Gone

I think it is an unreasonable request

 

Krampus with your line of thinking, which is flawed by the way....... Here the way your should actually read....

 

My boys earn tenderfoot, but the scout shop isn't open hours that are convenient to me....So I call the store clerk and ask her to drop the patches off at my troop meeting because my boys and I are too busy to make during their store hours. She says no......So I call her manager who says "why that is ridiculous we will have the entire staff show up and give your boys their patches even though it is a huge sacrifice for all of them and will impact their personal lives by taking time away from family and personal activities......"

 

This isn't about the lodge not offering the service, it is just not when old MB can partake.

 

I think my version is a bit more accurate example of what we are talking about here.

 

 

I get it.....MB is looking after his scouts........

 

Thx for the blessing I can use all I can get.

 

 

Is your need to be right that overwhelming you cannot understand that? Krampus was spot on with the analogy. You are the one who does not get it. I'll stop with that.

This is from the Guide to Safe Scouting (it is point 10 under Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings:

 

Single-room or dormitory-type accommodations for Scouting units: Adults and youths of the same gender may occupy dormitory or single-room accommodations, provided there is a minimum of two adults and four youths. A minimum of one of the adults is required to be Youth Protection–trained. Adults must establish separation barriers or privacy zones such as a temporary blanket or a sheet wall in order to keep their sleeping area and dressing area separated from the youth area.

 

So - the answer is, bring tarps or blankets to establish a partition between the adults and the Scouts.

When I was in CS we simply had all adults take YPT. It's 30 mins of their time, explains why we do YPT and gives an added layer of protection to you if something happens as long as you follow YPT.

Scouts simply don't need phones in camp. The whole reason for going to camp is to build self-assurance, develop new friendships and enjoy the outdoors away from technology. Leave the communication with back hom to the Scouters who are sending email updates and posting pictures online. They will get over being home sick by staying active. In my experience nearly every time I have seen a home sick kid be allowed to call home (not allowed in my troop, but have seen it many times in other troops) the Scout takes a nose dive and is essentially miserable the rest of the week and on the ride back. Lucky leaders, but they deserve it if they cave in.

 

For over 8 years now we have not let a single kid call home when homesick and we have a 100% success rate in them bouncing back within 24 hours. We do make exceptions for kids who have suffered medical emergencies. Different kettle of fish that. But basic "I want mommy syndrome"? Go get an ice cream with your SPL at the Trading Post and take a swim...the kid will be fine.

...and not just from BSA.

MB' date=' what bothers me about your lodge is that you haven't mentioned the *lodge chief*. Your young arrowmen need to give him a call and let him know that they would like to provide this service for your troop an any others as time allows. Frankly, this whole conversation should be between the youth, and you, your "expert scouter", and the advisor need to take a step back, encourage communication on the youth level, and support whatever decision the Chief and his officers approve. Chances are, your boys will like the results, and they don't, they can suck it up for now and run for office next year. If either you or the advisor find yourselves getting in the way of this, you both need to find a half-hour at a nice coffee shop and sit and chill for awhile.[/quote']

 

Done that. The advisor basically overrode the youth leadership. I *only* step in when all avenues of the youth communication loop have been exhausted or I see a someone not acting in the best interest of the youth. I was on the sidelines of this until my guys came to me asking for help. After hearing what transpired I stepped in. As I said below, the youth on all sides want to do this. We just have an entrenched adult on a powertrip here. Thankfully, he's been overridden and the services that should be offered are being offered again. This ain't my first rodeo, so I know when to step back and when to step in.

 

 

Our troop is less than a year old. We've been meeting since September. The boys have been advancing slowly as they start to figure out the they are responsible for their advancement and not the adults. We are finally transitioning to boy led meetings. The first one we had scheduled was a two weeks ago. The SPL/PL was not prepared' date=' however our SM had to do a summer camp presentation so we did that instead. The SPL/PL was prepared for the last meeting we had, and things went pretty well. For our next meeting, I am 80% confident the boy who is supposed to do the activity/skills introduction will not be prepared. I don't want to "reward" a scout being unprepared for his meeting by having ad-hoc games or an engaging adult-led backup plan, however I don't really want the other scouts to have an unproductive meeting either. So my "plan B" is "uniform maintenance". If the boy leader is unprepared, then everyone will sit down and learn to sew on a patch and how to make a small sewing kit for camping. I think it kills two birds: 1. There should be no excuse for missing patches on uniforms. 2. It should be unpleasant enough for the boys to see that we won't have a fun program if they don't prepare. I'd like to hear what you guys think, as I feel a little guilty of violating the patrol method in even thinking of a plan B, but the boys are still new to taking on the responsibilities of boy-led. What do you think? [/quote']

 

You are in a tough place. I agree that the boys need to run the show and that they should not be bailed-out, but your tough place is that you have a small, new troop and you risk developing apathy early and that is no good either.

 

If you have not had a troop leader training session that might help. Use the "teach a man to fish" model:

 

- Show them the tools they have at their disposal like Troop Program Features (vols1-3) or Troop Program Resources

http://www.scouting.org/FILESTORE/pdf/33110_WEB.pdf, http://www.scouting.org/FILESTORE/pdf/33588.pdf

 

- Walk the SPL through how to run a PLC, how to organize an agenda, how to fill out a meeting planning sheet, etc.

 

- Advise them to have primary, seconday and tertiary plans in case something (or someone) falls through.

 

Not sure if you trained him up and gave him the tools to do his job, but if you have then the next step is a milestone check or perhaps a refresher. Same goes for the rest of the PLC. They need to take ownership but they need the skills to succeed first. Once this is established that SPL will set the tone for future leaders.‎

Scouts simply don't need phones in camp. The whole reason for going to camp is to build self-assurance, develop new friendships and enjoy the outdoors away from technology. Leave the communication with back hom to the Scouters who are sending email updates and posting pictures online. They will get over being home sick by staying active. In my experience nearly every time I have seen a home sick kid be allowed to call home (not allowed in my troop, but have seen it many times in other troops) the Scout takes a nose dive and is essentially miserable the rest of the week and on the ride back. Lucky leaders, but they deserve it if they cave in.

For over 8 years now we have not let a single kid call home when homesick and we have a 100% success rate in them bouncing back within 24 hours. We do make exceptions for kids who have suffered medical emergencies. Different kettle of fish that. But basic "I want mommy syndrome"? Go get an ice cream with your SPL at the Trading Post and take a swim...the kid will be fine.

Are there any opinions on whether it would be better to attend WFA as offered through BSA (Council sponsored) or through non-BSA SOLO Wilderness First aid Teacher? Just wondering about others experiences. I'll need this by next June for Philmont.

See what Kayaker wrote as this is spot on. The course I took was through the Red Cross but the staff have been doing it for many, many years and have themselves gone through the instructor programs at those higher-end schools. They in turn bring in experts who teach ski patrols, mountain rescue, S&R teams, etc. The lead is a WFA physician and the staff are well prepared. The realism was incredible. We researched which course to take as Kayaker recommends, spoke to the staff and were satisfied we were getting a great course for a decent price. Was not cheap but well worth it.

Oddly enough, I found much of what they taught as "advanced first aid" was similar (in part) to what we used to be taught in BSA all those many years ago. The other advanced first aid was truley wilderness and remote centric.

Took my recert for WRFA recently. I forgot what a great course this is. If your area offers it or you can get to one that does I highly recommend it. The hands-on scenarios and classroom work is invaluable to crews and units that spend time in the back country, as well as just basic unit camping and outings.

Ya MB whose on the adult power trip. I think your stepping way over the line on this..... So far we have three of us telling you don't do it. Your taking a council/district level thing and bringing it to the troop level......It was not intended to be that way...... They way I view the OA is the next step in scouting for the youth. They are beginning to spread their wings and experience life beyond the microsociety of the troop. I am excited for my boys...All of them have registered for the Ordeal' date=' I am going to drive them out friday night and bring them back sunday morning. [/quote']

 

And what you are missing is actually the point of my post, so let me say it very slowly for you: What I am doing is 1) asking for a service that is SUPPOSED to be offered by our Lodge, 2) is using the channels and lines of communication AND THE PROCESS ESTABLISHED for addressing issues like this, 3) trying to put together an OA ceremony team in my troop (which is a needed and encouraged function) to help the district and Lodge. You seem to be confusing the tap out ceremony with the ordeal. My guys will still do ordeal.

 

Sorry you cannot grasp what is going on here. Maybe your lodge is different. However, the folks *I* am talking to in my lodge are telling me that this lodge advisor is very much on a power trip, is NOT providing the services that have been provided in the past historically, is doing nothing to promote the addition of new ceremony teams and is basically running the lodge from the adult level and NOT allowing the boys to run it. I am trying to change that if I can and my boys are involved in this process.

 

The fact you see that as me being on the power trip is your problem.

guess I need to just be happy with the White Castle of scouting programs and not aspire to the Brown Derby scout program.

It is always the quality, not the quantity or the cost. Higher costs does not always = better.

Some of the best times my guys have are with a fishing pole on a sunny day on a New York lake. Cost: About $10.

So why the non-high adventure base big trips???????

 

So why not the non-HA big trips?

 

If the boys can plan it, fund it, execute it, why not? I don't agree with how some of the mega troops do things where the parents run and fund everything like a mini army. But those of us who raise our own money and do our own planning, why not do a few big trips every year or so?

So why the non-high adventure base big trips???????

So why not the non-HA big trips?

If the boys can plan it, fund it, execute it, why not? I don't agree with how some of the mega troops do things where the parents run and fund everything like a mini army. But those of us who raise our own money and do our own planning, why not do a few big trips every year or so?

We met tonight and he actually brought up the dues issue (and I hadn't said a word directly to him yet.) They said they viewed it as a failure overall (for multiple dens) and were going to cease with asking for it. I did not realize it was in a 'test' phase so that was good to hear. They said a more direct approach would be needed (if not from den level, pack level.) He also pointed out that many den leaders had to cover for members (glad to know it isn't just me, some of the other den leaders aren't as chatty so I wasn't sure on the full situations of course) and he did not what that to continue to be the case (if nothing else, a pay by case basis depending on how much is needed, how many show up, etc.) Glad to know we'll have options at least, I enjoyed his entire approach to the matters at hand tonight - straight forward and to the point.

One thing I did back in the day was to have a meeting with my parents before the Scout year began. We would discuss the upcoming Wolf or Bear schedule, what events we wanted to do, projects, crafts, etc., and try to ball park how much they would cost. I would then put all of that on the schedule and assign different families to purchase the stuff for each mtg. The money was taken out of the Den fund. This way everyone had buy-in to the planning, the costs, the process and the execution. No one could ever say "I did not approve that" and they had a stake in the game by needing to buy something. This helped keep the parents involved. If you don't do something like this now maybe this will help. I will say that I still had folks not fully engage or forget, but I always had a back-up plan. This process did make life easier for me because no one could deny they were involved.

So what your saying is the OA tap out ceremony is less important than what ever else is scheduled??????? Seems to me if it really mattered to the scouts they would adjust their schedule since you already told them they were elected.

No. What I am saying is that THE LODGE had only one tap out scheduled at camporee. My guys could not attend. Let the the LODGE know that months in advance. Their reply was "tough luck". *I* -- working with my Scouts -- offered the Lodge other options, all of which were viable options that had been used in the past, only for them to say "tough luck". Summer camp tap out is not an option for my guys, period. Yes our summer camp will offer it but since all of my guys are going to Philmont they cannot afford to attend both. So, having explored ALL option given to me by the LODGE, I am stuck with two choices: 1) Force guys to go to summer camp they cannot afford, or 2) not have a tap out.

When the OA folks handed me the pink sheet from our election, they told me the results were to be kept secret.

Yeah, and we do keep them secret. But I also asked the OA team lead if I can notify the parents and ask them to keep the secret -- simply because trying to arrange the schedules of 10+ guys is next to impossible. The OA team told me, "Sure. Parents are usually informed so they can get the Scouts to the event." While many Councils do tap out at camporee, not all of them do. So that's why parents are told. My dad was told all those years ago when I was elected, so not so sure telling parents is a new thing.

Yes helicopter scouting.......blades beating smothering the scouts on their journey. Hovering directly over them micromanaging their scouting careers.........Making sure they have cub scout style advancement ceremonies........ So is your Son one of the boys missing the tap out???????

So are you saying that *I* am doing that? If so you could not be further from the mark. I am trying to make sure my Scouts don't miss out on something just because an adult is on a power trip and does not want to step out of his mold. Other Lodges have told me they provide the very service I am asking for. Other units have told me they have tap out teams, which are part of their Lodge, that do other unit and their own tap outs. So if I was asking for something that did not exist I could see your consternation. But as I have said repeatedly in this thread, my solution is based on practices in other Lodges. Heck, my own Lodge used to do this very service before Mr. X took over and started to run things like 1939 Germany. Hyperbole? Sure! But after months of adults getting in the way, I am working WITH my boys to show them how to work the system in their favor.

And no, for the record, my kid is not one of the boys. I get your implication -- I am doing this because my son is missing out on something. Not sure why you have such a bee in your bonnet on this. My guys want to be active in OA. My guys want to form a tap out and ordeal team. My guys do not want to miss their tap out. My guys were unable to attend the *one* Lodge tap out. My guys know that other Lodges (and their own Lodge used to) provide tap outs for units who could not make the planned tap out. My guys know that an adult is on a power trip and rather than helping them with these things -- which is what OA is partially about anyway -- this same person simply likes to say no.

So *I* am teaching my guys that sometimes in Scouting you run into adults who have given up, don't care to do anything, don't care to help and will be road blocks to their success....and showing them how to handle such situations using the system. This is a life lesson for them and, frankly, what an ASM is for.

I am not looking for your blessing on what I am doing. I am merely posting here so other adult leaders who may encouter such entrenched adults within BSA will know that there are options available to them that the BSA condones and supports, and so they will know that they can overcome an obstacle when someone says "no" when BSA actually says "yes". I think that's what they call leadership.

We do a big trip about once every year or two. We got,out of council for summer camp because our camp is not very good. Never by plane. Cars or if we are lucky and raised good money we use a bus.

Yes' date=' our CM gave them their patches at the blue and gold ceremony. No, I did not agree with it. The next nearest pack is over an hour's drive away from us and sadly we cannot afford to travel there I did look into it awhile back. We have an amazing group otherwise (and the cubmaster who told me to do that is the one who recently stepped down.) I'm hoping the new cubmaster will not go that route. I already go rounds with my boss asking for the few hours off I need to attend here in town, throw in an extra 2 hours each day to get there and back and I just know it won't happen.[/quote']

 

Sorry to hear you don't have options. Then work with the new CM like folks are saying and make sure they know your position. You simply cannot afford to keep paying for people who are leeching off of your good efforts. At some point they need to step up or step away.

I took my scouts that got elected to another districts spring camporee to get tapped out last weekend......Our district did not have a spring camporee and our chapter did not hold a tap out..... Checked with the lodge chief and he said it would be fine...... My point is this ain't cub scouting..... let the boys run the program even the lodge....... If you feel compelled become your chapter adult advisor and fix it from within......Not just do a ceremony for your boys as an outsider. Helicopter scouting at its finest.

So to your points:

- Tried all other Districts and even other councils locally, no one is having a tap out that we can make.

- Have talked with the Lodge chief (and Chapter Advisor) until I was blue in the face and he simply says "tough luck". So much for working with adults.

- Checked with the youth lead in the Lodge and he is fine with doing a cermony for us, the ADULT won't let him. Again, adults getting in the way.

- Checked with the Lodge Advisor (who runs many chapters) and he said the Chapter Advisor was being silly and that they should do the ceremony for us.

- Tap out teams come from units like mine all the time and compete locally, regionally and nationally. Many times they put on their own unit's events, so this is nothing our of the ordinary.

- The solution I landed on was 1) build a good relationship with the Lodge Advisor, 2) am building a tap out team to compete nationally, 3) have increased interest in the OA within my unit, 4) have increased the interest of the Arrowmen in my unit to become more involved in the OA, 5) have further earned the respect of my unit by sticking up for the boys when I felt we were right.

So in the end I accomplished what was right for the boys AND had teh boys involved in the process. Not sure what you mean by "helicopter scouting" but if that is what I did I will take that any day over sitting on my butt and letting some adult on a power trip take a Scouting memory away from my boys.

we have one event in june and one in july. Usually bowling or laser tag or something else easy that the kids can show up to and we can have a good time no matter how many are able to make it.

Laser tag?? Might want to check out the thread below. Laser tag and paint ball are no-nos officially.

http://www.scouter.com/forum/cub-scouts/16020-laser-tag

Now, if you guys want to meet at Main Event or wherever as a group of people who just happen to be in Scouts together, that's up to you.

A camp that I recently went to had a "No Liquid Fuels - Propane Only" rule.... Is this a camp rule (High Fire Risk area)?? or is this a BSA rule ? Are Scouts allowed to use liquid fuel stoves and lanterns? or only propane ?

Liquid fuel (white gas) is allowed and sold at Philmont. My guess it each Council camp, state or National park will have their own rules. To my knowledge BSA has specifically stated certain stoves and fuel types are not allowed, such as alcohol-based stoves.

Here's a link to the only policy I have seen: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/680-013WB.pdf

we have one event in june and one in july. Usually bowling or laser tag or something else easy that the kids can show up to and we can have a good time no matter how many are able to make it.

Laser tag?? Might want to check out the thread below. Laser tag and paint ball are no-nos officially.

http://www.scouter.com/forum/cub-scouts/16020-laser-tag

Now, if you guys want to meet at Main Event or wherever as a group of people who just happen to be in Scouts together, that's up to you.

Bleaching your tent is really bad advice it will destroy it..... From Campmor [url=http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/CustomerServiceContent____tentinfo#25]http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/CustomerServiceContent____tentinfo#25[/url=http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/CustomerServiceContent____tentinfo#25] 25. My tent has mold/mildew. How do I get rid of it?[/url=http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/CustomerServiceContent____tentinfo#25] You can't. Mold and mildew form under the urethane coating and invade the fabric. If left untreated it will cause an awful smell and possibly lead to delamination of the urethane coating and weakening of the fabric. To treat mold/mildew fill a bucket with warm soapy water (no detergents please). Add 2 cups of lemon juice and mix. Set up the tent. Take a sponge and gently clean all areas of the tent inside and out. Rinse the tent by lightly sprinkling it with a hose. Let it air dry and be sure to stake it down. To clean the fly lay it on the ground and repeat cleaning procedure described above. After finishing one side' date=' flip it over and do the other side. Rinse and air dry to finish.[/size']

I have used both the bleach (weak bleach) and lemon juice treatments. Both oxidize the mold and kill it. For the lemon juice to be effective it is best to do it on a sunny day since it is the interaction of the lemon juice and sunlight which causes the oxidation and kills the mold.

MB your forgetting that cubs advance based on Grade not completion of the previous rank....So they advance without receiving his past rank patch no biggy.

No I get that. But I thought I heard that Faith's Pack was giving these kids the patches too. If that is the case I personally would not want any part of that. If the CM wants to award it, let him do it. But I'd be looking for a different Pack for my kids.

If it is moldy masking it with frabreeze will not do anything. You need to kill the mold. If a scout with asthma or allergies gets it you may be in trouble. I would attempt to hand wash it in water with a little bit of lemon juice do not rinse setup to dry' date=' then rewash with tech wash. If the smell does not go away........The scout that did not do his job owes the troop a new tent. I would find the tent online and hold a SMC with Mom and scout and hand them the bill...... [/quote']

 

There are a few good threads online about geeting modl out of tents. If it has not "set" yet you may still be able to get it out. Sometimes you can get the mold out but the stain remains.

 

We have assigned tents by patrol so they have a bit more accountability in taking care of the tents. Our QMs keep track of issues like this and make sure the same Scouts get those same tents on the next camp out.