Knot Head

No reason not to do this. We do a Philmont type trek on the Appalachian Trail every year that includes a whitewater trip on the Ocoee river since it is within easy driving distance. We employ the same age, ability & shakedown rules as for Philmont trips. Not sure what your ASM's problem is.

Remove:

Citizenship in the World (I'm a USA citizen, not a citizen of the world. Sorry BSA)

Environmental Science (they get plenty of this stuff in school.)

Personal Fitness (Again - Health & PE cover this in school. This is scouts, not an athletic team.)

Add:

Orienteering (core scout skill)

Nature (better than E Science)

Cooking (as in cooking on a campout and backpacking trip. goes with camping and core scout skills.)

Canoeing (because I like canoeing! ;-) )

Backpacking (core scout skill)

Pioneering would be a great add also!

JMO(This message has been edited by knot head)

Bob and all,

Could we start a list of other urban myths and troop traditions and expand on the quiz? I could use this at new Parent night after crossover. I'm sure we could come up with a good list of myths and legends.

T/F: The reason you must wear your class A to and from a trip is that BSA insurance is not in effect unless you are wearing your uniform.

T/F: It is acceptable to retest a scout during a BOR for any requirements up to and including the rank he is before the BOR for. In other words you can make a scout demonstrate or recite items from TF to FC if he is up for Star.

T/F: It is okay to finish all the work on a MB with an ASM, have the ASM complete the blue card and then approach tthe SM for his signature on the blue card.

T/F: The MB counselor cannot accept any activities performed or attended before the actual date the blue card was signed by the SM.

T/F: If a requirement that has already been signed off in a scout's book it can be erased should he fails to redemonstrate that skill, or adequately recite from memory a list such as rules for safe hiking, to a registered adult at a meeting or campout.

T/F: A scount cannot earn a merit badge unless every single scout in the troop is offered the same badge during the same timeframe.

T/F: Activities which are done outside of a troop or patrol sponsored event can never count towards a merit badge.

(This message has been edited by knot head)

>>>>>>We have a lot of people leading a program that they have not taken the time to learn.

If you are on the committee and the scouts that come before the board are lacking the basic skills of scouting, then you need to be having a serious talk with the Scoutmaster about how the skills are taught and practiced, and who is doing the testing and signing the books. This is a program problem not just an advancement problem and the SM is respponsible for BOTH!

Sure would be nice if BSA would just sell a CD Rom with all the badges on it and the Troop could just print and bind what they needed. They apparently already have it in digital format so a CD set wouldn't be too hard to do.

We needed a bunch of Env. Science books for summercamp and the scout shop only had one copy. They told us to just buy the one book make copies since they would not get another shipment in time. CD's would be so much more efficient and avoid problems like this. JMO.(This message has been edited by knot head)

I'm anxious for the answers (I hope you'll give us references for the answers) so I can use this in my troop to hopefully convince some folks they could benefit from some leader training. ;-)

It is hard to imagine how a guy can earn 21 merit badges and hold POR's yet not be active for. Maybe not active recently, but the requirements seem to have been met.

>> Regarding dead animals, the dogs seem to especially savor dead, really decayed fish over other animals. Anyone else notice this? Maybe they can better sneak up on bears or backpackers when they are so disguised?

If the scouts are going to the ASM's house for the conference, how do you avoid 1 on 1 situations? JUst wondering, do they have to bring a buddy or a parent?

I havent done an audit since the 80s when I was in public accounting but off the top of my head Id look for:

Receipts for reimbursement. When our troop goes on a campout you have to submit a receipt for food for example. Make sure expenses (checks cut) have receipts.

Internal controls. Is the same guy that is writing checks also approving the checks (i.e. checking receipts) and balancing the checkbook? IF the same guy is doing the shopping, writing the checks and balancing the checkbook it would be pretty easy to pad the expenses. This is where the easy fraud would be. If the guy cuts himself a check for $200 for summer camp supplies and says it was for trash bags, soap, rope & odds and ends stuff but there is no receipt thats a red flag. After you get a feel for this you can design audit procedures to look at areas where the internal controls are weak.

Contracts. If the troop bought a trailer for $2,000 did they shop around or buy one from the SMs brother in law? If they have contracts for anything such as a storage unit was it an arms length transaction? When they go canoeing do they pay thru the nose to rent canoes from the SMs best friend?

Inventory. I would try to do an inventory of troop gear. If the checkbook has outgoing checks that supposedly were for 3 action packers with cook sets, stoves, ovens and the like ask to see the items that were purchased to make sure they actually exist. If there are checks to buy a lot of gear there should be a lot of gear.

Fundraisers. If they held a pancake breakfast, who took the cash at the door and was it done in the presence of two unrelated people?

A lot of this will depend on what you have to work with. If the troop has a set of books with assets, accounts payable etc. it will be easier than if they just have a checkbook. I doubt you would have been asked to do this unless there was a complaint or a suspicion. Find out what the catalyst was and go from there. Good luck!

EDIT - I would not attempt this alone. I would get one or two other CPA's involved. With that the folks in charge would be better off trying to get some local firm to do this during the off season in exchange for a really really nice plaque to hang in the firm's lobby. ;-)(This message has been edited by knot head)

I have seen guys on the trail in backcountry with these and can't stop thinking about them. I'm even toying with a hammock campout where we rigged hammocks made of Wal Mart bed sheets with tarps over the top.

Just wondering if any troops out there use these to cut down on the weight in the backpack. I've never slept in one but did get into one when on the trail and it felt really good. The owner said he got a larger tarp than the standard (10x12 IIRC) and he's never been wet even in a gully washer. He also can rig the tarp to cook under the tarp when it is raining. Says he sleeps like a rock at night. He uses it down to about 20 degrees with an under quilt.

This whole hammock thing keeps coming back to me. I'd like to try it but am wondering if any of you have experience. Pros and Cons?

Here is an example below if you don't know quite what I'm talking about. If the link will not work just google "My new Hennessy Hammock" on You Tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYJqswqYl50&feature=related

(This message has been edited by knot head)

Good advice above. I would add you should be careful not to spill food or toothpaste, etc. on your clothes. It is easy for a scout to mindlessly wipe his hands on his shirt, so be diligent. Also watch for spills with a bowl of food in your lap so that it does not get on the shorts. The bear won't care that it's just a little food on your clothes. Around here it is black bear on the AT, in the Smokies, etc. Although they don't have the reputation of the grizz, I take bear safety serious. Be safe, have fun, learn scoutcraft.

Camping far away from bears is different than backpacking on the AT. Still on all campouts we have a strict "no food in the tents" policy in an effort keep other critters away and we practice hanging food bags to teach the proper way to do it. We don't hang the igloo coolers on a car campout, they go in the trailer or a truck. ;-). No one wants a skunk rummaging around near his tent.

(This message has been edited by knot head)

Good thread with good info. Thanks to all.

I don't think there is a Life scout in our troop that does not already have cooking just from showing up. Well, it takes a little more than just showing up... but it's an easy badge for an active camper to get. If a scout attends 50% of the monthly campouts we offer over three years he's done most of the badge anyway since the scouts do all their own cooking. They just need to work with the counselor to complete the academinc (e.g. req. 1,2,8) and planning portions of the MB requirement. We usually have cooking as a campout theme once a year anyway where we cover the first aid, menu planning, food pyramid etc. The rest of the stuff is just a matter of organization to make sure each guy gets a turn at bat to plan & cook for three on a campout and make sure mom let's him cook for a day at home. I wish they would drop the "cook at home" requirement and limit this to camp cooking but whatever. The scouts view this as an easy badge to pick up, which it is.

The first campout after crossover we let older scouts do #4 and cook for two new scouts. They get to know each other and the older scout shows them how to cook over a coleman camp stove at breakfast, an open fire or charcoal fire for lunch and a homemade ultralight stove made from an aluminum can at dinner.

It's really no big deal to get cooking over a period of time with a little bit of organization.

The guys love the campout where we make and use the ultalight aluminum bottle stoves. I use my ultralight all the time backpacking.

one ultralight stove (I currently use this one)

another ultalight stove

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY_LKCFlG6k&feature=related

(This message has been edited by knot head)

Kudu,

Thanks for the link!

A buddy of mine has a son in a troop across town where a scout was sent home from summer camp a few years back for repeatedly throwing his knife at a canvas tent while another scout was inside. He also stuck and ripped holes in the tent with his knife. The scout was caught & stopped, knife taken, sent home immediately. I tell our scouts this story before every summer camp and stress we will send them home if they do something to deserve it.

evmori's list is a pretty good one.

When the unit suffers from the actions of a Scout.

When a Scout blows off all his merit badge classs.

Theft.

>> The program is there for the FUN and development of the youth.

>>> What shocked me about the experience is my First Class Scout parents thanking me. They obviously were not worried about their scouts, but got to vicariously enjoy some of what the scouts were doing. Not to mention feel proud of their offspring.

We are looking at doing the AT for a week next year in our off year from Philmont. Being within 400 miles of the start point of the AT is just too hard to pass up. I'd love to get up to N Tier also since I love to canoe.

We do a practice troop mobilization using a phone message system (calling post) and email each year. The troop members report to the local firehouse nearest our meeting place and the fire chief signs off that the scout showed up. The firemen like knowing they can round up some help in a hurry but lucky for us we have never been used in a real mobilization. We let the E prep guys count this as a troop mobilization. I suppose you could do this as a patrol also.

20 nights is a very low hurdle over the course of a few years. We have kids who get 20+ nights each year including summer camp. All of our regular monthly campouts are two night deals. 9 campouts x 2 nights plus a week of summer camp and in the next 12 months a guy could get 24 nights (18+6) . We don't camp in July (vacations & heat), December is reserved for Winter camp and June is Summer camp.

Thanks for the idea of placing the ground cloth inside the tent. ;-)

Horizon,

Great idea and I plan to adopt it. Many scouts bring a bookbag with handbook, pencil, paper, rope, etc. to meetings but it never occured to me to make a luggage tag with the 10 essentials. Great idea and thanks for posting.

I think I will make another luggage tag to go with this that has rules for safe hike, safe swim, safety afloat etc. Checklists are a good thing.

I think this is another myth which I've heard at our troop presented as "you have to wear scout shirts or plain shirts at summer camp, camporee, etc." This year the leaders simply said we ask that scouts only wear scout shirts or plain t-shirts at camp. We stressed wearing our class B to MB class because we think it just looks good. It also helps us spot our guys at a distance. We set up a wash station each night next to the latrine where scouts could wash their t shirt and hang it on the clothesline. Some scouts also bought a pack of white t shirts to wear around camp or under the class A's, (but we didn't throw them away after one wearing). We do allow non scout shorts (khaki or blue jean) with class B at summer camp because not everyone can afford a bunch of scout shorts. That's the reality of our troop.

The dress code is not set forth anywhere in the summer camp leaders guide nor anyplace else I can find. It is a good idea though, so I guess you could say our troop has adopted it as a "recommended dress code".

>>With a week of wilderness training, a Scout could earn Orienteering, Hiking, Camping, and Backpacking and maybe even Wilderness Survival. Now that would be a week of serious Scoutworthy merit badges.