutterfly has a website function that allows you to create a secure website and then load photos, video or albums over to the site. The website is based on templates like Blogger but can be customized. You can link in Blogger and Shutterfly with each other too. Pretty cool. They have apps that allow you to upload photos on mobile devices to your site or albums.

I had tried a number of other services before we settled on this. Has served us well.

My Pack is looking for a new photo sharing website so I'll bring back this thread from 2 years ago (otherwise known as a lifetime on the internet:-). We have been using Snapfish which works well for viewing the photos and has a good price (free). But it costs money for a parent to download an image of their son. We want to move to a site that allows parents to download for free' date=' even if that means we need to move to a site that the Pack pays for. We also use ScoutLander as the primary Pack website, but I've never really liked it for photo hosting. Suggestions? Are the Photo Bucket and Picasa sites still the ones of choice? Thank you for any help, FTB[/quote']

 

We use Shutterfly. We can password protect the site so only parents can get in. Parents can download the hi-res images. If they want prints they can get them (for a price) or any of the other stuff the site sells. Has worked very well for us for two years.

Cute mozart - But this I think is a new discussion, if beside soccer scouting and other non-scouting like ventures, BSA should wade into quake like psychological therapy.. I mean we all have our various opinions of psychologists, but I would no more want a shoe salesmen or bus driver (or whatever occupation your SM is in) doing psycho-therapy on my children, along with a whole gaggle of quack 12 to 18 yo's on my child.. Guarenteed to do more harm then good, and in 5 tp 10 years BSA can have another flock of lawsuits on their hands over it, as these kids mature and sues the pants off of them.

 

If LDS wants to go into quack psychology, don't do it under the BSA label, just do it under the LDS label, after all they direct their congregation with a tight leash, just have them drag that little homo boy into a faith service so the whole congregation can "gently" play doctor on him.. Leave BSA out of it.

When I read the last several posts I had to shake my head. Why can't we just keep scouting about scouting and leave all the armchair psychoanalysis to the pros. I don't know, or do I care, when I knew I was hetero. Nor do I care if a kid is gay. I just want to camp, canoe, hike and cook. The rest of this is moot to me.

If dues are paid' date=' let him attend. The camp experience, as well the spirit of camaraderie, may motivate him to be a fully involved Boy Scout, or adult scouter. You just never know.[/quote']

 

Yup, if his dues are paid he's covered by BSA. BUT....isn't the Cub Scout path one travelled by the Scout AND his parent? If he's just coming for the summer camp and he paying for the whole year to join your Pack that's a pretty hefty fee.

 

If, however, dues are not paid up then he is not "street legal" as far as BSA is concerned and you and the District are at risk if he gets injured.

...........

[/url=http://gifs.gifbin.com/3204840swsw.gif]

As we are coming closer to Summer' date=' and thus summer camp.... I am wondering if anyone has ever used steel mesh globes as replacements for broken glass globes? I hear that they allow out a little less light, but are worth it to prevent broken glass globes? ...and yes... I know that battery lanterns are even safer.... but I somehow need to hear that familiar sound of a propane (or liquid fuel) lantern... :-) [/quote']

 

We moved to these simply because we were going through glass globes like candy. Scouts need to realize that these things get hot so be careful. But we let them carry knives, shoot guns and build fires so as with everything we do they need to learn safety (and first aid).

Had a chance to ask a few folks at our local Council about Cooking since I'm a Chef and will be the one teaching it. As far as they knew' date=' the requirements (and the MB book) won't change. Anyone already having it, will continue to have it for Eagle. Anyone taking it after Jan1 will still be taking the same 'course' and fulfilling the same requirements. Cool to hear that the guys who already have it can trade in the badge for the silver version. Thanks mozartbrau.[/quote']

 

The "rumor" (and it is just that) I heard was that the requirements may change slightly regarding the "lighter" hiking meals. Most trail meals are essentially MREs unless you go with the odd vendor that requires reconstitution and then cooking. But I understand those don't sell as well because few want the hassle of clean up while on the trail, and MREs are simply easier and these days pretty tasty. It that rumor is true they are said to be putting more focus on patrol-based cooking in some manner.

 

Glad to see cooking being elevated. Along with First Aid, Personal Management, Fitness and a few others, this is a life skill the boys will use every day.

Totally agree. But most crews I see head out are all about what is easy. Jetboils have killed trail cooking.

Had a chance to ask a few folks at our local Council about Cooking since I'm a Chef and will be the one teaching it. As far as they knew' date=' the requirements (and the MB book) won't change. Anyone already having it, will continue to have it for Eagle. Anyone taking it after Jan1 will still be taking the same 'course' and fulfilling the same requirements. Cool to hear that the guys who already have it can trade in the badge for the silver version. Thanks mozartbrau.[/quote']

 

The "rumor" (and it is just that) I heard was that the requirements may change slightly regarding the "lighter" hiking meals. Most trail meals are essentially MREs unless you go with the odd vendor that requires reconstitution and then cooking. But I understand those don't sell as well because few want the hassle of clean up while on the trail, and MREs are simply easier and these days pretty tasty. It that rumor is true they are said to be putting more focus on patrol-based cooking in some manner.

 

Glad to see cooking being elevated. Along with First Aid, Personal Management, Fitness and a few others, this is a life skill the boys will use every day.

My problem with ILST is that the document, while a fine outline, has nothing solid behind it. It leaves it up to the SM to build the presentation. Whereas in the past the old JLT and TLT had ppt and videos and DVDs you could get that helped you put on the training. Unless I am wrong (and I would be happy to be wrong) all BSA gives you with ILST is the doc below and leaves the rest to you to put together, no?

I read though this a few years ago when looking to put together a JLT course for our troop. The amount of prep needed using this course guide was astronomical. When I compare to some of the ready-made material BSA has offered in the past -- which could be used almost out-of-the-box -- it is no wonder few troops do ILST. Who has that much time?

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/training/pdf/ILST%20FINALS%202011%20-%20Item%20Number%20511-016.pdf

Page 6 of the 2013 requirements books: "The rank requirements in this book are official as of January 1' date=' 2013. If a Scout has started work toward a rank before that date using requirements that were current before January 1, 2013, he may complete that rank using the old requirements. Any progress toward a rank that is begun after January 1, 2012, must use the requirements as they are presented in this Boy Scout Requirement book." For the Eagle required merit badges it is different though. On the inside cover of the 2013 Requirement Book: "Starting Jan. 1, 2014, Cooking merit badge will Be Rquired for Eagle Effective Jan. 1, 2014, the Cooking merit badge will be required to botain the Eagle Scout rank. Regardless of when a Scout earned the Life rank or began working toward Eagle, unless he fulfills all the rank requirements--with the exception of his board of review--before Jan. 1, 2014, he must earn the Cooking merit badge to become an Eagle Scout." So you'd have to review each scouts sign off history to be technically correct for ranks.[/quote']

 

The Bryan on Scouting blog had a great piece on the Cooking MB since the intitial advice from BSA was confusing. So, if a non-Eagle Scout earned the Cooking MB before 2014 (when it was non-required), the badge can be converted to an Eagle required badge and used for Eagle. They can even swap their formerly non-required badge on their sash for a required version. Many of my guys got Cooking this past year just to make sure they had it knocked off.

I don't know what happened-but we lost a bag that had 7 of our son's merit badges in them before they were able to be sewn to his sash. He still has the blue cards and I assume they have a record through BSA that this was awarded to him. How do you go about replacing a badge--and are they costly. I assume we would pay this out of pocket' date=' although our troop usually covers these costs so I am not familiar.[/quote']

 

I would talk to your troop first, but I assume they will tell you to do what Koolaidman said and take the blue cards in and get them on your own dime. Most troops allot only a certain amount for MBs and replacements. HOWEVER, some troops end up with some left over stock of unclaimed MBs...so maybe they might have a few they can spare if they have them. If not, as BD said, go in and ask...they usually replace them without blue cards. Some councils may ask for a report from your troop as confirmation. If you use Troopmaster or some other software, your records person should be able to run a quick report on what our son has earned and been awarded.

 

Happy sewing!!

Like BW we do it twice a year. I use the old JLT documents and curricula. Thanks to the Internet one can find the JLT info pretty easy. I also use the old Leadership Corp material too. Our District level training is pretty bad so,we built this out of necessity. Guys who are 13 and have been through our TLT we recommend for NYLT.

@MattR: I believe Islam also is very much against homosexual acts. Most mainstream religions do.

Morartbrau' date=' I don't suggest doing a unit call out. Not only would a unit call out not be as much fun for the scout, pleae remember the Order of the Arrow program is a lodge program, not a troop program. A troop should not put on OA program any more then it should run a patrol outting.[/quote']

 

While I agree with you, when you run in to a situation where an adult's power trip will impact a Scout's ability to enjoy Scouting, I feel compelled to act. When all available avenues have been exhausted, and barring any rules expressly forbidding it, I don't see the harm. If we follow the intent, practice, custom and execution of the ceremony to the letter, then essentially all we are doing is providing a service the lodge has told us they don't feel they should perform for new members they will no doubt call upon to help THEM out when THEY need it.

 

So while I agree with all that you say, if the lodge really wanted a quid pro quo here they would help. The fact they don't, to me, they have abdecated their responsbility here. I have already had a few Scouts as me "What is the OA good for if not for this [meaning, to provide the ceremony]?" We both know the lodge won't hesitate to impose on my new members, but why should my new members help a lodge who did not help them in their time of need? I am trying to make this a positive first experience for my Scouts despite the lodge's apathy.

 

Thankfully, as I said below, others have stepped in to make the lodge see reason. As others have posted elsewhere, sometimes we have too many adults getting in the way of simple decisions.

Accidents where people get hurt is not the main reason they are stopping "Taps" but because "Taps" are used in the Ordeal Ceremonies. Each Lodge has been given the opportunity to write it's own "Call Out Ceremony".

I know...I am old school and was using "tap out" and "call out" for the same ceremony. Sadly, some over zelous people doing tapping killed a great ceremony. Whether tapped or called, it is the ceremony that is important.

Can't start a topic' date=' so would someone please move this out? Title: Survival EQ in a Hiking Staff Gonna build a staff with some hidden extras. Basic Concept: Permanently store small items that could aid in a survival situation Most items will be against the shaft wrapped under 12 to 16 inches of paracord. My list: Fish hooks, fishing line, snare wire survival blanket fire striker survival whistle (the thin flat kind) exacto blade I'm thinking of wrapping this stuff tight under the handle and forgetting about it. (I'm old. It's gonna be forgotten anyway...) ​I may need to carve some relief into the handle to accommodate some items and to keep the handle wrap smooth. The metal items will need to be rust proof (Stainless fish hooks, copper wire) and I'm thinking of painting the blade with a few coats of urethane. Will that keep it from rusting until it's needed? Or will painting it totally ruin the edge? Can you recommend a stainless blade that is thin enough to wrap under a grip, and cheap? Might recess a compass into the wood, but I don't want to weaken the staff. What else should I consider putting under the grip wrap? If this turns out well, the boys can make one for themselves. Should I allow them to make survival tomahawks instead of staves? http://www.hatchetsandaxes.com/bsa_scout_camp_tomahawks [/quote']

 

A loooong time ago, an outfitter used to sell lightweight, hollow walking sticks with waterproot tubes inside of it for storing just such items. Parents got me one...still have it. Don't think they ever really caught on.

 

Interesting update to that idea.

LOL.......this was a thread started by me in 2005 as a fairly new ASM in a newly minted troop. A lot of water has gone under the bridge since then. My son earned Eagle in Dec 2010 and aged out in Feb 2011 and is a sophomore in college now. I was nominated and he was elected to OA and we both became very involved. In fact' date=' I spent the last 3 years as a Chapter Adviser and began this year as an Associate Lodge Adviser. My son and I received Vigil honor together. He served in chapter and lodge offices and was on the chapter ceremony team until he left for college. Today, I could easily answer my question from 2005.[/quote']

 

See...all you needed was a TARDIS to answer your own question.

Mozart: Sounds to me like you got things lined up well. I honestly think the Arrowmen in your troop can and will do a fine job with this. As far as the lodge goes' date=' this might just be a case of it being easier to ask forgiveness than ask permission. I don't think they will worry about it too much unless you do something unsafe or way out of line that people in the Scout office start getting phone calls. [/quote']

 

Update: So I get a call from the local lodge advisor. He does not understand why the chapter guys are being so unresponsive. We discussed the guys I have that want to be on a tap out/ordeal team. He loved the idea, saying that council needs ordeal teams and liked our initiative. He is going to work with his chapter guys to see reason and supply a tap out team for our unit's tap out. Is going to work with us to build an ordeal team. My OA guys are excited beyond belief! There are clearly issues with our chapter leaders. Maybe they are overworked or some sort of power struggle going on...I don't know. Nor, frankly do I care. I just want to keep my boys active and expose them to new and different things within BSA that will keep them engaged in Scouting until they age-out. This experience has shown me that many of our adults get in the way of what our boys want to do. But all it takes is one experienced, long-term Scouter to step in and make things happen. I thank my lodge advisor...what a great guy!!

@VV: Sorry if I am missing your definitions here but I assume by "age-based" patrols were are talking about both NSPs and "younger Scout patrols" (11-13 yr olds)?

My troop uses younger boy patrols (5) and two older boy patrols (14-17). When we crossed over three years ago one of those older boy patrols basically never has camped out. Their gear is basically new and unused. It has been like that since 2006 when our troop instituted the current patrol construct. The other older boy patrol is a bit more active but dwindling. We have a very active younger boy group. My current problem is that our age demographic is shifting, so that the 13 year old category is significantly larger than the other age groups and moving those scouts into the older boy patrols will 1) weaken the younger boy patrols, and 2) will make the older boy patrols very large. Like others, our troop suffers from inactivity in that older boy age group. Obviously we are trying to keep the boys active, keep the younger boy patrols viable, and make sure leadership at all levels is active and effective.

To be honest I am thinking of going to an integrated patrol structure. My scouts from 11-16 are very active. My older scouts work well with my younger scouts. I fear moving them up will kill that synergy. We are playing with an HA patrol where you earn your way in to it through leadership, service hours, being active and being 14.

For us our history has shown that the older boy patrol construct leads to apathy and inactivity. We have not changed this structure since 2006 and everything we try to change that has not worked. Rather than go to a new boy patrol -- because as a unit we don't believe in that system - the solution above is the current idea we are toying with to address our issues and some of the issues noted in this thread.

Wow...yeah, that was pretty uncalled for.

So what is the point of tapping them out if they cannot do the ordeal????? Honestly I think you stepping over the line trying to do your own tapout. Unless they complete the ordeal within a year of the it is irrelevant as the lodge won't recognize them as members. My tap out and ordeal was special and left a huge impression on me. It was my first time in my scouting career being dumped in a situation where I knew no one. I would call around or find a tap out...... I would never put one on because a boys couldn't make it......the hole servant leadership thing gets lost in it.

You are missing my point. If I follow what the lodge is saying my guys get no tap out and only the ordeal. If I do things my way, my guys get a tap out AND an ordeal. I am trying to give my guys the same experience you had at your tap out, whereas the lodge seems not to give two shakes.

Mozartbrau: What you are planning is going to ruffle alot of feathers to start with. While the "Tapping" out Ceremony is awesome' date=' it's not necessary for them to attend one in order to go on the ordeal. Unfortunately at least from my very limited understanding of the Order. If they lodge wants to have their own little personal fiefdom, than besides taking the issue to the Lodge Advisor, I think you are kind of at a dead end. Quite frankly, I think there are better uses of you and your boys time than fighting with some tin gods at the lodge. Besides why not take that $300 dollars and put that into some fantastic adventure? Something the boys have always wanted to do that maybe financially was a bit of a stretch? That sounds like a better use of your units energy and money. Ass sst3rd stated, there is no prohibition from you doing your own "tap" out. And quite honestly, the lodge will never know you did it, and since it's not a required ceremony, it doesn't matter if you do it. Only a tin god is going to get mad if your troop decides to go that route. Yours in Scouting, Sentinel947[/quote']

 

Oh I understand completely. Let me explain a bit more. The $300 would come out of *my* pocket. The tap out is a special ceremony and I want the boys to not be robbed of that opportunity because some guy locally want to show how many badges he has. They won't miss out on any ordeal dates if we do our own tap out, nor will they miss out on anything else in our program year. We will do it in place of a troop meeting...toward the end whenit is dark and it will be a surprise. Twenty minutes and we are done.

 

My reasons for doing our own tap out? First, it is a very special event. In fact, many Scout recall their tap out more than their ordeal. Second, my current batch of OA guys would love to form a tap out team and to AOL and other gigs for Packs/Troops in our District so this would be a great way to "jazz them up" for doing something like this if our lodge got around to doing such things. Three, having seen our local tap out ceremony this personalized one would be better, more memorable and would show our Scouts how to do something well. Lastly, we are blessed with enough resources to staff something like this and not detract or derail any other event in our program. I have the support our the TC and the other Scouters on this...all want to see this done. The big issue was were we going to run afoul of the lodge...other than ticking off the Grand Water Buffalo. Frankly, his position runs a bit contrary to the OA in the first place, so I see this as a win-win.

Mozartbrau' date=' The Call-Out/Tap-Out you refer to, isn't really an official OA Ceremony. I'm not sure of its beginning, but it's been around for a long time and is a BIG part of OA traditions. I'm the adviser to our Chapter's Ceremonial Team. We do requested Troop Call-Out/Tap-Outs, and Pack Arrow of Light ceremonies for our district. I'm also a Scoutmaster, and a Call-Out ceremony is not required. In fact, you're burning up time. The year that these Scouts have to complete their Ordeal, starts after their OA Election. Our Lodge Dance and Ceremonial Teams never do Call-Outs. These are left to the Chapter Ceremonial Teams. Troops can announce their candidates right after the OA Election, or may choose to wait for a summer camp, camporee, or a troop's own Call-Out Ceremony. So yes, your troop can put something together. So, to recap; no Call-Out required. They need to go to the next available Ordeal program within the year after their election. Good luck. sst3rd[/quote']

 

Thanks for the reply. Very informative. We have our ordeal dates (4 of them) well in advance, so we could still do a tap out and they could make their choice of ordeals. I have tried contacting the lodge but they seem -- how should we say -- very controlling about where, when and how Scouts get tapped out/called out. We have 9 Arrowmen who have been trained to do the call out -- in fact, they want to form a tap out team to do AOL ceremonies, etc., for the local lodge. Again, the local lodge seems less interested in taking them up on their offer and more on controlling who gets to do tap outs.

 

To be honest, the local tap outs are a joke. Not well planned, very informal and not well organized. I was thinking we could rent some costumes, train up and do our own within the unit. I just did not want to run afoul of the many BSA policies out there. I looked and have asked around and have gotten the same answer from many OA reps and lodge advisors...no rules barring unit-based tap outs seems to exist.

 

@BD: I would love to take them to summer camp or a local council camp this summer, but the schdules just don't align with when these guys are going to NT. Also, it would mean missing out on a possible ordeal date.

 

I realize how special it is. My tap out (the old school kind discussed in this thread) was one of the most memorable parts of my Scouting past. I certainly don't want my guys to miss out. I can rent some seriously nice costumes (old hollywood costumes at a local store) for around $300 for 8 guys and we have a trained OA rep who did tap out as a youth. He can train (has trained) my guys and they do it VERY sharp!! We have a small pond near our CO with a fountain in the middle and a fire ring on the shore. It is secluded just enough to make you feel like you are in the woods. Perfect spot for a ceremony. I am thinking we will do this if our local lodge is going to be, shall we say, a bit overly-controlling about what they can do for us.

I know this is an old thread, but still being unable to create a new one this seemed like the right place to post.

We have a few Scouts who could not make our District's tap out this year (mandatory band thing). They are not going to summer camp this year because they are doing NT and it is too expensive for them to do both. District is not doing any unit-based tap outs but the boys really don't want to miss out on the tap out ceremony.

Is there any written policy that would preclude trained OA members in our unit from doing our own tap out? We have a Scouter who as a youth was the lead for his District's tap out team for 5 years. He knows all the current do/don'ts and has trained out guys in the ceremony. Other than ticking off someone at the Lodge who might want total control over what goes on in the District, would be break any rules doing this at the unit level?