Knot Head

I have only signed one badge for my son and it was for Pioneering which I taught to 12 boys over a weekend campout and a couple of meetings.

I've managed to avoid signing anything else to avoid the appearnace of anything improper. My son complains he has to earn each badge twice. Once for me and once for the MB counselor.

Our troop used to be real loosey goosey with badges, but over 3 years we have managed to change the culture where now we actually follow BSA policy for MBs. I hear stories about other troops earning badges super fast. That is just shortchanging the kids IMHO.(This message has been edited by knot head)

I am the activity chair and main all week leader at summer camp. I tell parents my goal are in the order...

be safe

have fun

learn skills, get MBs for advancement

seems to work for boys, parents, and me.

I guess I don't understand. We recently did a backpacking trip where the old guys went on their own and the young guys (1 and 2 year scouts) were followed by adults.

On order to go with the old group you had to have attended Philmont or done prior backpacking with the troop to qualify. There was no voting and no "exception". The old guys picked their route and met us at the campsite. They did 10 in and 5 out and the young guys did 5 in and 5 out. We all went the same route out on Sunday but the old group left camp later and caught up.

II can't understand why these two guys were even considered for the long route if they were not qualified.

The camp we attend gives us a computer print out.

We use the printout to fill out blue cards.

>>1) How do the instructors know the scout has the Scoutmaster's approval to work on a badge? Under the "blue card" system a scout had to present a signed "blue card" to the councilor before starting the badge. How does an instructor know the Scout has gotten approval from their Scoutmaster to start the badge without a "blue card" (which, in a way, serves as the "permission slip" to work on the badge)? A1 -> An adult leader has to register each scout for MB classes online weeks before camp starts. The registration process cannot be completeed without SM approval for MB's selected. In our troop the SM approves all classes a scout selects before they go into the online registration process.

2) With a partially completed badge, a Scout would get their "blue card" back at the end of the week with the completed requirements signed off by the councilor. Under the new computerized system the scout would get a printout of what they have left to complete. How does that work when continuing work with another councilor (or returning to camp the following year)? Does the Scoutmaster (who may not be a councilor for the badge) fill out and initial the requirements on a partially completed "blue card" for the scout to hold on to and take to another councilor?

-> Basically yes. The partial is completed and then the SM will help the scout find a MBC to complete the course. Many times with planning the scout can complete items before class, show evidence to the MBC at cummer camp and get the card totally signed off. An example is camping. We provide a letter from the SM stating the scout has met 9a and 9b (camped 20 nights, backpakced, canoe trip)and the MBC will sometimes code that as completed.(This message has been edited by knot head)

The thread has good suggesstions.

When I backpack I like:

Breakfast Oatmeal & instant grits.

Snacks - Power bars

Lunch - Flat bread and peanut butter. Two of my favorite things.

Dinner...

(you can get cubed chicked in an air vaccum bag)

my faviroes to choose from are

Mountain House Beef Stroganoff (sp?)

Jerky with dehdrated mashed potatoes.

mack & cheese + frozen bag of mixed veggies (boiled) + cubed chicken

cubed chicken + rice soup

cubed chicken + frozen bag of mixed veggies soup

That freezerbag cooking website is great but I have not tried many yet.(This message has been edited by knot head)

I'll try to answer...

>>In light of these last few posts, let me expound upon my earlier questions a little bit. [1] Who send sends out these emails? [2] And to whom are they send? [3] If it is about money (ex, camp fees), is it sent by the Treasurer, Scribe, Committee Chair or Scoutmaster? [4] If it is a reminder about a campout, does it originate with the SPL, Scoutmaster, Camping Coordinator (Troop Committee) or PLs? [5] Does every scout have email? [6] Are the adults included also?

We use yahoo groups:

1. Weekly emails with multiple topics such as * Money for Camporee is due Monday; * The COH is in 4 weeks; * Sportsman's warehouse has a good deal on sleeping bags; * Annual dues are due; etc.

2. Yahoo groups has a nice calendar that we use

3. You can post pdf files on yahoo such as permission slips; The MB schedule for summer camp; troop roster; etc.

We have a shutterfly password protected account where people load pictures from meetings, campouts, etc.

We use calling post (5 cents a call I think) for big reminders like money for summer camp is due Monday! We don't use calling post all that much.

Those are our 3 main tools.

(This message has been edited by knot head)

Congratulations on doing things the right way. Our troop has grown steadily and now has 50 on the roster. We did not set out to become a "mega troop" and are not sure what to do. The recruiting program that has evolved over the years is similar to yours with three weeblo/troop events to work on AOL etc. The boys plan the calendar and they want to camp each month so we camp each month and we get great turnout. I don't know if it is the calendar that attracts them or the recruiting events.

Anyway keep up the good work! Good things will happen and you'll get good guys.

When we (my son & I) joined a troop all menu planning & cooking was done at the troop level. It took a couple of months of suggesting it at the committee meetings (and readings from BSA literature) but we eventually had a campout where each patrol cooked by patrol. The "old guys" (star & up) cooked together as an ad hoc patrol, so we had 4 patrols. three "real" one "ad hoc". Now it is a given that each patrol plans their own menu, cooks and camps together. Worst skit at the Saturday night campout campfire has to do some chore like take down the tents of the best skit patrol.

On campouts we decided to have a lead patrol. The lead patrol is responsible for finding a location, reservation, collecting the money, making sure we have enough drivers, etc. using a checklist we prepared over time.

Elections, calendar planning and troop activity at meetings has always been up to the boys so that was not a big struggle, but we have been able to cede a little more control to the boys.

Annually at the planning meeting the boys discuss and vote to select what camping themes they want that year (canoeing, backpacking, scout Olympics, rock climbing, fishing, etc.) and then we select an adult sponsor. The activity chairman supervises the trip chairman who is an adult from the lead patrol. The trip chair works with the patrol leader of the "lead" patrol to select a weekend, identify potential campout locations and work the campout organization checklist. We try as much as we can to get the patrols to ride together in cars.

So I'd say take the great advice already received and try to implement. You have to make a conscious effort to set things up so patrols meet weekly, menu plan, cook, camp, meet & ride together. Dont throw them to the wolves. Start small by for example offering three menu items to choose from in the planning session. Over time as they gain experience you can take off the training wheels and let them plan the menu on their own. You also have to make an effort to get the boys to do things you could do on your own alot faster... like searching the internet for canoeing locations, calling for prices (you almost have to give them a script or be on the other line to prod them to ask the right questions), making reservations, etc.

I always try to think of myself as a coach. I cant play but I can coach and put them in a position to be successful based on their age, talent level & experience. If we are getting beat I can call timeout, bring them over, regroup and give specific instructions. If they are doing great I can let them call their own plays.

Hi - that was my comment above in italics so I thought I would explain a little more.

We started doing this as a response to the increase in the merit badge universities. The goal was to provide a more robust merit badge experience.

We as a troop have a real problem with MB's earned at camporees or most recently "scoutbase 2008" held in Tunica Mississippi. At this event scouts earned two merit badges in one day. One Day! Many MB's had only 2.5 hour classes. In my opinion this is pathetic. How can you earn the fishing merit badge in 2.5 hours? Summer camps are not alot better. This summer the classes where we went to camp were 1 hour for 4 days for most badges. Some classes such as first aid lasted 2 hours for 4 days.

Contrast this with an event over a weekend. We can hold a 3 hour class, break for lunch, go fo 4 hours, break for dinner followed by a campfire. Next day we can go for two more three hour sessions if we need them before heading for home. That is a pretty good hands on experience and the boys seem to like it.

The MB's on these campouts are usually the outdoor type and can be done in a weekend with a reasonable class size. Look at the Pioneering MB requirements for example. If you are a good instructor you can do this in one weekend. And that includes watching each boy actually tie all of the knots and do all of the splicing and complete the lashings. There are some things that need to be done before the campout, for example you need to know your knots and lashings before you come on the campout. Otherwise you slow the group down too much. We do a "test" before and you cannot sign up for the campout until you pass the knot and lashing test.

Anyway these have worked well for us, but we only do about 3 a year and rotate so they are covered every other year at most.

Any questions I'll try to respond.

Howbout a Castaway Camporee? Think Mr. Hanks or Mr. Zemeckis would come

We did a "Man versus Wild" campout.

No tents but they did get to bring tarps to make a shelter with. They brought clothes for one day, sleeping bag, etc.

They had to complete an orienteering course to earn their food for all three meals. We thought about cashing the food and making them locate it with maps but wound up not doing that.

no mathces, but all cooking over open fires. they were allowed flint or magnesium bars. One patrol built a bow with shoelaces and started a frcition fire. Great pictures and huge bragging rights.

We provided the water filter, they brought their water bottles.

It was a pretty good campout.

When and where do the Scouts in the Troop you serve get to use these skills?

Eamonn.

We try to create situations where skills are needed. We lash together a troop gate every campout where we hang our troop banner and awards. This requires the scouts to know and use lashings. We hold a knot tying contest at each campout - including a blindfolded competition. Current troop record is 6 required knots in 54.56 seconds blindfolded. Also got many good ideas from Bob White in a thread.

* Have a scout set up a short orienteering course each campout. Let scouts run it for prizes;

* set markers near plants, have scouts identify them;

* Scout jeapoardy to test first aid skills, safe hiking rules, etc. at your campfire or meeting;

Basically try to think of games for campouts and meetings that test skills in a fun way.

EDIT - we use the old fashioned dining fly because they have to be put up together (forces teamwork) and they require proper use of the taut line hitch and ground anchors. Yes they are more of a pain than the pop up tents you see at tailgate parties, but they reinforce a skill.

Advice - there is nothing like making scouts (even young ones) backpack 1 mile or more to a campsite to teach them how to pack efficiently. They also have to learn how to use a water filter and ration water use. Let a guy make two trips to haul all his gear a mile or so he'll pack better next time. He may get his buddies to help him carry it once, after that peer pressure resolves packing issues.

(This message has been edited by knot head)

""Advancement Mill" = what we call a Troop that holds more merit badge days than ours."

A troop that any "merit badge days" is an advancement mill.

---------------

Guilty.

We recently went on a campout and taught the fire safety merit badge. The troop has held wilderness survival, pioneering, canoeing, motorboating, orienteering, bird stufy and climbing campouts over the years where the boys camped and also earned a merit badge. The scouts pick a merit badge and we try to make the campout happen about 3 times a year.

We do graduate a lot of eagles. I think it is because we offer a lot of opportunities to the scouts but it may just be because we are an advancement mill.

When a boy is excited about scouts, is excited about advancing, attends most of the campouts & meetings, has scout spirit and can demonstrate skills I don't see a reason to hold them back. When a kid is a self starter I pat them on the back and encourage them to set goals and work hard for what they want.

If I had a scout that wanted to earn all of his merit badges I'd be working at helping to track down good counselors, not holding him back.

FWIW our troop has never had a 13 year old eagle. We have the 15-16 group that has been to summer camp 4 times and consistently show up and are active. Some but not all of these remain active in the troop after they eagle. The other subset are almost 18 years olds that are active for a few years and then go dark until they are 17 or so.

JMHO(This message has been edited by knot head)(This message has been edited by knot head)

Any input?

JMHO. To me, far more important is the spirit of the ceremony. The honor and respect shown for the flag when it is retired and the flag's importance as a symbol for the United States of America. It's what is in your heart and mind that matter more than your strict adherence to a 60 second rule. Again... JMO.

If a scout wants me to deny their scout spirt advancement then all they need do is act up at a flag retirement ceremony, or during the pledge or scout oath or law.

We use yahoo groups for the calendar and weekly informational mass emails. We email once each week with a list of important dates for upcoming events as well as other important news. Each calendar entry has a specific contact person and their phone # if more information is needed. People are warned NOT to hit reply toa Yahoo email because then everyone gets another email with their reply. People still mess up and hit reply but not often.

The Yahoo groups "files" section has a flyer for each campout ith all the information. If they have a question they call the trip sponsor.

For really important announcements we use email plus a calling post phone call with a blurb and an alert to check email. Yahoo groups is free and calling post costs money so we limit our calling post use.

Troop scouts and adults know that we use the Yahoo groups to email and for the calendar. All mass emails are archived at Yahoo groups. We provide the information and stress to all new members that this is how we communicate. If they are not informed it's their fault for not tapping into the system. If they are not getting a weekly informational email they are not in the yahoo group and need to contact the troops' yahoo groups moderator.

We still make announcements at meetings and hand out flyers but the Yahoo gropus and mass weekly email is how we make information readily available. Those that want to seek it out can easily find it.(This message has been edited by knot head)

I like this one which is 3 meters x 4 meters for $40.

http://www.mosquitohammock.com/rainfly3x4.html

We are almost always near trees but you can rig it between 8 foot 2x2 poles that are staked out properly if you have no trees nearby.(This message has been edited by knot head)

We ride as patrols as much as possible.

We have an "action packer" which is basically a heavy duty rubbermaid type box for each patrol that contains a coleman stove along with pots skillets and utensils. Then each patrol also gets their own propane. And then we have troop gear in the trailer. Plus the stuff people bring in their trucks.

The SM and some of us are trying to change the culture from 100% truck camping with a trailer + more gear that won't fit into a trailer to a mix including "haul your own gear" campouts so scouts can backpack our gear into backcountry and teach scouts to plan ahead and be self sufficient.

The boys have been more willing that the parents to go this route. Some folks just won't camp without massive amounts of gear per person.

When you have to carry it all in yourself you learn to figure out what you really need and to identify items that can serve a dual purpose.(This message has been edited by knot head)

Our "star to eagle" guy is a former SM who is familiar with the paperwork and sits on Eagle boards for scouts of other troops.

He is available to meet with our Life scouts and coaches them to develop a *written* timetable to finish up the MB's they need and develop a project. He basically helps them write out a plan that is realistic to accomplish certain objectives by specific dates. When they fall behind he counsels them on the importance of setting goals and then putting in the work to achieve them.

>>First, the Scouts' traditional uniform, with pressed pants and insignia, might be off-putting to immigrants from countries where dictatorships thrive.

>>>>> Also as FScouter points out failing to file a Tour Permit will not in itself void your liability protection, but not doing the things that are on the permit potentially could.

Thanks for the replies. I bought a new backpacker ultralight off ebay for a little less than 1/2 price and got a great nights sleep on a test in the backyard. Far superior to any pad plus tent I've ever used, so I guess I'm a hammock guy now. My back never hurt in a pad + tent, I just tossed and turned alot. I've read a lot about the different cold weather solutions and will get to begin try these out on a September trip to the Ozarks. My initial cold plan is to try the inexpensive route with a CCF pad and space blanket. I have pitched it as a bivy in the backyard with hiking poles and crawled into it and that seemed to be an okay "no trees" or "wicked cold go to ground" solution. I've not slept in it as a bivy tent on the ground setup yet but I'll probably try that soon in another backyard test. I think setting a line to pull the bug net off my face will be something I need to sleep well. The Speer pad extender "SPE" seems like a good way to get some warmth at low cost.

The hammock I got on ebay came with the standard tarp and it is a little small, so I'm looking at a MacCat tarp which seems like a good configuation since you can basically pitch it several different ways including closing both ends to completely enclose the hammock. The approx 8x10 gives you a nice large area to cook and lounge under. I think I'll be pitching the tarp with a seperate ridge line to avoid some of the sag.

Someone said Philmont won't allow these since you can't hang anything off trees except food bags. Can't figure out why Philmont would ban hammocks since the national Leave No Trace folks are fans of hammock camping since they do less damage than tents and groundcloths.

>> For example, he said, the group would no longer produce, print, bundle and mail Scout materials to its offices around the nation. Instead, the information would be available online.

The troop my son is in has a nice list of urban myths I'm trying to dismantle one by one thanks in part to tips from this board. Some of the myths are in direct conflict with BSA policy. Slowly but surely we are getting there. Seems like each time we go camping I get to slay another one.