Backpacker

Well I guess you would have to add, National Geographic, Time, Newsweek, Sports Illustrated, etc., because they all have published pictures of naked or scantily clad women as well. You see what I mean tortdog your whole premise is without foundation, and your whole approach is simplistic and childish nonsense. This is not an either or, or a black and white issue, where do you draw the line?

I for one consider this thread ridiculously absurd, for it serves no real purpose or leads to any meaningful discussion. Tortdog what the heck is your point? Rooster, you are consistent as ever, you definitely are a man on a mission, good for you.

The point of this prolonged discussion is that Ed and Bob are both right, the methods of scouting are not requirements however if you do not incorporate them in your program you can't really have a true scouting program. The trouble comes when the methods are interpreted differently from their original intent or purpose, unfortunately I have seen this happen in three different councils training programs, they all used the same syllabus but some of the interpretations by some of the instructors were really off base. I guess they never heard of Train the Trainer training. I think that

I got 17 out of 17, but I had to guess on the other name for Philmont. Great webpage, thanks Fred.

I think the discrepancies occur in what questions and how they were asked. A poll that states what religion are you rather than what religious group are you an active participant will get very diffent results. There are many Catholics in the world, but those who attend Church and are active on a regular basis, every Sunday minimally, are much fewer in number. A non practicing Catholic may still consider themselves Catholic and will answer a poll that they are Catholic when the reality is they are not. Many church's also report those who come to Mass only on Easter and Christmas as members of t

Jerry What were your references for the information on converts because my sources Newsweek, Catholic Digest, Christianity Today, and US Catholic have all reported just the opposite. Let me state however as a life long Catholic that I respect and support the office of the papacy and will continue to do so no matter who holds the office, however that should not preclude clergy and laity from holding open dialog concerning the direction of the Church. I feel that most Catholics will support Benedict as they did John Paul even though they may disagree with certain stances each has taken

Blade There is a huge difference between being obedient to God and blindly following the human dictates of bishops and cardinals that are out of touch with their own people, and whose acts are not always inspired by God(ie:Cardinal Law et al). I suggest you read any reference on Pope Julius X and you will understand that not everything that happens in the Vatican is divine in nature, and then read about the pedophile cases in Boston, you will see that the moral dictates have changed over time. Blade, if the people desert the church then the church will cease to exsist, that was what the R

I agree with Trev's comment, Prairie's comment was milder than many that have been allowed. And yes Prairie you are correct in your summation even though some Catholics tend to ignore some of the Church's early history of Inquistion and Persecution. OGE if you want some interesting reading try the papacy of Julius X , it validates Prairies point concerning the origins of selling indulgences, simony, and immorality in the Vatican.

Prairie I agree with your statements. The only good thing about Ratzingers selection is that due to his advanced years his papacy will be short. As the number of Catholics leaving the Church continues to increase, the latest study shows that the number has gone from 40,000 to 60,000 a year half that number from the USA and Europe alone. In Latin America the numbers leaving are even more shocking due to a dramatic growth of evangelical churches. If this trend continues then it will not matter who is pope. Benedict XVI will certainly have his hands full during his reign. Did you know t

Gentlemen I think you miss the deciding factors about who becomes or stays president. It is all about economics, as long as unemployment is down and the economy is relatively strong and people are mostly content then the democrat or republican is a hero. When things start to go bad, runaway inflation or a recession, massive unemployment, etc. people will scream for change be they liberal or conservative, history bears this out. Like it or not the reason Bush was elected and then re-elected was because a good number of democrats voted for him, why, because for many democrats Gore and

Ranik You misread your reference. Girls and boys are to have separate cabins or tents but can occupy the same campsite, pg 326 of the Venturing Leaders manual under coed overnight activities, #3 states that seperate housing is to be provided for males and females, not separate sites. This was also mentioned in Venturing Leader Essentials Training, they can not share the same tent, and if in a large cabin there must be separate sleeping quarters for each. Bob I concur with you.

Crewadv There are no rules prohibiting a crew and troop from camping together in BSA reg's. However this should be an occasional thing rather than a regular practice otherwise you will see the two groups lose their seperate identities defeating the whole purpose of each program. Besides, 11-13 age boys will not want to do the same things as 14-20 year old teens. My crew is also coed and that can lead to other problems in joint activities. The crews in my district go to the district camporees and work at running the events, judging the troop campsites, and act as security for the event. Th

Bob You do love making those personal attacks at my every post and then you cry foul when it's done to you. To quote you, "Stop making this thread about me and stay on the topic please." I am on WoodBadge staff this summer and we have an all new staff of trainers, experienced and knowledgable, unlike the former group of deadwood who haven't been involved with a troop for decades. You know the type Bob, super critical, their way is the only way, love to talk about the good old days and think they are training new leaders. Well our SE finally cleaned house and our council numbers a

I agree with Lynda's post completely. Scout leaders need to learn the difference between rules and regulations and the recommendations of the BSA one is mandatory one is not. There are already enough rules in the scouting books that adding additional ones can get cumbersome. This is a boy run organization with the adults serving as advisors not controllers. A well trained and run PLC will save the adults many headaches and problems, and if something comes up they can't handle they know to come to you for backup. The one problem I have seen in SM training, Woodbadge, etc. are trainers who

I have not attacked you or your family, rather call to task the relevance of your question to scouting, for it has none. All that has been accomplished in this thread is a sad exhibition of the prejudice and intolerance that is alive and well in our society and in scouting. IMHO this thread should have been closed long ago, for it serves no useful purpose. Bob, to answer you directly let me quote another poster in another thread you were disagreeing with,"I will not get down into the mud to wrestle with a pig."

First of all this was not a pertinent question in the first place because it is an all white or all black question with no gray middle of the road, which is the reality of our world today. This thread was nothing more than Bob throwing more flamebait out there to incite others and he was successful, turning scouters against each other for no good reason,typical. The BSA has its policy set and probably will never change unless forced to by legislation, court case, or a significant loss of revenue. This is more than choosing between a gay trained leader or a straight untrained one, it touc

I would stay, and I think the foundations of scouting would still be just as strong. I agree with Dug and OGE that those who left scouting because of these two issues would have to do some deep intraspection as to their own prejudices or intolerance. Who knows maybe even Merlyn would finally be happy with the BSA. The reality is that the "reverent" part of scouting is so firmly entrenched I do not see that changing soon. However in another thread a while back it was discussed that the 12th point of the scout law was added to the BSA program and was not part of Baden Powells original program, o

CNY I agree with the other posters. The patrol is the core of the troop, just like the den is the core of a pack. The stronger each patrol is the stronger the troop will be. If a patrol is struggling the faster the issues are resolved the better, so they do not weaken the troop. My troop has now topped 60 active scouts from the original ten we started with three plus years ago. One of the reasons is our strong patrol program, we use mixed age patrols with excellent success, even though the current thinking is same age patrols, there are good points to both. Mixed age patrols was the orig

OGE I agree with you. I think it is just the fickle nature of humanity, a prominent person passes on and the world extols his virtues, even those who disliked them, case in point Ronald Reagan. The sad part is that when the new pope is chosen watch and see how fast they forget about John Paul II. I guess people need a short period of mourning and then want to move on with life as quickly as possible. This week will be JP II's memorial, next week when the new pope is chosen it will be time for joy and celebration. Yet the conditions in the world you refer to will still remain the same.

Eisley Right you are. JP II is a man of deep conviction and a man of the people, he is the first pope to reach out to non catholics as well as catholics. He was a laborer and a youth leader in his youth in Poland, and he never lost touch with those roots. He was instrumental in the downfall of communism in Eastern Europe, and he reached out and apologized to the Jewish community for any and all offenses committed against them by the Catholic Church. He was the first pope to give Israel ambassador status to the Vatican. As a life long Catholic, while I didn't always agree with some of his

Whoa Bob fgoodwin and Ed are right the only witch hunt here is in your misinterpretation of what people have said. Why would anyone in here be against the BSA? That, like your arguments makes absolute no sense. fg and ed are correct when they state the only one on a witch hunt is you. The BSA will survive this attack just fine and in six months few will even remember who Mr. Smith is or care, its the nature of the public. Those of us in scouting will do all we can to present scouting in a positive light and life will go on. So lets not blow things all out of proportion here, people can sa

I agree that the BSA should not be held accountable legally, that being said with the current climate of legal sensationalism and the call for more morality/ethics, ie Terry Schaivo, Michael Jackson, it would not surprise me if some conniving attorney found a way to turn this into a negligence case against the BSA. I think the best thing the BSA can do is to distant themselves as far away from Mr. Smith as possible and let him be the sacrificial lamb for the media circus. I think that the courts will definitely make an example of Mr. Smith, and I hate to think what the prison inmates wil

Bob Re read your own posts, you are not only misquoting me but yourself as well. You did say all those things I quoted. A slight reduction in registration costs would more than be made up by stronger, longer lasting units, in FOS, popcorn sales , more camp support, etc. No matter how you slice it Bob your approach to this problem is still unrealistic as well as just plain impractical. If National is reading this thread I have no doubt you are providing them some great laughs. You are also still incorrect about the duties of a DE versus a commisioner, just ask National. Oh how the mighty d

Bob, Your incorrect spin on my comments were a result of your posts. The commisioners never had the same job responsibilities as the district executive. The DE supports the commisioners in his district, so that comment is incorrect, and since I was a DE and you were not your interpretation of the DE's duties in your last post were a fabrication of your own creation and a misunderstanding of professional scouting that some volunteer scouters hold. As to valid points Bob, all I can say is that you are beating a dead horse on this topic.

Eamonn is very correct in saying that the commisioner service is a thing of the past, most councils, as others have stated, do not even have a real functioning commisioner group, most are retired scouters who still want to stay involved. These guys while well meaning can not handle the current job let alone adding more responsibilities to their plate. Bob, I disagree with you very strongly when you state that scouting can afford to lose those CO's that do not meet your standards. We already are losing too many thanks to the ACLU and others who want scouting out of the public facilities an