Liz

Our dues are only $10 per year plus Boy's Life, which is somewhat optional (It's assumed, but if you can't afford it the treasurer will take it off your bill if you ask). We do have excellent participation in fund raisers. Boys who are from very limited income families aren't bothered about dues if they participate actively in fund raisers.

Popcorn sales go almost 100% to the council; our troop and boys get a few pennies on the dollar for popcorn. We actively push Friends of Scouting campaigns for the council. Our other fundraisers are split between the boys' accounts and the troop. I don't recall the exact ratio; it varies slightly from one year to the next as we try to find the right balance so the troop gets enough to run, but the boys get as much direct benefit from their fundraising as possible. We have one fund raiser which goes 100% to the troop; on holidays businesses pay our troop to put flags up in front of their place of business downtown in the morning, and take them down again in the evening. The patrols take turns on different holidays. We inherited this fund raiser from another troop which folded a couple of years ago, and it has been a huge blessing, since we have a large percentage of boys in the troop who would never be able to afford participation if they had to pay higher dues.

Our troop does not maintain very much equipment. Patrols have to fund their own "Patrol Boxes" for equipment, but they can use money from their accounts for it if they wish. Boys provide their own tents, but again they are welcome to use their account money if they want. Same for new uniforms if necessary, although my own quick-growing boys have provided a fair number of free outgrown uniforms to the less financially affluent boys -- as have some of the other larger boys in the troop (I also pick up uniforms of all sizes whenever I find them at places like goodwill). Most boys save their account money for either funding the camp-outs (pay-as-you-go) or summer camp. Troop of course pays for awards, patches, etc.. and a few troop items like the flag.

Oh, don't worry about me. I'm much too secure in my core beliefs to let GW throw me off. I'm sure he's got a lot of great stuff to say about Scouting; but it's clear that there's some bitterness about Christianity that I'm not equipped to heal. And, GW, whatever it is that caused this, I apologize on behalf of the Christians out there who let you down somewhere along the line. I don't expect that to matter to you, but there it is.

Certainly, throughout history, there have been enough atrocities committed in the name of Jesus that one can make a list a mile long; I don't imagine it makes any difference that the same can be said of so-called followers of Islam, Hinduism, Paganism, Athiesm, or almost any other religion or ideology one can think of. I also don't imagine it makes any difference that many of us would not call these people "followers" of Jesus.

Someday I expect some group out there will lead a massive uprising and kill people in the name of Gandhi, too. And then people will believe that other people made all those stories about Gandhi up. That doesn't change what Gandhi was trying to teach, does it?

At least I can take comfort in knowing that GW doesn't think torture is a reliable method of obtaining information. We may have different reasons for it, but I don't have to rely on my ability to change his mind to take comfort in the idea that he's probably not out torturing people. ;-)

-Liz

Wow. I didn't mean to stir up so much venom.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. As am I.

-Liz

"So? Jesus was a peace-nik."

So, many people in this country (at least) believe Jesus was a good role-model. If you aren't one of those people, then that's certainly your choice. In that case, my post probably has no relevance to you. That's also your choice. I think there are also plenty of good arguments against torture like Skeptic's which don't drag some washed-up dead rabbi into the mix.

Of course, look where standing up for the moral high ground got Jesus...

Depending on your point of view, it got him:

Tortured to death

Lasting worldwide fame & respect

A great deal of influence over the fate of the Western World

Eternal glory at the right hand of God

If you opt for "Tortured to death" and don't fall in with any of the rest of it, then there's probably no convincing you that the moral high ground is worth taking. My personal opinion is that this is sad, but that and $3 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks so you're welcome to take it or leave it. I suspect you'll do the latter.

-Liz

"It is easier to win a war if you hate your enemies."

Maybe this is why Jesus refused to lead his followers in a revolt against their Roman oppressors. Whether one regards Jesus as the Incarnate God or just on a level similar to Gandhi, most people at least see some wisdom in his methods.

It's sometimes frightening to think about the world Jesus lived in; it was the very world we are fighting with everything we have to prevent: political oppression, a government bent on world domination -- which routinely instigated massacres and engaged in ethnic cleansing to "keep the peace," total lack of religious freedom, religious fanatics who were willing to kill people for breaking what we would see as relatively minor points of law...

Wow. Jesus lived in a society not unlike Iraq or Taliban-run Afghanistan. What was his response to it?

Somehow, I don't recall any historical documents that indicated that Jesus or his followers (at least for the first couple of centuries) resorted to capturing their opponents and torturing them.

Just a thought.

-Liz

When my younger son & his peers got their AOL, he'd been with the same group of boys under the same exceptional Den Leader since tigers. We secretly got all the boys together, along with their Den Chief, in uniform, for professional photos, and presented the den leader with a framed certificate of appreciation and a framed photo of the boys together (signed on the back by all the boys) at the crossover ceremony. He was absolutely speechless.

I'm not suggesting you copy this idea for your Scoutmaster; I like the scrapbook idea better. I do think that you might consider the possibility of some kind of either professional portraits or some kind other kind of specially arranged photograph of the boys in the troop, as part of the scrap book (maybe even on the cover). Just a thought.

-Liz

Unless you're aware of a local troop that doesn't already have a Scoutmaster, your best bet is to volunteer as an Assistant Scoutmaster in your son's troop. Just go with him and talk to the Scoutmaster or a member of the Committee. They can get you the proper paperwork. If they already have plenty of adult volunteers and don't need any more ASMs, then I would suggest starting out with counseling some merit badges or making yourself useful in other ways.

Each troop only has one Scoutmaster, and honestly I don't think it would be a good idea to jump right in and be a Scoutmaster without having considerable experience in other Adult Leadership capacities first. Possibly, if there were an active troop whose Scoutmaster just moved away, retired, died, etc., and they were really desperate, *maybe* someone without any experience might be better than nobody at all; but even then that's questionable.

If you're only going to commit to Scouts as long as your son is interested, Scoutmaster isn't for you. A troop needs more continuity than that, if possible. If, once you're involved, you decide you want to make a longer-term commitment to Scouting, be sure to take advantage of as much of the Adult Leader training opportunities offered by your Council as you can. Then you'll be prepared to volunteer when a Scoutmaster position is vacated in one of your local troops at some point in the future.

Best of luck!

-Liz

This is just my opinion, you understand...

I think there's a big difference between an "Eagle Mill" and a successful program that turns out a high percentage of Eagle Scouts.

When I think if an Eagle Mill, I think of a program that focuses through taking kids in batches through all the requirements as quickly as possible, without regard to how well the boys actually learn the concepts the requirements are supposed to be evidence of.

A program that offers lots of *opportunity* for advancement is not the same as a program that is focused on checking off boxes on a requirement sheet.

What you describe does not sound like an Eagle Mill to me. Neither does the program that has campouts twice a month, at least not just because of the frequent campouts. The other adult you were talking to probably either knows something else about the troop that you don't know, or he's just jealous of the other troop's resources. Or... maybe he has a different idea of what constitutes an "Eagle Mill" than I do.

The world does need more boys in it that have learned the skills, values, and leadership that becoming an Eagle Scout represents. It doesn't necessarily need more boys who can write "Eagle Scout" on their resumes without it having any real meaning; that cheapens the achievement for the boys who really do work for it and learn the concepts. It does NOT sound, from your description, like this is what your troop is doing.

I say, keep up the good work.

-Liz

I saw the Boy Scout dog tags in the Clearance section of scoutstuff.org last night. I didn't see eagle-specific ones, but they do have both the cub- and boy- scout versions. Those who want either of the other ones should probably hurry and get them.

To see what they have, go to scoutstuff.org, click "Clearance" near the upper right corner of the web page, click the "Gifts" tab, and scroll all the way to the bottom.

Good luck finding the Eagle tags! Have you checked ebay?

-Liz

"It's sad that his parents have taught him to be so mean towards people he disagrees with. "

You can't be sure it was the parents. I know I hear my kids spout off mean things about the candidate they like less, and I am constantly correcting them (and asking them to take derogatory statements off their facebook, etc.). While I will sit down and watch debates with the boys, and point out in *both* candidates when I think they're right or wrong about something, I do not stand for making mean jokes or personal attacks on them. They are, after all, PEOPLE.

Even though my boys are Scouts, some of the stuff they're getting from society, school, and the media rubs off. They have to be reminded about the "courteous" and "kind" concepts from time to time. They believe in these ideals, but they're still in training and sometimes they don't realize that it's still unkind to slam someone even if that person will never hear it.

I am not training my boys to be Republicans or Democrats. I'm trying to train them to look at each candidate based on his or her individual values and qualifications for the job. Yes, they know who my candidate preferences are this year, but I try very hard to explain my reasons in terms of my theories on economy, health care, etc., and not based on negative attacks on the candidate I don't prefer.

And I still hear the nasty comments coming from their mouths (although they do seem genuinely contrite when I remind them to be kind -- I think they really just get swept up and forget). Again... you can't assume it's the parents modeling these behaviors.

The kids are dressing up for Halloween (along with their cousins) as all four presidential and vice presidential candidates this year. I will expect them to display their best behavior and be respectful no matter which candidate each kid ends up with (of course I know my niece will be playing "Palin").

-Liz

That's true. I can't think of any reason why I would require a boy to read a MB book; however I think several of the MB books can be very helpful to have the boy read, if possible.

Unfortunately, the boy in question who is having trouble reading his MB books may not have the option of going to a counselor who is willing to verbally go over all the material needed to get the MB done. Sending the boy off to read the manual, do the work, and report back to me is not MY MBC style. I prefer (when possible) to get groups of boys together in small groups, direct them toward how to accomplish the requirement, and accompany them on "field trips" and that sort of thing. I'm doing this for the MB I'm counseling now, and I go along as a helper for other MBCs, too. I don't think a boy with dyslexia would be at a significant disadvantage in one of these MB groups, and I'd be more than happy to spend a little extra time with a boy who needed it -- whether it was due to a disability or not.

In short, maybe a different MB Counselor is in order for CindyJ's boy, if at all possible. I can see how some of the MBs (maybe Personal Management??) might be nearly impossible to accomplish with severe dyslexia, but those can be substituted for different MBs with approval of the council.

I still think making the MB books available on audio would be a great resource for lots of boys.

-Liz

LOL! And a *Quaker* mother with a gun safe. Where can you top that?

I'm a pacifist, not a vegetarian. ;-) I like my venison, and from time to time I need to protect my livestock from predators.

-Liz

Thanks, guys! That clarification helps a lot. I think we do have some target-based laser tag arenas in the area. This warrants further investigation!!

The boys DO participate in tomahawk throwing at OA events (and maybe others?), and enjoy it quite a bit. My sons have been bugging me to buy them throwing axes, but then they protest when I tell them the axes will be kept in the gun safe when we're not supervising their use. *sigh* So... no axes at home for now, but it is something they sign up for at Scouts every time they have a chance.

-Liz

Are games like laser tag prohibited as Patrol activities? Some of our boys want to do this as a patrol, but they've been told by one of the ASMs that the BSA prohibits any game that involves pretend shooting of that sort. Is this true?

If it's not true, how would you suggest I approach the ASM? If it's a *Troop* rule or a Council rule, the boys just need to live with it. But if it's just a misunderstanding, we can probably fix it.

Ironically, ours is the only "pacifist" family (religious reasons) in the Troop and we have no issue at all with Laser Tag.

-Liz

That's great to hear that feedback!! Way more than half of the popcorn my boys have sold this year have been troop donations. In fact, between the two of them, I think they've only sold three actual popcorn tins that they'll need to deliver this year.

-Liz

I don't know about boys who leave Scouting entirely. I have never seen one of those come back, but I don't have a ton of experience. I HAVE seen boys lose interest and be frequently absent for a while, only to regain interest later. My own son is one of these. He wanted to quit scouting, and I told him he couldn't -- but that he didn't have to go to meetings or outings if he didn't want to. Well, I didn't exactly tell him he couldn't, I just reminded him that he couldn't stay in OA if he quit scouting (for reasons I don't fully understand, he didn't lose interest in OA). After about 6 months he started going to meetings again, and shortly after that he started going on outings again. He just finished a year as PL and was voted in as Troop Guide last week, and is starting to take inventory of his merit badge requirements and forming a plan to start moving along in ranks again.

I don't have such detailed information about other boys, but I HAVE seen boys in our troop go through "cold" periods where they just seem to disappear for a while, and then they come back again. I haven't seen any yet who have kind of faded away who haven't come back -- but the ones who come right out and say they're quitting have not come back.

-Liz

My husband once suggested that it would be easier to load all the "Flag Flown Over the Capitol" flags into a cargo plane and fly the plane over the capitol -- and it would have almost as much meaning.

I've never heard the 30 minute rule. It doesn't even make SENSE.

-Liz

Insanescouter -- I really don't think that's a bad idea at all. I've got a whole group of boys working on Railroading MB together. Instead of having them all take turns reading the book, I more or less "transcribed" the safety requirements into a power point, added lots of pictures, threw in a few videos, etc.. That way, the kids all learned enough to meet the requirements, answer the questions, etc.. -- and I didn't have to buy 15 MB books or find a way to share one book among them all.

-Liz

(edited because I wrote in a hurry and part of my post didn't make sense)(This message has been edited by liz)

I don't know which MBs your son still has left to do, but if his disability makes it so he can't accomplish a particular merit badge, a different merit badge can be substituted.

Not all of the MBs require reading. I would definitely talk to the council about this.

Best of luck. I admire your son for persevering through this.

Perhaps multiple Scouters could even be organized to get all of the Eagle-required MB books (at least) read out loud, recorded, and made available to Scouts with vision or reading challenges. I know I wouldn't mind reading one or two out loud, for the good of Scouting.

Barry / Eagledad --

I couldn't agree with you more. As a parent, I feel blessed to have my boys in the same troop as this young man. I've known him since he was Den Chief for one of my boys' CS dens (and an outstanding den chief at that), and it's been a pleasure to watch him continue to grow and mature over the years. The boys look up to him, and also see him as a peer and a friend at the same time. I absolutely see that the boys in the troop strive to be more like him, and that's a wonderful thing.

We are very lucky.

-Liz

We have a JASM. It works well for us, but I think that's largely because we have a very remarkable young man in the role. I suspect it could really be a disaster with the wrong boy as a JASM, and I would approach the idea with caution. Our JASM provides peer leadership, will step in now and then if both our SPL and ASPL are absent (but only if asked), is the boy that the other boys turn to if they have problems or questions, etc. He does a lot of the same grunt work that any ASM would do, helping set things up, keeping records, etc..

I've never seen a teenager with as much ability as our JASM to provide leadership and mentoring without having to be the center of attention or getting everything done his own way. He's got a gift, that one.

-Liz

I don't even remember what all I'm signed up for. The only one I've actually been doing is Railroading. I'm a big fan of trains.

I think I'm also signed up to do anything that has to do with computer technology (my entire career has been in the software industry), communications, and reading. I know I have Personal Management on my list. But there are others in our troop who do those, and I'm the only one who does Railroading, so there we go!

I always say my favorite author is Tolkien, but honestly I have a lot of favorite authors. I am a Literature major, after all! I'll read almost anything, from Chaucer to Douglas Adams. I don't have a favorite band. I like music in general, but there's only so much time in a day I'd rather read than listen.

-Liz

Kraut -

My post was mostly tongue-in-cheek, although there's a little truth to it; some of our patrols have a tendency to choose menus based primarily on which one will require the least amount of clean-up, rather than on what is nutritious or even tasty. I find myself biting my tongue a lot when I see what the boys have bought for their campouts.

Even so, I'm actually a big fan of the baggie-eggs.

-Liz

If it would get my husband into a kilt, even just once, I'd be all for it.

=D

-Liz

I haven't heard this, but I'm with you -- my boys would be seriously unhappy if they couldn't make their baggie-omelets.

On the other hand, I personally feel that it's almost a cop-out... shouldn't they be learning to do DISHES? ;-)

-Liz