madkins007

More and more I am in favor of privately owned tents, as long as there are other options for those without a tent, or for newer Scouts until they and their family learn how to shop for a tent.

At events we came up (with input from the adult and youth leadership) a checklist for things like camp hygiene, food safety, patrol management, etc. Each item on the list can be ranked with 0, 1, or 2 points, depending on how well it is done (not at all, done OK, done very well). A simple checklist would have done the same thing, but we wanted to recognize extra effort. The total possible score was 40. You had to get over 20 to pass, AND you had to get a 1 on some key issues (camp and food safety issues mostly) to be allowed to proceed to the next event or to have free time, dependin

Sounds like a great idea! I'd charge admission, AND try to run concession stands! You really CANNOT ask for donations. If you can't ask for an admission fee, I'd try some creative alternatives, like selling food, washing windshields, renting comfy chairs, maybe even charging for the parking space or speakers ('you can get in for free, but the parking is $5, or you can rent a chair for $2, and/or a personal speaker for $5' sort of thing). As for legality of charging admission... you said "I have found places to rent the equipment". Just ask them about the actual movies. Most places th

United States Code, Chapter 1, Section 4 "The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property." I don't see that this applies. The ruling is a clarification or intrepretation of existing laws. It is not your property (in the sense of legal ownership) that is at risk, etc. There is also the implication that the signal is to draw attention for rescue. Do YOU or your house need rescue here? I also wonder about the effectiveness as a symbolic act. Unless you also plan on putting up a big sign expla

Looking at a few objections to X-Ray's post... re: Rechartering schedule- At least some councils do indeed follow the calendar year for rechartering and budgeting. No idea if every council does, but it would not surprise me to find that National requests such for whatever reasons. Even if the council or district followed a different schedule, the process of adding names and units could still be followed. re: charters reflecting boys who have dropped- This is not the big problem. The big problems are boys added without the unit's knowledge (handled internally- sometimes discovered by

Talk to the folks in your local Scouter Services office of your Scout Council office about protection and confidentiality if that will help assauge your concerns. Most of this data that you are most worried about is not kept past the initial background check. In general, the necessary data is entered into a computer (ScoutNet, I believe, in most councils) and not everything on the form is kept or entered into long-term storage. Some of the data is used for statistics and trending. Once entered, the forms are destroyed. Any BSA employee that misuses private data is terminated and pros

Re: Beavah and Bob White (Hmm, maybe I should be going by Antelope (Loper?) 1.) I've seen units make the traditional size (6-8) work, and I've been in a troop where I believe 10-12 would have worked better because of weak attendence (for several reasons). I think the traditional BSA guideline should be followed unless you have a strong reason for change. 2.) I've worked with both kinds of troops here as well, and I am far more in favor of mixed patrols (with other options for older Scouts) than in the New Scout Patrol. I feel the older-style mixed patrols better embody Patrol Method

FScouter- "BSA got the money and is using it to help kids." OK, so what about other programs that got less because an unfair share was given to the BSA there? Money that could have helped the handicapped, the poor, medical research, etc.? Also, the BSA got money they did not deserve, and are using for youth OTHER than the targetted group. Isn't that a little like a family raising money to help Jerry's Kids, then using it for other budgetary issues?

I know that a lot of what X-Ray10 talks about happened in the council I used to work at as well.

Sounds like ours were when I was involved with them. I also hate the inability to offer a decent lunch, and if I had it to do over again, I'd find a local place to sell me boxed lunches cheap and pre-sell them as a seperate deal. (An approach I've taken with training sessions as well)

Comfy chair/hammock, good book, shady spot, big cooler of ice water, mister/fan, loose/comfy/lightweight clothing, 'pleasant feeling' bug and sun juice. Ahhhhh..... Keep the hot, crowded, noisy waterfront and give me a hammock between two shady trees!

No joy locally. I can't even seem to get an answer about whether or not anyone here went to the event. I have not gone so far as to camp out on the SE's desk yet, though.

Freddy- my sympathies in a tough situation. (What IS a PA? Patrol Advisor?) 1. Take Youth Protection Training (YPT) ASAP, and get all of the other leaders in your unit in it as well. 2. Usually at YPT they give you the phone numbers you need to report an incident locally- the Scout Exec's if Scouting is involved, and local Child Protective Services if not. It is an unfortunate reality that we really need to keep those numbers on hand. 3. Right now, at least 8 people know about the accusation and are already, based on your note, treating the boys differently. This is unfair if th

Who is hurt faking numbers? The fakery is done in part to justify jobs, gain raises or accolades to the pros, and for other internal purposes. Were this all of it, however, it would be no big deal. The bigger concern (outside of our image) is that the inflated numbers are used to justify donations from the United Way, corporations, and other sources. Since there is only so much money available, any money we gain through manipulation is money that cannot go to another worthwhile cause. (Although, I'd bet that cooking numbers is pretty common in that whole field!)

So far, most respnses about music players, cell phones, etc. seem to fall into one or more of these camps: 1. NO- it interferes with the outdoor experience. or is contrary to the Scouting Outdoor Method. 2. NO- it does not make sense to carry things that can be broken, lost, run out of juice, add weight, etc. 3. YES, sorta- #1 or 2's reasons apply, but it is the Scout's responsibility. 4. YES- as long as it does not interfere. I don't think anyone has argued that they have the right to carry it and annoy others with it, or use it to duck out of work. Am I missin

IBadget- while I AM NOT in favor of banning personal electronics, your chain of reasoning is flawed. A handgun is, by ANY definition, a 'portable device', but one you obviously are forbidden to take with you in many situations. Portable does NOT equal 'omnipresent'. Equally obviously, the reason you have a portable device is so you CAN take it with you when it is appropriate to do so. The real question in the discussion on this topic is whether a Scout outdoor activity is 'an approprate place'.

Kudu said "From your posts, it sounds like your priority regarding the Outdoor Method is just getting them into the woods." No, that is just the first step in my implimentation of the Outdoor Method. The rest of it don't mean much iffen you don't git their lil' fannies out there (don't know why I drifted to a odd Western accent there, but it was fun!) I've done the Volunteer Naturalist/Trail Guide gig for so long that I can still do long speils on Hop Hornbeam or Poison Ivy. I can successfully teach Webelos 7 different local trees in a half hour AND have them be able to point them ou

Ed said "And in my opinion, listening to your Walkman on a camping trip isn't appropriate. Sure there is time for fun. There is also learning time. Tell me, listening to your Walkman on a camping trip supports which Method of Scouting?" Sorry, but I HAVE to ask... which Method forbids Walkmans? Ideals, Patrols, Advancement, Adult Association, Personal Growth, Leadership Development and Uniform don't touch on it, so it must be 'Outdoors'. Cut and Pasted from the Penn. Dutch Council website :"Boy Scouting is designed to take place outdoors. It is in the outdoors that Scouts share res

"Why would a kid need a Gameboy on a campout - family or Scout? Why would a kid need a Walkman on a campout - family or Scout? If the answer is because they might get bored then maybe better planning is needed. Take a walk. See what you can find in the woods. Learn how to gather wood for a fire. Enjoy your surroundings!" LOL! Ed, I could'nt agree more... for myself, but try to tell that to my 15 year old ex-Scout and he'll stare at you blankly. Taking walks is against his version of the Constitution (cruel and unusual punishment, you know), and the only thing he could find

(Quick background note- I work with adults with special needs for my job, and see the dynamics of these families constantly, this experience forms the foundation for this note.) Families of children with special needs are usually under an incredible amount of stress and hardship. Their friends usually thin out, cash runs tight, schools put demands on the families, other family members are either ignored or are turned into slave caretakers for the person with the needs, and more. The divorce rate is incredible in this community, and there is not a lot of help available to most of them.

Self-reliance means many things to many people, from a good knowledge of outdoor skills (the ability to survive being lost, for example), to the ability to take care of yourself in a basic urban setting. I think it refers more to the confidence and awareness that you know how to take care of yourself on many levels, and having a library of basic skills you can draw from to accomplish this. Scouting offers great opportunities for people to learn self-reliance, and we also sometimes ignore other chances. For example, we do indeed teach cooking and some other basic life skills, but we h

This is a bit off topic, and I am not aiming this at any specifc poster nor trying to start a flame, but the responses here have made me wonder... A lot of the items discussed for banning/discouragement seem to be placed on the list because they violate the posters idea of what a perfect campout should be. Some things seem to interfere with some people's ability to commune with nature or violate some sense of the 'Scouting Way', and the message seems to be that 'since it interferes with my sense of aesthetics, it ought to interefere with yours- or I'll at least teach you to believe that w

"Forbid personal snacks, and you encourage Scouts to cook cobblers or smores." (Kudu) I don't see the cause and effect relationship here. Nor do I think that there is any inherent value in cobblers or smores that make them more 'Scouting-like' than other kinds of snacks. By all means, teach a variety of cooking techniques and menus, but making people behave in concrete roles (like 'camping = no pre-packaged snacks, even though everyone else in the park is going that route') does not strike me as particularly Scout-like or helpful in advancing our cause. Besides, I REALLY dislike

Youth wear sports uniforms because they have great pride in their team and their role on the team. Youth rarely wear school uniforms away from school no matter how much they like their school, but they will often wear school T-shirts and sweats to brag it up. Could it be that youth are not as proud to be Scouts as they once were? Even in my day, we rarely wore anything in 'civilian life' that marked us as Scouts, and fought tooth and nail against wearing the Scout uniform to school on 'approved' days (at least past about the 4th or 5th grade). And if pride is a major issue, what

Re: uniforms as memories- I kept a LOT of my old patches and will treasure them always. I have a memory box for my son's patches and hope that he will ask for them one day. Keeping the entire shirt is a bit packrat-ish in my mind. Don Anslett ("Clutter's Last Stand") argues as well for keeping good memory items, but 'miniatureizing' them to reduce the clutter we can so easily accumulate.