Knot Head

I like the orienteering alot more than the geo-caching also. Not sure why but I like the old time stuff that is pretty much obsolete like knots, orienteering, cooking over a wood fire. Using bungees, gps and colemans are okay, but I guess I like that old school stuff. Hey - maybe there's a theme for a campout in there somewhere ... "old school camping".

I do like the idea of the scouts setting up the course, or at least setting it up with some guidance. I think I'll do that next year.

I'd like to mention google earth again. That is a really nice tool to use to prepare the map for your guys but you'll need to be in a metro area to get the resolution you need. I'm not 100% old school I guess!!!(This message has been edited by KNOT HEAD)

Painting and plumbing are naturals for summer camp. The camp gets free workers for maintenance and the boys learn something they can use the rest of their life when painting & plumbing their homes.

I wish our camp offered more outdoor scout MB's like hiking, backpacking, orienteering. I guess these are just too time intensive and would basically be the only badge earned that year with the exception of orienteering (and that would need to be a 2 hour class to be done right).

Bugs never bothered me. Snakes on the other hand...

IF you are asking about merit badge requirements, the answer is "it depends". Camping specifies camping 20 nights at a "scout activity or event". The cycling MB does not specify the 50 miler must be at a scout event. Communications for example, the 5 minute speech must be "to a group" which I take to mean school, patrol, church sunday school class, etc.

Cycling MB

9. After fulfilling requirement 8, lay out on a road map a 50-mile trip. Stay away from main highways. Using your map, make this ride in eight hours.

Camping

9a. Camp a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights. Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. The 20 days and 20 nights ** must be at a designated Scouting activity or event**.

Communications

3. Write a five-minute speech. Give it at a meeting of a group.

I think it is a good policy to require a written note from a teacher or adult supervisor (preferably not the scout's parent) to allow outside scout activities to count.

We laid out a course using google earth. We printed the maps for the scouts. While not a true "topo map" the map did show lakes, trees, roads, buildings etc. like a topo. There were no mountains, just gentle hills. We actually had a real USGA topo map for the area but it was obsolete, the google map was better. The google earth map had the course points identified as A, B, C, etc. The scout had to plot his course from point to point. The map was used by the scouts to calculate the bearing for each leg and also estimate the distance. This was a great learning experience since the guys had to know how to orient a map and then determine "if I need to get from this lakeshore to that path intersection over there for leg #4 of the course my bearing is 175 for 1500 yards. I can use that tree along the way as a landmark to get there." That to me is real orienteering, using a map and compass together.

We explained use of orienteering concepts to the guys like attack points, collecting feature, aiming off, reading ahead and handrails on a "dummy map" and they actually used them to finish the course on the "real map".

Prior to this the troop had done a one mile 12 point compass course like you described above "go 500 feet bearing 125, go 1000 feet bearing 260, etc." A a real orienteering course is better. If you are ever lost in the woods and only have a map & compass then skill on a "compass course" won't help much. If you can't read a map, how are you going to know what bearing to take? Finishing a compass course shows you can use a compass. Finishing a real orienteering course shows you can orient a map, read a map, find the right bearing, estimate distance and then plot your own course to get from point A to point B.

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We salute when wearing our Class "A" and place hand over heart while in "Class B".

Glad I could clear this up for everybody. I guess that's why my troop pays me the big bucks. ;-)

I typically try to send a quick (short) email daily with a couple of pictures saying all is well. Maybe 2-3 sentences. I stress that I don't want to correspond by email from camp unless it is an emergency.

Our camp is 3+ hours away so we don't ever get any parent visitors.

I tell them I'll try to let you all know that all is well but don't email me back a list of questions.

My gosh what a sad story.

We called the outfitter to get the flow rate & river level. I guess the best advice is know your scouts and pick the right river. There are many rivers in TN and ARK I would never take new scouts on. I need to see a guy on the river to get a feel for him. The front of the canoe needs to provide power. Some new guys barely get the blade wet. To run certain rivers I'd want to handpick 13 yr old scouts that hold both the swimming and canoeing MB and who I've run a river with before hand. And I may even delegate them to the front of the canoe with an adult in the rear of each canoe I knew could handle it.

There are rivers that are suitable for 11 year olds with zero experience. Those rivers probably bore a 15 year old. To make it interesting tell those guys that if they can drive the canoe (in the rear) for all 20 miles without tipping, touching a tree or rock and making zero errors reading the water on the easy river then maybe they are ready for the front of a canoe in a faster river. Guys often want to rush into things they are not ready for. "It's a canoe" they say, "how hard can it be"?

This is a really sad story, and it scares me... alot. Even slow rivers can have a chute or two with a narrow opening forcing fast water and a horizontal tree nearby that can pin a young guy from a flipped canoe underwater.

This is a very sad story. I take safe swim and safety alfoat very seriously and this just reinforces my resolve. I can't imagine how sad the parents, friends and people in that troop must be over this incident.

Next year when the scouts complain that the river we canoe on is too slow and boring this story will come to mind. For an inexperienced and young canoers moving water, especially swift moving water is dangerous.

This scout was on a swim team and was wearing a PFD according to the article, yet the current took him under.

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When in college my fraternity made a killing selling cotton candy & lemonaide at the county fair. Cheap raw materials and seems like everyone wants one or the other or both at a fair. We rented the cotton candy machine. We had to have a health permit and fair permit but those were pretty easy hurdles. If not a county fair perhaps an area flea market or 4th of July parade or something.

The scouts could do the work and the adults collect the profits.

>> In addition to the usual scout popcorn and Christmas wreath sales, our big fundraiser is an annual summer garage/yard sale. Just completed one this past weekend. We raise on average about $5,000 per year on this one weekend event. Lots of work gathering/storing/pricing items throughout the rest of the year, but quite profitable for the troop.

We use the trailer for most campouts. It holds each scouts gear plus the cooking gear, dutch ovens & food ice chests for each patrol. An expedition can pull the trailer and still cary 8 people. With no trailer the Expedition can only fit 5 plus gear. With all the gear in the trailer the other vehicles can be smaller 5 passenger cars which get better gas mileage than several SUV's with 5 people each. Basically it is a also a LOT more convenient to store the stuff in the trailer between campouts. It isn't very fancy inside.

We don't use tables or honda generators (yes, I've seen troops with those) so a small trailer that doubles as a storage locker between campouts works for us.(This message has been edited by knot head)(This message has been edited by knot head)

Not much to add to what others have said... but... ugh...

would you mind telling me what your fundraising activities are.

Whatever they are they appear to be working quite well.

Thanks for the replies. This will be a topic at the next committee meeting. Folks who have just swallowed the cost of gas in the past are now looking at pretty big numbers for summer camp and long mileage high adventure stuff. It's not really fair to stick that cost on the ones who are willing to voluteer.

Seems like it would be fair to estimate the gas cost based on the number of vehicles we will be taking and their MPG and then add a charge to the scout camping fee. Then just have folks leave with and empty tank and turn in receipts.

What used to be not too much money for gas has turned into pretty big numbers for summer camp. This next year I expect the campouts will be very close to home with the traditional 2 long adventure trips plus summer camp.

Just wondering what other troops policies are regarding reimbursement for gas costs for drivers on campouts. This topic has come up recently in our troop which historically has offered no reimbursement for gas.

Do you reimburse? Do you require reciepts or just estimate the cost based on round trip miles and drivers estimate of their gas mileage? Do you just encourage folks to deduct mileage on their tax return?

Looking for some ideas. If you have a policy I'd love to hear it.(This message has been edited by knot head)

How to make a coffee can (or big tomato can or whatever) stove. The plans are basically the same regardless of the size can you want to use. When the can burns out, get a new can. The scouts can easily make these themselves with a little direction and safety supervision for the use of the electic drill. Nothing like cooking your meal over a stove you built.

http://www.outdoors-magazine.com/spip.php?page=article&id_article=155

Kia Kim is in Hardy Arkansas so it's not too far to drive from northern from Texas. They have two camps. One with a mess hall and one where you cook your own food.

You may view it as a MB factory since they do offer a large number of MBs. All are taught by college kids or adults.

We don't find we have much free time at Kia Kima. Every night there is stuff to do.

Older guys usually do Mountain Man or Cope while younger guys do MB. We try to encourage them to do "summer camp" MBs like Canoeing, Archery, Swimming, Sailing, Rowing, Env. Science. Stuff that is just more easily and efficiently done at summer camp.

http://www.kiakima.com/home.shtml

Besides MB's

Trailblazer Program (TF to 1st Class skills). Take as a class or go to the open sessions at night.

COPR

Ozark Ultimate Trek

Mountain Man

Ozark Climbing School

Mountain Boarding

Twilight Troop Canoe Trips - after MB classes are over

NYLT

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Good list Bob.

We ramped up the knot tieing a bit and see who can do the 6 required knots blindfolded the fastest. The scout will pick a partner and the partner hands then the ropes one by one to tie on the wood bar. 59.55 seconds is the current troop record. The patrols really get into this. Try it yourself.

One campout we seeded a tournament bracket and held a knot tournament. The guys that made the final four were so proud. It was a good time!

Scout Jeopardy is also fun.

We like to do a short compass course with 100 yards or so between spots. One time there was a question at each marker. 10 second penalty if you got the wrong answer. We should do that again.

"Obstacle course". Station 1 each team member has to tie a knot. Station two each answers a first aid question. Station 3 each orients a map or gives a bearing. etc etc etc. Fastest thru the course wins. Time penalty for no performance.

As a variation have 6 guys on the team and 6 stations. Whoever ties the knot at station one remains there. Five guys move on to station 2. The team has to quickly decide who should perform the skill at each station and thus get left behind. If a guy gets to station 6 and has no clue one has to backtrack & send a guy left behind up to the front, which of course is a kind of time penalty. If you need a bowline at station 6 and the only guys that can tie one is at station 2 your team is in trouble. Make teams with various ranks on each team so the new patrol does not always lose.

We always lash a flagpole. Easy to do. Need to get some other gadets going for the other types of lashes. Gate is a good idea. Elevator huh? Cool!(This message has been edited by knot head)

I've been asked stuff like can the boys come early to a weekly meeting and cook dinner in the parking lot over a coleman stove to get the 2nd class cooking signed off.

I've always said no, if it says "on a campout" that means they have to be camping to get a signature. If you want to play soccer that's fine, but if you ain't camping it ain't gettin' signed.

Ohio, others,

So do you offer two different campouts per month segregated by age group?

One campout for the younger guys that is skill oriented or focuses on earning a merit badge like orienteering or fire safety for example?

Alternate campout for older guys perhaps that is canoeing, backpacking, whitewater?

Just wondering what you guys do in practice. Of course you need enough volunteers to do two campouts per month and that is a whole other story.

Our troop has the same issues with older guys losing interest. It is a challenge to have a monthly campout that appeals to the boy working on tenderfoot and also to a 15 year old Star. (This message has been edited by knot head)(This message has been edited by knot head)

Is there a written BSA policy on what should be in the Troop first aid kit or whether you are required to have a Troop kit? We have a giant troop kit but I bring my own stuff in a zip lock.

One medic I talked to at summer camp last year said he makes each boy bring his own first aid kit camping & hiking. When they come to him needing a band aid or something he tells them "get one from your kit" or if need be asks them "where is your kit?" I adopted that approach even though the troop has a first aid kit. I won't treat the typical camping injuries like blisters, scrapes & minor burns, I make them go find a scout that has the first aid MB and supervise them to treat the injury for the burned finger or sunburn or tick or scratch or whatever. If someone ever gets really hurt like a broken bone of course I'd treat them.

Great thread! I'm not aware of our Troop ever participating in one of these. Not sure of the district offers one or not.

Is there a web site that has word or PDF files of already written out scenarios & answer keys like Calico posted above so we don't have to start from scratch & reinvent the wheel?

Calico, could you email your Q&A keys to me?

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Thanks everyone for the great replies.

Thanks for the reply.

DONE -> Youth Protection

DONE -> Fast Start ... use the e-learning center at My Scouting

DONE -> New Leader Essentials training

nope -> Pack Committee specific training

then...

DONE - > Safe Swim Defense (also did Safety Afloat)

Nope acronym???-> BALOO

Thanks and post more if they occur to you. Good idea to hook up with the district guy for lunch or dinner. He probably has a plan and perhaps can hook me up with a mentor from another local troop.(This message has been edited by knot head)

Found these earlier... maybe they will be of benefit to others.

http://www.goddardkansas.org/troop776/Troop%20776%20Adult%20Positions.pdf'>http://www.goddardkansas.org/troop776/Troop%20776%20Adult%20Positions.pdf

http://www.troop477.com/html/Committee%20Bylaws.htm

http://t499.org/trooppositions.htm

http://www.goddardkansas.org/troop776/Troop%20776%20Adult%20Positions.pdf

http://laredolaw.net/troop90/Text%20Page/AdultLeaderDuties.htm

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