Lisabob

Actually, Tiger is probably the easiest year to accommodate repeats. We had a boy repeat Tigers and it was no problem. First, the boy really LIKED a lot of the activities and had no issues with repeating a few things. Second, there are lots of choices and different paths to take within the program (go-see-its). Third, the learning curve for Tigers isn't all that steep, so the new boys quickly caught up to where this fellow was at. Fourth, he was able to "help" at first - help teach the new boys cub scout oath, help with flags, etc. - which made him feel special. A lot of what happens in Tigers is basically social. They want to make friends and play and do neat "big boy" things (while also learning and being socialized into a norm of community involvement). The boy probably will be fine, doing it twice.

40-48 weeks per year of storage and upkeep may be costly. Mildew, critter damage, etc. (not to mention wear & tear during camp) Besides, most units already have their own tents, so what's the need for camp-supplied tents? Still, I hear you on the nostalgia thing.

Let him do what he feels is right for his boy. Honestly, you've found a potential good Tiger leader, and you're fussing about whether his son, who is being held back, will be in Tigers again? Ultimately, this is the parents' decision on whether or not to hold the boy back in scouting. It is not out of the realm of reasonableness to do so, depending on the boy. And the best judges of this are his parents. (I've seen both happen, and both can work. Don't lose any more sleep over this, and tell others to mind their own business, if they try sticking their noses into this family's arrangement.)

I can understand why you would step back, with hope that he would respond better to someone else (or if you were in the background). Unfortunately, things didn't work out that way - and in my experience, they rarely do. Here's the thing: you informed him how the pack handles fundraisers and he told you to buzz off, and yet you (plural - not you, personally, but the whole committee) let him run the fundraiser anyway. That's the point at which he should probably have been informed that he would not be running this fundraiser. As has been said, this is a live & learn experience, at this point. A question: Was the amount of money he turned over to you similar to what you would have expected, in comparison to past years? If yes, then close the matter for this year. If no, and if the difference is very large, then it is time to involve your CO as a few posters have also suggested. Good luck with this - one thing I've learned from scouting is that there are a lot of adults out there who are royal pains to deal with sometimes. Keep focused on why you do this (to provide a great program for the boys!) and on how many other great parents you've met, in the process.

The fact that you have no way of knowing how much money was raised, or if it was all turned over to the pack, is a problem. Clearly, this needs to be addressed going forward so that you do not have to deal with this again. As others mention, you probably need a different method of finding volunteers to run your fundraisers. I also agree that this person's behavior (as you have explained it) would give me extreme pause. If there are no other explanations AT ALL, **AND** if he refuses to share the books with anyone from the pack, then I would say I don't trust this guy as a leader. Something here is not right. However, I am sensitive to the notion that the guy may have just wanted to keep the money safe. I used to run our pack's popcorn show & sells. There were times when I had several thousand dollars of the pack's popcorn money - in cash - in my living room. Made me very uncomfortable. Yet I did not have access to the pack's bank account, and our treasurer (who did) was a pain to get hold of. Perhaps, if I had thought of it, I might have opened a temporary account to hold all that money. (Of course, I'd have shared the details with the rest of the pack leadership, too) Perhaps it will help your pack to put together a guideline for any fundraisers, explaining how money should be handled. That's better than you just telling somebody. You may also want your treasurer to go over the guidelines with a potential fundraising coordinator BEFORE the fundraiser begins. If that person won't agree, then find a different person to coordinate the fundraiser. End of story.

Jamist649 asks Why not... My answer: Because kids who are in the minority hate being made tokens. Particularly those who are used to being harassed - as is sadly common for many Muslim kids all over America - just need a chance to be kids, to be friends, and not to have to represent their group or "teach" others about themselves or anything like that. Let them be kids - end of story. And Scoutfish, this: "After 9-11 especially, any dark skined person was harrassed for possibly being Muslim..even when it was completely obvious they were Hispanic, ASian, Indian, etc..." is unfortunately NOT reserved to the South. My young man, who tans exceedingly well, has endured unbelievable racism and vitriol at school, in scouting, and in the local community. He is not Muslim and he is not of Middle Eastern descent - he just has dark hair & slightly tan skin. Jamist, I hope you will ruthlessly cut off any adult who makes such ignorant comments as the one you quoted (which I believe, and which is probably fairly common). You have no idea how damaging that crap is to kids when they have to put up with it day in and day out - worse, when they expect scout leaders to stand up to it and they are let down, instead. Please protect this boy from that sort of adult garbage. I ask you that as a mom who can't stand seeing how hurt her boy has been by this stuff.

There is no place in the scouting literature where a specific deity is specified. Consequently, a scout pledges to do his duty to whatever he believes that word means, in his religious tradition. It could mean something similar to the Christian concept, or not - that is defined by the scout & his family (not the pack, or the BSA) & doesn't require any kind of public statement on the scout's part. Treat him just like you treat every single other boy in the pack. If religious questions or issues come up, ask his parents to provide input. It is no different from having a Hindu, Jewish, or Buddhist boy (or Southern Baptist, or Catholic, or whatever) in your pack. Keep in mind that in all religions, there are different interpretations & degrees of observance. Just like not all Christians go to church several times a week, not all Jews keep kosher, not all Catholics regularly go to confession, etc.. And by all means, don't expect him to be an example for the rest of the boys - just let him be a boy in the den! That alone will teach the boys more than anything you might do.

What you have written about his recent troop visit would be enough for me to want to look elsewhere, too. Maybe the hardest part for him is having to explain his choice to the others. You might be able to help him develop some friendly responses that don't seem to bash the DL's troop, but are also honest about what he wants from scouting. Sooner or later, everyone has to make good choices that fit their needs, rather than just staying with the group because "we've always been together." It might also help him to think ahead a little ways (he sounds like a thinker). He's getting to an age where people start going in their own directions. Probably some of the boys he goes to school with, will opt for private high schools. They are eventually going to move on to college, and they'll all pick what works best for them. That's just part of life & growing up. And just because people branch out, they can still retain older friendships. Joining a different troop doesn't prevent him from hanging out with his cub buddies from time to time, too. Good for you, that you are giving him room to grow. It isn't easy, but it sounds like you really understand your young man.

Sailingpj, I want to thank you for volunteering in an after school program. That's great. The fact that you are a little bit closer to these kids, age-wise, probably gives you more "street cred" than any teacher or parent. If you tell them that writing matters, they may actually believe you, especially since you are an engineering major and not a humanities or social science major. As for addressing writing errors: try thinking about it in terms of lower order concerns, middle order concerns and higher order concerns (LOCs/MOCs/HOCs). Address these concerns in this order, high to low. This can help you, and the students, avoid feeling overwhelmed by the volume of errors, and it will direct your (and their) attention to the biggest problems, first. For example, a HOC would be a paper where the student has no clear thesis or point, where you can't figure out what argument they are attempting to make. Usually, disorganized writing of that sort reflects disorganized thinking. They may not understand the assignment (have them explain the directions to you), or they may not understand the underlying course material, or they may not have spent enough time thinking about the material before they started just writing whatever popped into their heads. Address that first, because technically perfect prose with no clear point is still dreadful. MOCs might include things like unclear sentences, fuzzy main point of a paragraph, poor use of supporting detail in a paragraph, weak transitions from one idea to the next (between paragraphs or even between sentences), etc. These are important, of course, but you can't really address these if the writer hasn't figured out the HOCs, first. LOCs are sentence-level issues, like proper punctuation, spelling, word choice, etc. I am NOT making a case for ignoring these, but unless you want to be someone's editor (making them reliant on you), this is usually not where you want to begin. It is, however, where most of us start when we correct student writing. Why? Because it is the easiest. These types of errors tend to jump right off the page at us. It also takes us relatively little effort or involvement to see & correct these errors. MOCs and HOCs are not as amenable to a quick fix. But here is the thing: Students whose readers focus mainly on LOCs tend to become reliant on their readers to clean up their writing, rather than learning to do it for themselves. We become nothing more than another type of "spell check" for them. Further, if you mark up every single spelling & punctuation error, the student may become overwhelmed and just throw up their hands when they get back a draft covered in ink. If your students' eyes glaze over, or if you see students take a quick glance at a marked-up paper and then shove it into their folder (or throw it in the trash on the way out the door), then you have wasted your time marking up all those errors, because the student hasn't really learned anything from your corrections. Mark up some examples of a problem - but make them find and fix the rest of the problems. Don't do it for them. You are right that students won't learn to correct their own mistakes (or avoid making them), if no one teaches them the correct way to do things. So in any given writing assignment, maybe pick two or three common, glaring, errors (LOCs) that a student is making and teach them the "rule" for those errors. For example, you might want to teach them the correct usage for to/too/two and there/their/they're . Or maybe to use apostrophes only to show possession, not to make plurals (plural's?!). Bottom line: When helping students to become better writers, prioritize. What are the biggest concerns? What can you do to help them express their thoughts, without becoming their editor? And anything you can do to get them to READ, will also help. Students who are exposed to good writing will pick up good habits. Students who "don't like reading" always worry me - and they also tend to have very weak writing skills.

Ahem... About the bike... Can't get my son to ride one. Never could. This bothers his dad (who competes in semi-pro road races) to no end. It doesn't bother me that much, except I feel kind of bad that he has never experienced the freedom that bike riding can provide to kids. I'd be more worried if he couldn't swim, but he has been a regular fish since he was very small. The truth is, when he was little, he didn't want to lose control, and so he wouldn't get up enough speed to maintain his balance. It didn't seem to matter what people told him - he was not going to do it. And when he was older and understood why a little speed would be a good thing, he was embarrassed and avoided the subject. We live in an area where you can walk to a lot of places, so he has gotten by without really needing a bike. Actually, he was talking about learning (in secret) this summer, because the boys are going to a scout camp where pretty much everybody rides to get around the camp grounds. We'll see. (he can dress himself just fine, though. And he cooks pretty well, too. )

Funny thing, what kids "know." My son could read from a fairly early age, but for whatever reason, it didn't occur to him until somewhere in 1st grade that you cannot rearrange the letters in a name, and have it be the same name. For a while, he just preferred to spell his name backward. No change in pronunciation - just letter order. He could NOT understand why his teacher would get so vexed. Writing - again, I don't understand why exactly, but for much of elementary school, he could not figure out how to properly grasp a pencil in order to produce legible handwriting. Didn't seem to matter how many times he was shown or which grippy things we put on his pencils - it just didn't click until...one day, it did. Shoe tying - don't even get me started. I admit we resorted to lace locks. It was not worth the battles or the tears. He eventually figured it out. He has a cousin who you might believe had never been shown how to use a fork & knife properly. Actually I know his parents have shown, instructed, encouraged, reprimanded, and occasionally bellowed at him about it - but the kid just could not seem to coordinate the fork hand and the knife hand at the same time. Again, eventually he got it. Neither my son nor his cousin are developmentally delayed in any broad sense. These are just their quirks. So yeah, funny what kids seem to "know," sometimes in spite of their parents' best efforts.

Well it just goes to show how long it can take for info to filter down. I thought I had heard about this shirt before (here), but the folks I was talking to insisted that it was brand new, spring 2011. So I figured there might be yet another iteration of the shirt "out there." Anyway, I won't be buying it. I am fortunate enough to have some discretionary scouting money, but it isn't bottomless and my old shirt, and my son's old shirts, will work just fine.

Good to know the CDC is thinking out of the box on this: http://emergency.cdc.gov/socialmedia/zombies_blog.asp

Understand, I wasn't attempting to criticize, just to understand where you were coming from. I have not seen anything about a new New "bring the parents back in" delivery method. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but your post is the only place I've heard this so far. It may be that your friend's info is a misunderstanding, too. I don't know. Honestly - I am not a huge fan of assigning weekly pencil & paper homework/worksheets to cub scouts, though! (Thinking about my own son, who loved cubbing and has always been extremely verbal, but just struggled to put thoughts on paper until about 4th grade - this would have been a weekly battle, if we had needed to write something every week for cubs. Ugh. I shudder at the thought.) Anyway, what matters is what works for you. As somebody else said, many den leaders had been doing a lot of rank work in den meetings long before the official 2010 delivery changes that the BSA implemented. And you're right, if the book actually says "at home" then that's where something needs to be done.

Experience is one of the best remedies. Next time, he'll probably pay better attention to his feet. Maybe he'll even want to teach the newer scouts about moleskin and other good tips for having happy feet. We all know the boys are more likely to listen to each other about this stuff, than to us. Did he have fun, aside from having sore feet?

Don't take offense, Engineer61. I know lots of boys (my own sometimes included) who have said the best thing about camping is that they get to take a break from their parents/siblings. And I know more than a handful who have expressed the wish that "mom" or "dad" **would** stay home sometimes, instead of insisting on attending every campout with them, too. Just a normal part of the growing-up process.

So the other day my late-teen son said to me: Mom, what am I going to do when I'm too old to be a boy scout and I've outgrown my scout pants? Maybe we should stock up on some bigger pairs now, while I'm still allowed to buy them. Someone in the supply division of the BSA must have gotten their wings right about then.

I heard the other night that BSA is issuing yet another new uniform shirt (not clear what is changing this time around). I also heard that some councils (ours) are telling folks that they must buy this latest version of the shirt to staff certain training courses and to attend Jambo 2013. Now honestly, I don't like the uniform shirts much to begin with. But setting that aside, I would like to know: WHY? Do you find the rationale that "everybody has to have the same version of the uniform shirt to be 'uniform'" to be compelling enough to justify shelling out yet another $30+ for this latest version? Is this just the BSA's version of planned obsolescence? Grr. And do we know what the latest changes are supposed to be? I think they already decided to remove the smokes pocket, right? Are there additional changes beyond that?

for many boys whose parents share Engineer61's views, we need to add: 11) A whole weekend away from mom & dad! (and mom & dad may very well agree)

Some of them just might, if they (or more likely, their parents) are shocked when they don't get their rank badge with the other boys. However, it sounds like the culture of your den is that the boys aren't all that into badges, or else they'd have finished already. With only 2 of 5 finishing, it is "normal" not to finish. Now that leaves me wondering about what you said about the new delivery method. My understanding of the new cub scouting delivery method is that almost all of the rank advancement stuff gets done IN the den these days. I had thought the emphasis was on moving AWAY from expecting parents to do it at home (because, as you see, they don't do it). So what is happening for you guys, that you are moving in the other direction? Don't get me wrong, I'm not attempting to browbeat you. Local options work for local situations and I'm sure you have good reasons for the delivery method you described. I just am curious about it, and wonder whether anybody anticipated and planned for the consequences that many boys wouldn't finish their rank requirements, as a result. From all you've written about the pack, I kind of doubt that this was the case? Oh, and if you do get a bunch of new 5th graders next year - there is no law saying you have to cross everybody to boy scouts all at once. If your current (handful) boy is ready to go in February (or earlier?!) then let him go at that time. If the other boys aren't ready, work with the Scoutmaster to have them cross over when they are. It puts some additional pressures on the Boy Scout Troop program, but these are not insurmountable, given the situation you are dealing with.

You know, one year we had a family in our pack who had a lot of money to throw around. They were very nice people, with two well-mannered boys. They did ask a ton of questions about pack finances (the dad seemed to think we had a CFO and a team of accountants - BWahahahaha! For our poor little pack!) and they got themselves appointed to the committee and as an asst. DL (as I recall). But they were always on vacation or off somewhere, and hardly ever came to anything. They bought an electronic timing system and computer software for our pinewood track - a fairly expensive item, and one that the pack would not have been able to purchase that year, without this family's generous donation. This was their only involvement in preparing for the race. As a result, when they showed up at PWD day, they seemed to feel they should have the right to run the show. Down to the details of which cars their sons' cars should race against. Sigh. Honestly, I loved volunteering in cub scouts, but at times I wished we could send a few of the parents on a long walk off a short pier, so to speak. (Don't doubt that many people have invested uncounted hours, and money, in the pack. You've just finished your first year with the pack and so you may not have a strong sense of what those folks have done. Some of those people may be wondering where you think you get off.)

The guy is lucky you didn't call the cops and get him arrested for drunk driving and child endangerment on his way home. If you are really going to stay: tell each parent who approached you that they need to take up this guy's position as CC with the charter org, because YOU aren't the one who can remove him. Tell them, also, that they had best be prepared to step up. Give each a specific role you expect them to play. If none will do it, again, you are just going to have to back off and either (continue to) do it all yourself, or leave on your own (I bet they follow you). Honestly, I wish you lived in my area, because we could find about 8 good packs that would love, love, LOVE to have you involved with them. And that would provide a quality program to your son. Finally, about the reason this fellow drinks: I do not buy that he drinks (and drives his children around while drunk) because he has had a rough couple of years. People who do that, tend to do it regardless of what's going on - or they find "reasons" for why they do it - or their decisions to do so *cause* them to have a rough time, which becomes a catalyst for more drinking - but the truth is, most are untreated alcoholics and would do it anyway. That doesn't make them bad people, but it does make them a danger to others when they get behind a wheel.

Rtullier, every parent has a right to point out what they perceive as problems and everybody - you, the other pack leaders, other parents - wants a good experience for their kids. The assumption I was (and am) operating under is not that you shouldn't voice your opinion, but rather, that you need to do it in a constructive manner. Otherwise, you will simply create ill-will and quite possibly, contribute to the implosion of a cub pack. I have seen this happen in real life and I know from first-hand experience, how hard it can be for packs to recover from problems created by adults. While all you mention may be fair ground for future improvements, "reporting" is a bit over the top in a children's program staffed by volunteers. Further, the day of the race is not a good time to try to get changes made - too much else going on, and last-minute changes are bound to go poorly or upset still other people. I am not surprised that you didn't get a positive reaction to your requests for changes at/during the race. With regard to chain of command stuff - if you have not yet done so, I encourage you to take cub leader training (which is now available on line). It will clarify the way cub packs are supposed to be set up. If you continue to feel a need to "go up the chain," I suggest you begin with your pack committee. You might also want to think long and hard about "reporting" things of this nature to your pack's charter organization. The plain truth is that many packs have a hands-off charter org that do not want to be involved in every petty adult squabble about car races (sorry, but that's what this will look like to the uninvolved CO). At a minimum, expect your CO to ask exactly what you want them to do about it? Are you willing to step in and replace the pack's committee chair or cubmaster over this issue? If not, tread lightly. If so, you'd better be ready for fall-out and internal power struggles among the rest of the pack's parents who may disagree with you. I have seen COs dump entire packs (kill the pack) rather than sort out adult squabbling like this. Know your CO well, before you decide to go this route. And about fairness: a lot of times, what children perceive as "unfair" and what adults perceive as "unfair" really differ. Many times, the boys would be happy to just race their cars. And since life is inherently unfair, there is something to be said for teaching by example that there are better and worse ways to deal with the occasional curve ball we are thrown.

"Report?" To whom? You do realize, don't you, that pretty much every cub scout event, meeting, campout, etc., is completely run by volunteers? What are you going to do, fire them? How about thanking them for all the time they've donated so that there was a cub pack for you & your kid to join, instead? No matter what may have gone wrong, there is no call for adults to behave badly over what is supposed to be a fun kids' program. That includes attempting to "report" volunteers who may have bungled things, but probably were trying their level best under less than ideal conditions (and I'm sure they already know that there were problems). If you are that unhappy with how things turned out this year, get involved as a volunteer (with a positive attitude), yourself. I also want to point out that all of the complaints you list are things that ADULTS may get all twisted over, but KIDS aren't going to give a whit about. Kids simply like building and racing cars. They don't care whether they know what the end stop material is made of or anything of the sort. Pinewood is about having a fun experience where you work together with your boy to build a neat car and then watch it zoom down the track. It only becomes about the things you listed when adults loose sight of the purpose, and of their priorities. (This message has been edited by lisabob)

Imagine the recruiting conversations with Johnny Webelos-Scout's parents. Parent: Do you allow drinking on campouts? SM: Well now, I don't drink on campouts, but I can't vouch for any of the other adults who come along with us, and who may be responsible for your child's well being. But they'll leave the campsite to do their drinking so don't you worry about Johnny seeing them with beer bottles in hand. Seriously - how can this be spun to be anything other than a problem? Why do parents entrust their kids to scout leaders one weekend a month? Will parents continue to do so, if they think your adult "leaders" are likely to nip off to the bar at any time? I know I would not. And my kid would NOT ride in one of those parents' cars again. People can be impaired and dangerous drivers even when they "seem" fine. And your "fine" may not be someone else's "fine." We tell teen drivers this all the time, yet then we turn the other way when some adults do it on a scout outing. Teens also don't need more subtle - or not so subtle - messages that "drinking is cool" or "real men drink." These guys have shown poor self control and poor judgment, and I'm not sure I'd trust them with my kid.