KurtB

I can understand some confusion. Our rule (which as I said was created before I was around) puts the responsibility of when the knife gets used upon the scout and their Akela. In a way, it is adding to the requirements as the Chip does state that the scout would be allowed to carry a knife to designated cub scout functions. Often, an Akela will give their scout "free reign" to carry their knives (especially at the Webelos level). When that happens, the parent will usually tell the other adults about it, and that is where it ends. Nobody will force a scout to "not carry" if they have been given permission by their Akela. I see that rule as different from limiting at what rank the chip can even be earned. Most packs that put in place such a restriction, pick the Bear rank because it is part of one achievement in the Bear handbook. If the G2SS states that it would be OK for Wolves, why limit it to Bears? Being able to safely handle a knife it not as much an age based skill as it is a skill based on fine motor control and personal responsibility. I have met Tiger cubs that I would trust handling a knife before some Bear scouts that I have met. What is going to happen when a pack with a "not before Bear" rule, takes in a transferred Wolf that has earned their Chip? Or to place the focus on a different part of the cub scout program, what will happen when a committee passes a rule about "no scout below the Webelos rank, could earn the beltloops required by the Webelos program"? Both would be rules put in place by a committee in direct contrast to the program as spelled out by the BSA, strictly based on when an activity appears in the handbooks. Kurt (For the record, if I felt like fighting the fight, I would attempt to remove the "parent carry" rule that our Pack uses. Fortunately, it is not strongly enforced which keeps me from having to fight to get rid of it. It is treated more as a guideline to parents than a hard and fast rule. Maybe at the next committee meeting I will propose that the rule be removed. Based on the fact that it is not really enforced, there may not be much of a fight.)

As a side comment about the "kids running around with knives" concern that was expressed. The basic rule that we have when it comes to knives at campouts (or the occational den meeting that they may be needed for) is this: The chip allows you to USE a knife when required, however, the parent is who gets to carry it when it is not being used. That "rule" as put in place before I was involved with my son's Pack. And it has helped to prevent problems that happened in the past. If the scout does not have the knife in his pocket, it cannot get lost, pulled on another scout ("but I was just showing him what it looked like"), or used to carve their initials into a tree (or other misuse). If a parent gives the scout his knife to use, there should not be concerns with him "running around with it". Because the parent should know why the knife was given to the scout. Our scouts are taught that just like any other tool, when they need it, they go and get it from where it is safely stored. In the case of a pocket knife, it's proper storage place is with the parent. In the case of a hammer, the storage place is in the tool box (not under the bed where it got pushed along with the dirty clothes because you did not put it away when done using it). For a screw driver....you get the point...

Simple. If the committee tells a Wolf scout that they cannot earn the chip, they are changing (subtracting from) the program provided by the BSA - Something that the committee does not have the power to do. Again, if the Pack policy is "No chip until Bear." what happens when a Wolf transfers in, that has already earned their chip? Will the committee just take away a chip that was correctly earned somewhere else? How will they explain that to the scout? This is an ongoing problem with Pack policies that directly go against the program the BSA provides. What will the committee do when somebody enters the pack that IS following the program?

Not to cut short the fun Semper and Jeff are having, but the real decision of when a scout earns their chip rests with the Akela, and the G2SS. If a Wolf would like to earn the chip, there is nothing that the pack can do to stop it. The chip indicates that the scout has been taught knife safety, and will promise to be safe with the knife. The pack can control if knives are allowed at certain functions. It is within their power to state that only scouts of Bear rank or above, that have earned their chip, can use a knife at the campout. It is not within the power of the pack committee to disallow a scout from earning the chip at all. What will you do when a Wolf scout transfers into your pack, after earning the chip when with his old pack?

Earlier this year, I had the same questions when I looked at Mr. Steele's tracker. Incorrectly thinking it was just a mistake on his part (we all make mistakes), I sent an email to Frank asking if he realized that his tracker was incorrect. His reply to me was to the effect that "because so many packs, including his own, used the "extra" achievements towards arrow points (like for the Bear rank)", he designed the tracker that way. He also told me that if I wanted to modify the tracker to make it correct, feel free. He also asked that I not make public my copy if I did modify it. It took all of 15 minutes for me to make it track correctly. Kurt

nldscout - 2 words "Safety Key". Every safe launch system contains one, regardless of it is designed for a single or multi launch pad. If the key is in my pocket while working on a rocket, I know that the system will not fire. If the key is not in my pocket, nobody is within 15 feet of the launch pad. Simple, Safe, and consistent with the NAR safety code - it is like a scout rifle range, only one person is in charge, everybody knows the rules and follows them, or the event does not happen. VinceC - I would suggest checking out www.nar.org. Look for a local rocketry club in your area. Somebody in the local club will be more than willing to help you out with your plans. Multi-launch systems are not difficult to build, but finding plans online are. The club sees any "new blood" that gets interested in their hobby as a good thing, and I know the club in my area is always willing to help the scout groups. Estes does have some documents on their web site that covers the electrical basics of designing a system, but does not provide any plans. They are also no help in getting questions answered. When I contacted them to ask how much I could extend the leads on their standard launch controller before the resistance would be too great to launch a rocket, their answer was "we cannot suggest modifying the standard system". I guess I can understand the "we don't want to get sued" mentality... Check out a local club, they will help you out with the launch controller, and probably give you some good advice about when and where to do your launch (local laws can be tricky, and the clubs should know about most of them). Kurt

Because I'm the parent and you are the child living under my roof. - I agree fully! And when they are at a friends house, library, school, etc. I can only do two things: - hope and pray that I have done my job as a parent well enough that I don't have anything to worry about. - hope and pray that you are doing your job so that if there is something that I need to worry about, you will not hesitate to inform me. As a volunteer for the school that also charters our Pack, I have the responsibility to monitor the internet and PC activity of the students (I am a network administrator by profession). You would be amazed at the web sites that I see blocked by our filtering software on a regular basis. Some of them are obvious mistakes (a typo in a URL can lead to all sorts of things), but others are obviousy intentional attempts to look at inappropriate sites. All I can assume is that they found them at home or somewhere else, and they are trying to show off to their friends. My son is only 8, but has heard the "cyber safety" lecture so many times I think he could probably run a class on it. Kurt

Welcome. I have always found that if I ever need a refill (coffee, ideas, support, etc.). I can find it here among the dedicated volunteer that oversee and guide this "game" called scouting. Kurt

I brought up a YPT policy, and was told to mind my own business, this is the way we have always done it (wasn't a serious issue). Any YP issue is a serious issue! It may seem at the time to not be serious, but handling it with a "Butt out" attitude sends up a huge red flag in my mind.

Welcome! from another 3 Fires Scouter. Being fresh off of the Tiger trail (my son is a wolf), the one thing I can say is to not rush to earn the badge. Unlike the Wolf, Bear, & Webelos ranks, after the badge is earned, the advancement stops (no arrow points, etc.). There is still plenty of fun to be had, but getting that small token of advancement at each Pack meeting really kept the kids interested. As previously mentioned, they have until the end of the school year (June) to earn the rank. Most of all, keep having fun! You will be amazed at how fast the year seems to fly by. Kurt ACM/DL Pack2 Elgin Webmaster - Shabbona District www.shabbona.org

In our council, Pow Wow was $14 this year, including a very tasty catered lunch, and all class materials. If you wanted a printed copy of the manual, instead of the CD included in the price, it was an additional $5. As for attendance problems, our council this year did a "University of Scouting" - combining traditional Pow Wow training classes for Cub Leaders, but also various classes for Boy Scout leaders, Venture Leaders, and Den Chief training. Attendance seemed to be quite large, and the leadership seemed pleased. The only problem that I was aware of was 1 instructor the failed to show up (unfortunately, it effected one of the classes that I signed up for, so I had to quickly change my schedule and join a "class already in progress"). Overall, I would do it again, even if I had to pay more to cover the material costs for some of the more expensive classes. Kurt

Thanks for the feedback and encouragement. I am meeting with our district exec later this week, and I will be checking with him about the cost, and when the next training is happening in our area. SueM - the basic training is not an issue. I am registered as the ACM for our pack, and have been through the basic training for the CM position (as well as the Den Leader position). I am filling in for my sons Wolf den until we can find an adult to step up and fill the position - which will happen after the holidays, but that is another topic entirely.

In another thread, SueM wrote: One of the main issue that I hear from our District Training Coordinator (who is also our Wood Badge Association president) is that most Cub Scouters who come through the program never get a real chance to USE the training in the Cub Scouting program because by the time they take it, their sons are usually Webelos and so they move on to the troop level with their expertise..great for troops, but it leaves Cub Scouts lacking. I figure this questions gets asked quite a bit, but how long do you think somebody should be involved with their unit before taking WB? I am starting to consider taking the class and I want to ensure that I get the most out of the training possible. However, I have been registered as a leader for less than 1 year officially. I was very involved in my son's Tiger Cub den last year (basically like an unregistered assistant den leader), so my experience level is more like 2 years, all at the Cub level. Do you feel that is a good foundation for the class, or should I hold off another year or so? Thanks for the input. Kurt

Torveaux - I agree. The Tan shirt is too plain. The cubs spnd up to 4 years earning awards to put on the uniform, and then it is all gone (just to look like a Boy Scout). I like the service star for rank idea. So, in I understand the rules based on the inspection sheet, the Webelos badge options are... - Oval = tan shirt only - "Solo" Webelos badge or full diamond if Tiger was not earned, worn on either shirt. - "Solo" Webelos badge (or oval on Tan shirt) if they earned Tiger (not the full diamond w/ Tiger replaced). Kurt

Thanks for the idea. There are a couple of "dirt tracks" in the area, and my wife knew a few of the more skilled racing families. I think a couple of phone calls are in order...

I do not have the insignia guide handy at the moment, so much of this I am pulling from memory... (if I remember correctly) - The diamond shaped webelos badge is for those scouts that did not earn a Tiger badge. (they are suposed to occupy the same spot in the larger diamond). - The oval shaped Webelos badge can only be worn on the Tan shirt. - The oval badge replaces all of the other rank badges on the Tan shirt (not worn above the left pocket, with the other 4 badges still on the left pocket as I have seen done). If a scout that has been in the program since Tigers earns the Webelos badge, and does not replace the blue shirt with the tan one, does the Tiger badge just get replaced with the Webelos badge? I know that this sort of sounds like a "If a tree falls, and makes no sound, can it still be used for firewood?" question, but it is something that will probably be happening in our pack in the near future. TIA for the answers, Kurt

per the G2SS... I wonder what it will take to have the CO facilities declared council approved ?

OneHour, The HO scale people are what I am looking for. I knew that I had seen them before looking through one of my Dad's catalogs (He is an avid model railroader), but could not remember who made them. I hope my local shop has them, but if not, they can order them (now that I know who makes them). Thanks for the info & the link. Now I just need to make a realistic campfire and tent... Kurt

Huntr, This is almost the exact same design that I was planning on using this year as well. One of my hold-ups was trying to find a "local" supply of figures. I am taking a trip to the most well stocked private hobby shop in our area tomorrow at work. They are well known for model train supplies, so I hope I can find something that can be painted to look like a scout. If I run across something that I think will work, I will post the details for you. Kurt

We do not charge Den dues. The den's are on a "pay as you need" basis. If we have an event to go to, craft project, etc. it is either covered by the leader, or they ask the parents to pay their share. The Pack charges $35 for the year. Up from $35 last year. I say "up from" because we did cut Boy's Life out of the dues this year, but kept the dues the same. We did an informal poll of the parents, and most of them said Boy's Life really wasn't getting read, and they would rather have the $12 spent on the program instead. Those parents that would like to still have Boy's Life, are paying the additional $12. The $35 dues & popcorn sales cover all pack activities and awards. Kurt

This topic is close to my heart (or is it my sore back and feet) as I just worked our Council "Super Saturday" today... - Popcorn that is shipped to the Council from Trail's End is not returnable. The Council is responsible for all that is ordered. The way our Council works their pickup, we will not have any more than 1 partial cases of each product. Here is how we do it: 7:30am - 9:00: Units retuning unsold popcorn only (nothing going out, only stuff coming in). If the box being returned is a partial, it is held to the side until enough partials can be combined to create a full case. It is then taped shut, and treated as a complete case. 9:00am - Noon: Units with returns, and popcorn to pick up. 12-1 break for lunch (also known as clearing the line that is always behind). 1-3 Units without popcorn to drop off can come and pick up what they need. Any partial cases that are dropped off, are held next to the pallets of full cases. If you need two boxes of "Butter Light" you take it from the partial. If there is no partial case, you open a case and take the boxes that you need. There is never more than one open case at a time. This year, after nearly all 400 units came through today, our leftovers consisted of 1/2 of a pallet of "30 packs", about 2 pallets of microwave, and less than a pallet of of "caramel with peanuts", plus 3 individual cans of caramel w/ nuts. No other partial cases were left. If there were, it would have been no more than 1 of each of the products that come in cases (6 products?) Because of the "no return back to Trail's End" rules, there was product that we ran out of stock on. As a result, the units will place a "final order" for whatever they are short of. That remaining product is delivered in a couple of weeks. It is not always the best solution, but the Council would rather have to order some remaining product to fill an order after the fact, than to get stuck with a $1000+ pallet of microwave popcorn. Forcing the units to purchase the extra to fill out a case, is just not necessary. YIS, Kurt

Left, Right, Centered... You can wear them any way you wish. Just no more than 3 in a row. I have 2, they are centered, & held on with Badge Magic. I think they just looked better centered. When I get the 3rd one early next year, I will move them into a row of 3, and sew them in place. Kurt

LemSiddons, Welcome aboard. Pull up a seat and grab some coffee while it is still warm. You asked... So why do we teach camping, cooking, and first aid? We teach those skills, and many others, because they are related to the "Methods of Scouting". The methods were selected by the BSA to achieve the "Goals of Scouting". Other programs use similar items to try and achieve similar goals. Of course, that basic question "Why do we do what we do?" has sparked more discussions (and sub discussions) that possibly any other question that gets asked here on a regular basis (JMHO). The default answer is: "Because that is the program." I prefer "Because it works, and it is a lot of fun for everybody that is involved." Of course, as in everything - YMMV. Kurt

It sounds like your 11yr old has things in perspective - the money is nice, but there are other things happening that are just wrong. While you are praying, you may want to ask God for some wisom & help in finding a new Troop. Kurt

Luckly, we have not had problems with "parent built" cars. We do run an "Adult Race" - but about the only adults that participate are the den & pack leaders. cc329 - I do not understand what would make a car look like the boy made it themselves in order to qualify for your "best in show" category? We have had some very good looking cars that I know were scout built. Last year, a Webelos-II did a replica of a hot wheels police car, complete with a flashing light bar. Looked fantastic. As good if not better than I could have done, and I am an avid model builder. The car that my son built last year (as a Tiger Cub) looks better than one of the cars that my Dad built for me when I was a cub scout. I did the rough cut of the shape, drilled holes for the weights, and held the dremel tool that turned the axels while he polished them. He sanded & painted the body, added the weights, filled the holes, and even put his own wheels on (I held the axel while he pounded it in). Because I have experience with modeling, I did give him 2 bits of advice: - Spray paint gives a better look than brush. - Stickers purchased from the scout store would make cool looking flames & are easy to do (as my son says "everybody knows that flames make the car go faster"). As for cheering parents? Don't get me started on how loud my Wife and Father-in-Law got while watching my son take 4th place overall (missed 3rd by .003 seconds) in a combined District race with that same car... I will agree with you Jerry - there are too many cubs that do not get the right sort of help, or worse yet, no help at all. JMNSHO YMMV Kurt