Liz

They're planning to focus on camping & hiking, with a major trip each summer to a national park or similar distant location. I'm not sure what type of organization would be particularly suited to that unless it's a business like an outdoor outfitter shop (Hmm. That might be worth approaching, too if the other doesn't work out...)

Yes, I have thought about that. We could either go "smaller" and officially have just one of the Area churches on record as the CO, or we could go "bigger" and have the Yearly Meeting (made up of all the member churches in OR, WA, and ID) as the CO. It would be easier, politically speaking, to get Area approval because it's a smaller group, but the other options may work too.

You're probably right that a conversation with the DE is in order to find out whether we need to be a legal organization, or whether being essentially a sub-group of a larger organization would be good enough (because essentially that's what we are). Our larger organization is a pretty darn big and well-established organization that's been around in one form or another for over a hundred years. It's just the sub-group that's a struggling half-cocked group of people at the moment (but we're trying to change that!!).

Thank you so much for your input, and yes there is so much to consider.

I think our Portland Area Friends group would be a good CO even though they don't really have financial resources available. We are essentially attempting to revive an old tradition of what used to be called "Quarterly Meetings" (many Friends groups still practice this tradition, but we've completely let it slide for the last 20 years). It would be nice to have something -- anything -- for us to rally around, especially something that would potentially give our young adults something to do (either as crew or advisors). Like all other church organizations in this country, keeping young adults active between the "youth" stage and the "adult" stage is a huge challenge.

We do have other female leaders but I think we will need more so that no two advisors are stuck supervising ALL the outings. But there probably won't be much in the way of serious outings until next year, so getting enough down on paper to be able to say "We have a Crew!!" is our starting point. Once we actually have a crew, then word can go out asking for more volunteers as well as more crew members.

Having it not be directly attached to any Boy Scout troop does make sense.

The kids will be home from Mexico shortly and I will talk it over with them and go from there.

The parking lot would have been fine with me... I do understand that space is limited, resources are limited, and everything... Really, the only real accommodation I was asking for was for someone to talk to me (since I've never been to the camp) and help me to devise and execute a plan which would leave little or no impact on their staffing or facilities. The RV was just what came to mind as making the most sense to me and the other adults in my troop I talked to about it. A bonus for me personally is that, being pregnant, I like to be a few steps away from my bathroom. But that's not a dealbreaker and I would have been OK with anything...

Oh well, it's over now unless they actually bar the other boy from attending camp, in which case I'm going to have to open a can of whoop--- on them when I hear of it. Because that would be just spite and punishes the entire troop for me calling them on their mistake.

Hmm. That might be an option as well. Good to know.

I don't even know who our DE is, but I also don't know how many people at the Council level are ticked off at me right now... if you want to know why, you'll have to go back and read the thread this was spun off of. All I know, or at least suspect, is that they've been intentionally avoiding my calls for the last 3 days because they lost some paperwork I submitted and I want them to help me solve the problem they created by doing so.

I already have current YPT and most of the other adults who have signed up do, too, although not all. Those who don't can take it online pretty easily. Actually, a chair and COR would be a better position for me I think than Advisor at this point in time, since an Advisor probably would be expected to attend most of the outings and for the next year I may be a little tied up with Scout Jr. who should be born sometime next month... All the adults left the "position" portions blank on their applications, so that we could fill them in once we find a CO -- since we know the CO (theoretically) chooses the Chair and the COR and that sort of thing and we figured whoever has the most connections with whoever eventually signs the charter would be "it" for Chair.

I think I'll take this back to the clerk of our area group and see if I can get some people together to decide "yay" or "nay" and then go to the DE to see whether we can get approved. That gives the Council a little time to forget what a pain in the side I can be...

Hah... we'll see if the DE is even willing to talk to me. ;-)

I think I'll send my son to do it. He doesn't share my last name and I don't think they'll make the connection. ;-) Besides, this crew is HIS baby. We're just there to offer advice and a little supervision along the way to make sure they don't hurt themselves...

To start off, my son has a group of youth, some young ladies, some young men who have aged out of his Troop, and himself (he's 16) who want to become a Venturing Crew. But they do not have a CO. They do have applications filled out from enough adult leaders (including my husband and me) so that when they find a CO they have everything ready to submit.

I was wondering whether anybody here knows much about what the minimum obligations of a CO might be for charting a venturing crew?

The reason I ask is because I have a possible CO in mind which may be interested, but they have very few resources. The organization (in a very loose definition of the word "organization") is a local consortium or committee of sorts of representatives of all the members of our church denomination in the Portland, OR are. The name of the organization is "Portland Area Friends" -- exciting, huh? LOL.

I represent my congregation on this committee. The committee has a "clerk" which functions more or less as a chairperson. We gather a couple of times a year to have a pot-luck meal and try to figure out how to get the "Area" to have more interest, activity, and community. Hardly anybody ever shows up. I talked to the Clerk about charting a co-ed venturing crew in the hopes that this might attract the Area's youth to get together and do stuff, and he seemed interested but fearful that they wouldn't be able to meet the requirements of the Crew or the Council.

My son already has half a dozen youth signed up for the crew, and sufficient adult leadership (at least on paper) to submit to the Council. My husband and I are both on board to be Advisors, and as members of the Portland Area Friends either one of us could function as a COR. The youth already plan to meet in homes, so providing a meeting space wouldn't be a problem. They are already planning their future, involvement in things like Campboree, their focus (visiting National parks, forests, and monuments), etc.. I don't think we'd have too much trouble getting the Area to sponsor the crew if they CAN, especially since it's basically run and managed by a group of very dedicated young men and women. But the Area has no budget, not even a treasurer, no building, and I'm not sure it even has any legal status as an organization. What we have is (on paper) about two dozen official representatives from the various churches, about six of whom (from three or four different churches) actually show up to meetings, another couple dozen people who show up for the meetings because they give a care, and a Clerk (chairperson), Recording Clerk (Secretary -- that's me, actually), and a couple of other "officers."

Is that enough to actually constitute a Chartering Organization? It would be beneficial for the Area, because it would give us something to basically "do" -- i.e. get some youth together to get to know each other and learn valuable things, and it would give the homeless Crew a CO so they could become official.(This message has been edited by liz)

John, I fully agree with you, unfortunately the kids are pretty attached to their friends within the troop.

My older son actually probably doesn't give a care, since all his closest friends aged out last year (he's heading up a new Venture crew and looking for a CO now), except that he's ASPL and feels obligated to step up to SPL position this coming year.

My younger son I don't think would consider switching unless all his friends switched, too. And his friends' parents are, for the most part, the adults that are the troop leadership that is such a problem.

Both kids are aware that, frankly, their Troop sucks. They talk about it with each other all the time. But they don't want to switch, they'd rather just suck it up and stay with their friends. And they're of an age where I feel they should be allowed that choice.

Now, I will discuss this whole issue with my older son, who has been planning to ask the same CO of the troop to charter the crew (except they can't seem to get an appointment with the person they would ask; that's how much the CO really cares about the Scouts it attaches its name to), and maybe I can convince him to look elsewhere. My husband and I are essentially the primary adult leaders signed up to be the Crew Advisors, and we both (as you might have gathered already) are not the types to roll over and play dead.

Which spawns a spin-off thread... I'm going to spin off on a new topic over in the Venturing area. PLEASE come take a look...? I could really use some input on helping my son's CO-less crew get to official status.

My unit will not be willing to make waves. And I do not believe our CO will be willing to make waves on our behalf either, even if we were to ask them to.

I just talked to the other kid's mother, and she is pretty upset with me for even talking to them. I was the one who talked her into filling out a special needs request form in the first place, her son is willing to just starve all week, and she doesn't believe in, well, doing anything. And she's our Chairperson.

Even though I have made it abundantly clear to them on every occasion that I am not speaking on behalf of their family, that her son has the least-difficult dietary needs of all of us, that he intends to come to camp whether they can accommodate his diet or not, and that I was ONLY asking for the option of a refund if MY son chose not to come to camp under these circumstances, the letter they wrote back still basically says they will be issuing refunds to both our sons and she is now afraid they won't let her son go to camp. And I can tell she's upset with me for it, although she didn't quite come out and say so because she never comes out and says anything.

In order for me to do anything about this, I think I'd need the backbone of a stronger unit and a stronger CO. And those are things I just don't have.

YAY! ZACH CALLED!!

They're safely across the border.

Zach has chosen to go ahead and accept the refund and just come home. I didn't try to influence him either way... told him I'd be happy to put together a food box and a cooler for him, but he said not to bother. I think he's probably had enough of food compromises in the last two weeks and his body probably needs some real cooked food.

And next year, whether they're at Baldwin or some other camp, the whole thing should be much easier. If they're cooking in their own campsite, it doesn't matter WHAT the camp brings them to cook -- they can bring their own food and just cook it. No problem.

I'm still sad about not being able to go myself, but oh well. What can ya do?

I'll have to decide later whether I'm willing to "take on" the challenge of trying to get through their thick skulls that they need to do a better job of handling food issues at camp... sounds like around the country some camps do pretty well and others do pretty much the same as ours.

Anybody here know anything about the Oregon Trail Council, their camps, or how easy or hard they are to work with in general?

Luvtahike --

Well, it's good to know we're not alone. My Celiac is bad enough that I can't use pans or mixing bowls or things that have had gluten in them, either unless they've both been thoroughly scrubbed and are made of a non-porous material (glass, stainless, etc.). So for example even if our troop did have dutch ovens, I wouldn't be able to eat anything cooked in them. My son is less sensitive than I am and can manage if everything's been washed. But it's my only real big food issue (other ones like my allergy to cucumbers and melons simply don't come up as often). I find that even though I have to be more careful about contamination than my son, the fact that he can't do dairy either makes his diet at least twice as hard to manage as mine in a lot of ways. I can see how your diet would be even more challenging.

Part of my personal frustration is that this will be my last opportunity to go to summer camp with my boys. They are 15 & 16 years old now, and I have a new baby due next month. By the time baby's old enough to leave home with Daddy for an entire week, my kids will have aged out... well, maybe Zach will have a year left depending on the timing of camp (his birthday is next week; this year he'll be 14 at camp but most years he'd have his birthday before or during camp). Unless we can find a camp that allows Venturing crews and they're still doing that during their college years... this is it for me. And even this late in time, if they would have CALLED me back in a timely manner or at least give me a number I can reach someone at, instead of playing the "call the main office and leave a voicemail" game only to have them reply in a one-way-email or voicemail... I still could have, I'm sure, worked something out like what you've done. I am happy to take on the entire burden without asking them to DO anything -- which was my reasoning behind asking for the RV exception (which, it turns out, they're willing to do for another camper... and yes, I understand they can only do it for one person at a time and the other one probably did come first so I'm really fine with dropping the RV request and coming up with another plan if they'd just give me a chance...)

By the time the baby's old enough to join Cubs, we'll be living in a different Council area, so I might give it another shot if it's a boy... we'll see. Maybe I'll look into the Campfire program instead; that's what I did when I was a girl.

Your food list is pretty helpful. I've never seen the rolls you mention, but most of the other stuff should be available around here and I can buy him a loaf or two of Udi's bread (the only bread on the market that's good... or even edible, IMO). My son does eat Lara bars. Most of them are based on dates, though, which I'm allergic to, so they don't work so well for me -- ditto with at least 75% of the gluten-free bars available on the market; they either have dates or walnuts or pecans in them, none of which I can eat. I have made good use of the Oskri Organics Fiber Bars; they're absolutely delicious and you can get them on Amazon. Not real sweet like most of the other bars, made mostly from Quinoa, and they contain almonds and cranberries. If my son does choose to go, I can go to Trader Joe's and stock up on snacks to supplement some basic meals, and he can take our coleman stove and his own backpacking stove and the camp can just deal with it. I just wish Zach were home so he could shop and pick out his own stuff. He's actually really good at reading labels and making sensible choices. Believe me, I wouldn't be doing this for him if he were HOME.

But again, because of the late stage of pregnancy I'm in, eating a week's worth of compromised nutrition isn't worth the risk; I'm already losing weight and I can't risk putting myself into toxemia just because I really want to go to camp. Otherwise, I'd actually be fine eating boiled eggs and oranges and nuts and fiber bars all week. In fact, over the last few years of knowing I'm Celiac (I've lost count whether it's been 3 or 4 years now), I've pretty much gotten used to it.

Oh well. Next year I can take the baby with me and go camp in a National Forest with the venturing crew, and maybe that will be better than Summer Camp anyway. And if I want to take my RV instead of sleeping in a tent... I can! LOL. And my husband can come, too (he's signed up to be an Advisor, also; he was super active in Cub Scouts but he got too frustrated with politics and stupidity to continue volunteering in Boy Scouts years ago and gave up -- His ASM shirt is till hanging in his closet having been worn maybe 3 times).

As for the Soy milk -- have you ever tried Hemp Milk? Hemp is not a common allergen, and the texture of hemp milk is super close to cow's milk. It works extremely well in cooking. Zach puts Almond Breeze (vanilla) on his cereal, but we use unflavored hemp milk in any recipe that would normally be heavy on the milk like gravies and sauces and chowders.

She didn't say she was told propane was not allowed. She said "I'm fairly certain they won't allow a camp stove", but did not ask. She said day of camp involves patrol cooking in the campsite, so the answer seems an obvious "yes".

** I have been told that in the past. Either the person who told me that was wrong, or the policy has changed, or the policy varies from one camp to the next within the Council. The day the camp cooks in the campsite is all open campfire cooking, so it has nothing to do with fuel. But I will send the camp stove with Zach if he chooses to go under these circumstances.

The camp offered refrigerator space, a toaster, and a microwave oven. Great! Cooking in the campsite is always an option too. Great! The camp said she can't cook in their kitchen other than the toaster and microwave, and they can't cook special for those two boys. Sounds perfectly reasonable. They won't allow an RV in a campsite. That too sounds reasonable. Perhaps if there had been some follow up communication on the part of the troop back in May, or even early June, maybe something else could have been worked out. Perhaps the food people could have ordered some dairy/gluten free food, had they known. But late followup 48 hours before camp starts there's no time to do that.

** They seem to have revoked their permission to use the refrigerator and microwave. The toaster is not an option anyway because it will inevitably contain gluten so it's a moot point. I agree that 48 hours is late to be following up, but I did not know until this week that our ASM had not followed up like he promised he would. He told me to assume everything would be OK because he was sure it would be, unless he told me otherwise. I realize that part isn't the Council's fault, but it is what it is.

The best solution at this point is to simply bring the boys' normal everyday special food from home and cook it in the campsite. Bring an ice chest or use the camp refrigerator. Seems fairly simple. Just do it.

** It seems simple to you, but the kids do not HAVE "normal everyday special food from home." We eat real food at home, not prepared food because prepared food almost always has gluten and/or dairy in it. The boys will not have access to a sink, a stable work surface, a full compliment of pots and pans, an oven, a complete set of kitchen knives, a full sized refrigerator, or any of the other things we have at home. I don't expect anybody who hasn't done this before to understand, but camp food typically consists of a very simplified fare and relies heavily on pre-packaged items. Granted, the typical American diet isn't much different from that, but when you have special dietary needs you just don't eat a typical American diet.

What is the purpose of writing a rebuttal letter?? The camp lost her letter, therefore they should be obligated to accomodate her request to park an RV in the campsite? The troop had an obligation too, which was to get the woman a solution. The troop failed to do that.

** Nobody EVER suggested parking the RV in the campsite. According to our ASM who has been there, there's room to park an RV near the kitchen. No doubt this is where they're parking the other RV for the boy whose paperwork they did not mis-file and forget to deal with. And I totally understand that the other kid may have a more critical need for the camper than ours do, and I have zero issue with working out some alternative arrangement even if it weren't for the other kid who got prioritized over ours... the problem is that they refuse to talk to me and refuse to work with me to come up with another solution. They won't even TRY. And they have decided not to even make the basic accommodation that the Leader's Guide says they'll make because they essentially claim that we didn't file the paperwork until this week. Which is a lie.

I am not exactly trying to write a rebuttal letter, just a response. The fact that the lawyer who wrote the letter to me had several factual errors needs to be addressed. But my purpose is to let him know that, no, telling the kids they can't come to camp (which is what the letter states) is not going to be an option. The other boy in the troop who requested accommodation is planning to go anyway. Maybe he'll bring extra food from home and maybe he won't, but that's not my problem because I am not going. My son hasn't had a chance to make a decision yet because he is in Mexico until Tomorrow. Frankly, I hope he decides to take the refund.

As for Camp Baldwin, I was not aware they did all camp cooking. The only summer camps I've been to have been Meriwether and Adventure Cove (cubs). Our troop actually rotates and since they went to Meriwether last year, Baldwin will be on the list for next year. That should be much easier to deal with if the boys do their own cooking there. But I am going to suggest that they consider mixing things up a bit by trying a camp in a neighboring council. I'll research the camps and make a suggestion, but I welcome any input from people who might know of some camps in Southern Oregon or in Washington.

But I feel like I am DONE being an adult leader in any regular Boy Scout troop, I am re-thinking my decision to be a Venturing Advisor, and I am definitely not planning on continuing my FOS support. It's not just this issue, either, it's just the last straw. Our Council is so messed up in so many ways I don't even know where to start.

It would have to be a camp in a different council, but oh well. The reality is that he has many many opportunities to go to various camps this year -- all of which will be more accommodating. Other than Boy Scout Camp, the summer basically looks like:

2 weeks in Mexico

1 week at a church conference (whole family activity -- and I'll be cooking)

1 week of "High Adventure" camp through our church

1 week of camp at the beach put on through our regional church organization

5 days or so on a 50-mile backpack trip with the troop

Not to mention that he needs to find some time to go visit his dad this summer...

It's not like he'll be sitting around on his butt. I think he'll be happy to have the money back in his savings account if that's what he chooses. I actually was somewhat against him going to Boy Scout camp this year (although I kept my mouth shut). My older son decided not to go because it was just too much... also he didn't have enough money saved up for both Mexico and Boy Scout camp (I usually pay for their church camps but they pay for all their Scout activities plus Mexico).

Do you think my reply to them is reasonable? I've added a little to it. I'm trying to be firm in my stand but not sound like a helicopter parent or be unreasonable. I did add a line about all my years of FOS support being a waste and not a mistake I'll be making again... although that may be over the top. But it's true. I don't intend to continue supporting FOS unless I see some real changes. I still haven't sent my reply. I need to go shopping or something and come back to it with a clear head later.

Lisabob --

Thanks for your sensible suggestions. You're completely right that the kids are able to cook for themselves, if allowed the opportunity to do so. I already know the other boy won't. There's nothing I can do about that. I can suggest all I want to that the SM talk to him about it, but unfortunately the dynamics of our troop aren't the healthiest anyway (in my humble opinion) and I'd be downright shocked if it did any good. So he'll just have to fend for himself. I won't be his Mommy and tell him how to do it, although I'd be happy to offer him guidance if he needs or wants it.

Zach is entirely capable of cooking for himself and I will give him the option as for what to do. After the letter I got from the Council, it looks like he may not even be allowed to use the microwave, so if he wants to go I'll send the camp stove with him. As far as his trip to Mexico goes, Unlike the Council, his youth group was very accommodating with the kids' many special diets. They had... let's see... 3 dairy-allergic (only), 3 vegetarians, one with a severe nut allergy requiring that no tree nuts be present on the trip (thankfully although that kid can't eat peanuts, he is allowed to at least be in the same room with them), and two gluten & dairy sensitive people including my son and one of the adult leaders. And yet somehow they managed to come up with a menu that would work for everyone, with appropriate substitutions available. And when I bought some special food to send for Zach, they asked me for the receipts so I could be (partially) reimbursed. -- since food is supposed to be included in the cost of the trip. Though in no way would I have ever presumed to ask for any reimbursement.

I will see how he's feeling when I talk to him, but he will be allowed to make up his own mind. He turns 15 next week so he's more than old enough to decide for himself what to do. I don't know how well his stomach is doing, but I know in the letter he sent to me just before they crossed the border into Mexico he mentioned that he asked a waitress at TGI Friday's to double-check on ingredients (she had told him that there "shouldn't be" milk or gluten in the BBQ sauce) and it turned out that both were in it, so he was pretty disappointed. Not sure whether he was able to find something else on the menu, but I digress... the point is, if his stomach is torn up from the Mexico trip, he may be happy to get his camp fees refunded and just come home to recover.

Finally got a response from someone...

This is the response, along with my comments WHICH I HAVE NOT SENT YET marked off by *****. I probably need to cool my heels a bit before I send anything. Input is appreciated.

I have omitted the name of the other scout who isn't my son, just because, well, he's not my son.

On Jul 2, 2010, at 4:06 PM, Akin Blitz wrote:

Dear Ms. Price,

Matt Devore, our Scout Executive, very much regrets his inability to communicate with you personally. He and the other key Council directors are on site at various camping properties this week. I was asked a short while ago to communicate our findings to you.

Your recent communications with the Council and requests for ADA accommodation at Camp have been examined thoroughly, along with offers of accommodation that have been made and what is possible at Camp Pioneer, a High Cascades camp on the boundary of a National Wilderness Area. We have focused on what is possible and reasonable in this circumstance. In light of the totality of circumstances, we are unable to meet the collective needs of you and the two Scouts, and will therefore refund the Summer Camp fees.

Unfortunately, at the time your Troop registered for camp, the Council was given no indication whatever that any of the Scouts in the Troop had any special needs. The circumstances of concern to you did not come to the Council's attention until very recently. At registration another Scout with severe physical needs made those known. Long ago, in order to accommodate him, we committed for the week your Troop will be at camp the only location where a small mobile home/camper can be situated. That Scout will have critical need to an RV in the only space available for this purpose. Again, we made that decision for accommodation as a result of information and a request at the time of registration. There is nowhere to accommodate your 21 foot RV. As you know, this camp facility has very limited space for food storage and the preparation you require to completely meet the dietary needs and restrictions of the three of you.

****** It is not true that your council was made aware of this only recently. The accommodation requests where submitted during the timeframe requested in the Leader Guide, which was back in May. Your office misplaced them, and it was only at my insistence to the person I talked to on Wednesday that she keep looking that she finally found them filed, as she said, "in the wrong place."

Ms. Price, had your requests been made at or about the time of registration so that the Council had time to staff the needs of the two troops desiring special needs accommodation in order to come to Pioneer, perhaps a number of alternatives not available at this late time could have been identified, including a different week for your Troop. I understand that this afternoon, you have for the first time, claimed that others are to blame and that forms and notifications were timely filed and lost by the Council. It may be that someone it your Troop did not pass them on to the Council. We have no way of getting to the bottom of assessing blame, and even if we could do so, that would not change the circumstance or the necessity of the decision I write to convey.

**** If the ASM in charge of camping at my troop had not filed the paperwork, the lady in your office would not have located them when I called her on Wednesday. So your argument is obviously incorrect.

We regret this decision. We strongly believe that every Scout should have a Summer Camp experience, and we are truly sorry that we did not work together more effectively to make that happen for _______ and Zach this year at Camp Pioneer. We hope that in the future, advance planning and early and clear communication will allow us to better serve the boys' needs.

**** I understand that the space for the RV is not available, but your Council needed to contact me to make other arrangements, not lose the paperwork. When I talked to Aaron the other day, who by the way has not responded to me since then except to tell me that all requests for accommodation had been declined and leave me a non-working email address to respond to, I also asked about being able to cook in the kitchen. I was perfectly willing to try to work with you on alternative solution. I even have a current Food Handler's card from the State of Oregon so legal regulations allowing me in the kitchen should not be an issue. But that request was denied as well. I have tried and tried to reach someone on the phone to see if anything else can be worked out, but to no avail.

**** ______ is the SPL and will be coming to camp anyway, even though he will not be able to eat much. Zach is on his way home from Mexico and should cross the border tomorrow morning, at which point I will try to contact him and find out what he wishes to do. I appreciate your willingness to refund our camp fees, and I will let you know whether Zach will be taking you up on that offer or not.

Sincerely yours,

C. Akin Blitz

CPC BSA Executive Board

At the request of the Scout Executive

Office: 503.248.1134

Fax: 503.224.8851

ablitz@bullardlaw.com

But to be fair, it's a non-working *email* for the food services director. When he calls me, the caller ID is blocked. He won't give me his number and neither will the council. I asked.

Yes, our council is a hack job. There. I said it.

I did call. Only option is to forward a message, which has been done. I will call again, though, since I haven't heard back.

(Update. Called again. Left another voicemail. Hah. Also realized son won't be stateside until tomorrow morning so I can't talk to him until then).(This message has been edited by liz)

Thanks for all the posts... here's where I am now...

... I'd love to talk to the Camp Ranger, but the council refuses to give me his contact information or even his name. All they will do is forward a message and let me hope he gets back to me. I have a feeling that talking to the Scout Executive this late in the game is going to be nigh on impossible.

... The ASM who was supposed to follow up with this is friends with the camp ranger who was there last year... but (1) last time I asked he wasn't sure if he was still the camp ranger this year, and (2) he dropped the ball (albeit due to a family emergency) and didn't follow up. He was confident that he could get anything he asked for because, and I quote, "He LOVES our troop and wishes we'd come to his camp every year." Me, on the other hand, I'm just a mom who councils merit badges and drives Scouts around. Nobody in the Council knows me, although my leadership of the Railroading trip last year has earned a reputation apparently... and I managed to accommodate every single dietary need in the Troop with no additional expense or hassle to anybody. Granted, that was under 25 people (kids and adults combined), but we had a higher percentage of various dietary needs because several of our adults have food allergies/problems too & they were all on the trip.

... I'm hoping next year won't be so much of an issue because I think I'm bowing out of the troop and doing advising for the Venturing Crew my older son is starting up... (if only they can find a CO). I don't even know whether they'll be doing summer camp since I'm not aware of any area Scout camps that accept co-ed venturing crews. Their current plan is to mainly camp at a different national park every summer. And when the kids cook for themselves, the problem disappears entirely. BUT... I'm with Lisabob in that I really feel the Council is being rotten by dismissing our request entirely and not offering any viable alternative other than "let the kid starve or eat cardboard all week."

... I haven't heard from my son yet today. I hope they're stateside by now but I'll try calling his youth pastor's cel again soon. I think I've come up with a plan (as posted earlier) that will at least make sure he gets the basic things he needs for the week even though it will be a horribly boring meal plan and he may never eat Pad Thai again after this... but I'm feeling really rotten about the reality that I probably just can't go. I promised the kids (not just mine, but my whole car full of boys I was driving home last year) a year ago that I'd go to camp this year and help out, because frankly the other adult leaders in our troop have a way of making things totally NOT FUN and I'm not afraid to pull them aside and tell them to lay off. But a year ago I didn't know I was going to be 7 months pregnant and LOSING weight and have to be so incredibly anal about meeting my own nutritional needs on a daily basis.

... I do understand the objection to RVs in camp, it's just that every other accommodation is even more complicated. It was the one solution I could think of that would not separate the kids from their troop during meal times (I could bring the specially prepared meals right to the table at serving time) and fully meet all of our nutritional needs for the week without the camp staff ever having to look at us. And if that's not acceptable, fine, but yesterday was not the day to tell me so... and then not leave me any phone number where I can reach anybody, and the email the food services guy left on my voicemail bounced, and I'm left in the lurch.

So, when I hear from my son we will decide whether he wants to go to camp anyway with a box of food I can put together for him and he can eat the same meal every day for a week by using the camp microwave, OR... he won't want to go and I will turn over the quest of getting a refund onto my husband because I'm just too hormonal and will probably start bawling if I deal with it. And that's just freaking embarrassing.

You are right that this whole thing would be solved if it were a camp set up for the campers to cook their own meals. Unfortunately, NONE of our Council's camps are set up like that. They are all dining-hall based.

I agree that the kid who is afraid to stick out because he's different needs to grow up and take it. It's not as if the other kids are going to pick on him. He actually just earned Eagle this year and is the SPL and easily the most popular kid in the troop. I'm a little floored by the "I don't want to be a bother" attitude he has, except that I think it's really coming from his mom.

It won't take days to shop if I or the kids can have access to a way to cook. The problem comes trying to find all ready-to-eat meals for an entire week. Gluten-free by itself is probably doable, especially since I've been doing gluten-free cooking for three years now and have it down pretty well. It's the combination of gluten and dairy free that I'm still trying to figure out, as my son was just diagnosed with these two problems fairly recently. Again, for meals we actually cook at home, it's not a problem; and we have some staples that can get him through a weekend of camping.

If we throw balanced nutrition to the wind we can make it work, and I think that's just what we'll have to do. Again, I can't afford to do that right now, but my son probably can. Left to their own devices teenagers rarely eat a balanced diet anyway.

I cooked up 3 lbs of ground beef tonight and divided it into half a dozen ziplock freezer bags and stuck them in the freezer. That will get real boring real quick but it will serve the purpose and I think he can fit that much in the freezer. I can send microwavable "rice bowls" to eat with the ground beef, and Pad Thai kits and rice-based ramen-like noodles for lunch, and cereal and almond-milk for breakfast, and he'll survive for the week if he wants to eat the same meal every day. I'll toss in a can of Manwich sauce for variety one night to mix with his beef, and a can of refried beans and a bag of corn chips for another night... and in theory they should have fruit and vegetables at camp to include. If they have room in the freezer for it I can send a loaf of bread and a jar of peanut butter as well. Gluten-free bread has almost no shelf life so it really has to stay frozen.

I think he'll be in California where I can get a hold of him sometime tomorrow. I left a text for his youth pastor to have him call me as soon as they get across the border. We'll see whether he's managing his diet well enough on his two-week work trip to Mexico so he will feel like he can take one more week of crappy food before he gets a real meal or if he just wants to come home. Since the council really screwed up with the paperwork, I'm not going to take "no" for an answer on a refund if he decides their piddly excuse for an accommodation isn't good enough. At least I can have a nice birthday dinner waiting for him at home since his birthday is the last day of camp. I think he deserves a gluten-free cake and some non-dairy ice cream after that.

Ok, I looked up all their stuff on their website and read the ingredients lists...

None of the dried Knorr products (soups, side dishes) are wheat and dairy free except for the "Long Grain & Wild Rice" Sidekick dish. And no local store around here carries the Sidekick line as near as I can tell.

All their sauces, gravies, and soups, which are available locally, have either wheat or dairy or both in them.

I think my son can probably manage... miserably... on rice, rice noodles, and pouches of chicken for a week, but I hope they'll have enough adults to cover for the week because I won't be able to go unless they'll waive their "no fuel" rule and allow me a camp stove. If my son gets sick because of a poor diet at camp, he'll recover. But I just can't afford to not eat healthy food for a week right now.

If I had more time, I could order plenty of stuff on Amazon. But it's too late for that now.

I do have a few bags of shelf-stable chicken.

The flavored items usually have wheat and/or dairy in them.

All the Knorr brand products I've ever looked at contained gluten and/or dairy, although I admit I haven't looked at them all. If I had more time, I could probably spend a few days sitting in a grocery store reading labels, but I really don't have that kind of time.

If we're allowed to bring a camp stove, I think we'll be OK.

And yes, we're 3 out of 200 people, which is exactly why I was trying so hard to come up with a solution that would require absolutely NOTHING from the camp staff or facilities.

* Although it may be possible to rent a small fridge, I don't know where I'd find one on such short notice. Any ideas? Still don't know where I'd plug it in, though.

* Last year, my son was not yet diagnosed, so he ate the regular camp food. The other kid pretty much starved as long as he could, then was reduced to things like trying to get the corn coating off the corn dogs because he was so hungry he couldn't take it anymore. Which isn't an acceptable solution, of course, because even if he's lucky and the hot dog doesn't contain gluten, the flour from the batter has cooked into it and can't be removed. He was super sick by the end of the week and took several days to recover.

If I remember correctly, they do not allow things like "fuel" (i.e. propane or any similar product) in the campsites. Only wood. I know the adult leaders have griped about this in the past because the kids aren't allowed to bring their backpacking stoves. But I will check tomorrow when the Council office opens back up.

I can probably manage cooking over the open fire if I have to, but I am not sure we'll have enough firewood available to cook every day. And again, the biggest problem here is not that I "can't" come up with another solution, it's that it's such short notice.

Many easy-to-prepare type gluten-free foods need to be ordered online and can't be purchased in the grocery store, for one thing. I don't have that problem at home because our meat comes from our own sheep or traded with other farms for pork or beef... fresh produce is always an option when available, and for a starch we can usually do potatoes, rice, or something like corn tortillas. And the store does carry gluten-free pasta. But the stuff the camp serves the kids all comes from the Sysco food truck and is the cheapest, nastiest stuff you can find. I am fairly sure their hamburgers contain "fillers" (they're really disgusting... I used to choke them down before I knew about my gluten problem) and those fillers often consist of things like wheat and oats.

Breakfast shouldn't be a problem as I already have a stash of gluten-free oatmeal, can buy Corn Chex at any grocery store, and can make oatmeal or eggs over a camp fire. Again, that's going to be problematic for the kid who refuses to look different at meals, but I guess that's his problem. He can either be hungry or learn that he's just always going to be different and deal with it.

Ok, here's where I shamefully admit something, though. I am an abject failure at getting or keeping a campfire going. So when the boys are off working on their merit badges, I'm going to be spending the entire day burning my fingers on boxes and boxes of matches trying to get the fire lit so I can cook dinner. And then it probably still won't be cooked. The boys are all pretty good at it, but they're going to be busy doing summer camp stuff. This is where it's a different situation from when the kids go camping for the weekend. They have TIME to prepare their own meals (because of the special dietary needs, their patrol never cooks together; they all prepare their meals "backpacking style" and each kid brings his own food and backpacking stove). But at summer camp, they don't have time in the schedule set aside for cooking, because that's what the dining hall is for.