Knot Head

We have Star & above scouts run "practice BORs" (that's what we call them) for the T rank under the eye of an ASM. We think it helps the T candidate get comfortable for his real BOR and helps the Star & above understand the adults in a BOR are not "out to get them".

It's not a requirement to participate and we don't fail anyone. It's just a good way to allow the candidate and older scouts to grow a little bit we think. We also do "practice eagle BORs" and I think it is a good idea. Kinda like practice for a job interview or oral exam at school I think. Probably takes a little pressure off the candidate too and it helps the candidate "be prepared". Any candidate could skip the practice BOR, but no one has ever complained that I know of, and most say it helped them out.

It is a shame people have horror stories about eagle BORs. Adult power trips. sheesh.

Our policy is similar the the one described by twocubdad.

In 15 years as a troop 1 scout has been expelled for cutting large holes in a tent at summer camp and also throwing his knife at a tent that was occupied by scouts.

We've been blessed the past few years with good kids.

hey eagle... our SM doesn't want scouts signing off on T21. He decides who gets to sign off and he only allows ASM & SM to sign off. Scouts teach them and decide when a scout is ready to be tested, so their "teaching reputation" is on the line during the test, but they can't sign off.

It's just the way he has things set up. I know other troops have different ways, that's just our way.

We do the same type of campout right after crossover Buffalo Skipper. That is one of the two we do each year. The other is usually in September. The crossover campout helps the new webelos into the troop, shows them how to use the gear, teaches basis skills, ax yard safety, fire safety, etc. It is a weekend long course kinda like the trailblazer T21 courses you see at summer camps. We try to maintain a high quality control level and testing which I'm not so sure summer camps do.

I also support having scouts repeat skills they learn. We always lash a flagpole and a gate. Not because we need them, but to practice lashings and also hold a flag ceremony. It's a troop culture thing. We value the flag ceremony and the skills we learn and try to practice these skills. Before we go on a hike we always verbally run thru the rules of a safe hike. If the guys cannot name all the points then each scout is given one rule to remember. When we take a break each scout says "his rule". By the end of the hike they've heard the rules said out loud a few times as a memory refresher. Same thing for safe swim & safey afloat. No caneo goes into the water until the scouts have said out loud the rules for a safe float. If you look for ways to review skills while you are having fun outdoors it's not that hard. I carry bag of small snickers bars in my backpack. Any scout that can secure a sprained ankle with a bandana or maybe splint a broken leg or tell me how to treat bee stings gets one. Any scout that can tie all 6 required knots in under 3 minutes gets a jolly rancher. Stuff like that. Tie all 6 knots blindfolded in under 2 minutes and I'll make you a turk's head to use as a slide.

FWIW our SM would probably re-test the scout in question but it would be his call. If the SM told the scout upfront that anything the other scout troop signed off on would count then thats his call to make. Not that we don't trust the other troop, but we don't award service hours unless approved in advance and I think this would be treated the same way. It would be the scout's job to get pre-approval from the SM if he wanted to get credit. With pre-approval given by the SM no problem.

We have a couple of campouts a year where the instructors and older scout volunteers teach the younger guys skills such as knots, lashing, totin' chit, finding directions day & night, orient a map, etc., etc. etc. There are ASM's that test after the scout feels he is ready. Some pass, some need a little extra work.

We have many youth who are competitive soccer, baseball, football players. They miss meetings during their sport season and these activity campouts are a way to catch back up on advancement while camping and having fun with their friends. Many of these guys come to our troop because we have the reputation (and mission I suppose) of working with families & boys that want to be in scouting but have other activities such as competitive sports they enjoy also whose schedules interfere with scouts. Some drop out to focus on sports, others stay with us. One of our 9th grade life scouts is captain of the middle school football team and also school president. He is not scared to wear his scout t-shirt to school and has recruited other kids to the troop. He misses meetings & campouts from August to early November but attends the other months. Hell probably be the next SPL during his off season. Without skills campouts to catch back up and leniency for missing meetings we might probably lose a guy like that which would be a shame.

Basically every campout we hold requires some skills work and we try to make time for testing, but these skills / advancement campouts are geared toward it where others may be geared more toward canoeing, backpacking etc. I don't see it as a bad thing to have campouts where learning skills & advancement skills are the primary objective and are taught and tested.

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EDIT: We have had scouts camp with another troop. Usually the troop that meets at the church across the street. One example we had three scouts who wanted to get the climbing merit badge. That troop has a guy who is an expert climber and takes that troop on an annual climbing campout where they earn the badge. Our guys went with them and earned the badge on that trip. We took one of their guys on a canoe trip who needed a float trip to finish the camping merit badge.

(This message has been edited by knot head)

They did the wrong thing you did the right thing.

You set a good example and acted honorably. Way to go!

As mentioned previously YP takes about 20 minutes and should be no big deal when given ample time to get it done. To get registered all they need to do is fill out an application.

It's a pretty low bar to get people registered & to pass YP to go on a campout.

Now if a dad ever showed up and had not done his stuff and we needed him as a driver I'm probably gonna let him go on the campout so he can drive the kids. But it's never happened probably because I remind them what I need and why I need it. Part of it is troop culture you develop over time. I take YP seriously and remind parents why it is important. I think they appreciate it and thus spend the 20 minutes online to see what the rules are. We also go over the rules every campout on the first night again anyway.

>>>So far as siblings - NO! We may have one family campout during the year if the scouts plan one but that is the only time that siblings are allowed.

I did citz in community with my son and others in his patrol at the same time. It was not that big a deal and he did the same work the others did.

Like most things "it depends on the situation" I guess.

I can't see ever being MBC on a solo basis with him on a badge.

We use charcoal primarily but tend to use more than the traditional instructions call for. We also have used a tripod to suspend a DO stack ovr the fire.

But we are certainly not experts at DO cooking so we just kind of wing it.

I never address parents on a campout.

I encourage anyone that wants to attend to attend. Im all for developing good scouts but Im also for developing parent & child memories. We had one canoe trip where the heavens opened and we had 2.5 inches of rain in about 3 hours one night. The campsite was on the bank of the river, hard & flat and you guessed it didnt have great run off. We all had to pack the wet muddy gear and canoe 11 miles the next day. The load the stuff and drive home 4 hours. Thats the kind of campout that becomes legendaryan event a troop, but also a boy & his dad reminisce about forever.

And if by chance a dad & son develop a love for backpacking or canoeing or camping and go together outside of scouts then all the better. Lots of the guys that go with us have never been camping and thus feel they dont have the skills to be an ASM or help in any way. Once the initial I dont know what to do is broken we sometimes wind up with a committee leader, Popcorn guy or and ASM. I think there is big benefits to having the adults on board and feeling like they are part of the program.

Interference is usually pretty minimal and easy to handle. Some of that may have to do with the new parent orientation we do when guys come into the troop.

EDIT: The troop requires an adult to register and get a certification for youth protection before they attand a campout. So far no complaints about that.(This message has been edited by knot head)

>>If an older scout from the VP wants to mentor a younger scout because that's important to him, then he does it. If they want to go off and pick out their own summer camp in Alaska, great. As soon as we jerk their chains and reel in their leashes, they will be gone in a heartbeat and I don't blame them one bit. Stosh << YEP.

I'm in a committee battle about this very thing right now. The adult position is "they are part of the troop and need to camp with the troop." Which ignores that we seldom get older guys to go on campouts (or to summer camp) currently. The older boy position is "we hate skills oriented campouts because they are boring". Since they currently avoid skills based campouts because they don't want to teach TF,2,1 skills all day they only attend high adventure campouts like canoe trips. I have suggested star & above campouts at the request of the boys but the committee is reluctant to "split the troop". We are already "split" in reality but I guess they don't want to see it.

Our troop won't let a non swimmer (adult or scout) attend a water activity. What they do on their own time is their business, but on a scout trip if you can't swim you can't sign up.

Why would anyone would go backcountry without a compass and map?

I'm all for brownies at COH's. Both the uniformed and edible kind.

I understand your point. Here is what we do.

We have each scout CPR certified as a troop tradition in year one. It costs $40 and the parents support it. Then we review for each MB that needs it except for the "dummy part" since we do not have a dummy. The scouts explain the procedure and watch a video on COR our trainer made for us.

So they get certified and then re-trained except for the dummy part for each MB that requires it.

30 or even 40 nights camped sounds good to me, but I would have it start when you join rather than when you make 1st class. But's that's just me. If they went to 40 nights 2 summer camp weeks could count.

Many of our guys get 20 nights in year 1 (including 6 at summer camp) so 30 total wouldn't be too hard. Most eagles are north of 70 (including summer camps) by the time they make eagle in our troop. We camp monthly so it's not too hard to get the nights to add up over a few years.

You can backpack on the cheap if you take your time & shop for gear. You may be limited to shorter trips but you can still get out. Even a 5 mile in and 5 mile out trip can be fun and can be done with smaller packs. But you can also blow big bucks too if so inclined. It is alot of fun though.

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Too bad backpacking is not an eagle required badge. I guess it would require the scouts to learn and use too many outdoor skills and scoutcraft. Better to require badges on topics they also cover in school.

Same as the above. We pair experience with lack thereof to get safe pairs in a canoe.

We let the patrol leader work out the tent assignments. Adults only get involved if the PL and then SPL can't get it worked out. If the PL & SPL agree to let them switch partners each night that is up to them.

Do any of you use a web hosting service for your troop website that caters to BSA troops?

We are looking into this and would like links to your host. It needs to be easy to use and not too costly.

Don't need a lot of features. A place to store forms for download and post announcements & stuff like that.

If you have been to the school of hard knocks on this topic and want to share your pain feel free to tell me what we should we be looking for!!

Would it be double counting to include participating in a service project as credit towards service hours and an activity?

 Can't speak for others but our troop would allow participation in an eagle service project to count toward both the 1 hour service requirement and the 5 activities requirement for 2nd class. I guess it's a bit of a double dip but still we would give credit for both.

Thanks guys. It always seemed pretty clear to me that all five could be campouts. Just wanted to make sure I didn't miss something.

Appreciate the feedback.

Friendly disagreement in our troop on the rank advancements below. My position is that if you go on five different campouts you have met the requirement for 2nd class 2a. Others in the troop take the position that there is a maximum of two campouts that can be counted and the other three activities must be non camping activities such as eagle service projects, a fieldtrip for a merit badge, etc.

When I read the requirement I don't see a limit on campouts as others do which specifies that two - and only two - campouts can be used to reach five activities for 2nd class 2a.

Am I reading this wrong?

Anyone care to take a side?

Anyone, anyone... Beuller?

2nd class 2a. Since joining, have participated in five separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), two of which included camping overnight.

1st class #3.  Since joining, have participated in ten separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), three of which included camping overnight.

At each meeting we do the pledge to the flag followed by the Scout Law, Oath, Motto, Slogan and the Outdoor Code.

We don't do a flag ceremony at each meeting but rather just place the flags up front as the boys are getting the room ready. I wish we would take the extra 60 seconds to do a good crisp flag ceremony.

On each campout we lash a flagpole and do a Saturday flag ceremony to raise & lower the flag. Sometimes these don't go so quite so well and I think it is just a lack of practice. If we did the commands weekly they would know them by heart. That's the main reason I wish we would do a ceremony at each meeting. That way everyone knows the commands and proper procedure.

(This message has been edited by knot head)

In addition to BOR's I ask questions as we drive home from each campout. What did you like about this one, what didn't you like? What steps can you take to change things? Have you mentioned this to your patrol leader or SPL? Basically get them thinking about what makes a fun campout so they will know what they want for the next year.

I can see some benefit from a short survey without names. We've never done a written survey since they usually hash out what they want to do for the next year's calendar first at the patrol level in patrol meetings then discussion and voting as a group during the planning meeting.

Scouting is not for everyone. The same could be said for soccer, football, piano, etc.

Provide a good program, camp regularly but don't repeat the same camping experience & location over & over, communicate with scouts and parents and work with the guys who are interested and show up.

Don't fret over the guys who would rather play baseball instead. To each his own.

You do need a patrol leader that shows up. If they miss too much you need to replace them.