jtswestark

Not to one-up you, Skipper, but our entire dining hall does that for every meal of every day. 400-500 Scouts and Scouters silently entering a dining hall with folded arms to stand behind their seats and sing the meal prayer in unison all before anyone sits. Now that's impressive.

We also have a knot of the meal (published prior in commissioner notes and leader guide): each scout needs to tie one of the basic knots. While the unit is waiting to enter the hall staff members mingle with the Scouts to check their knots. If there's a Scout that can't do it correctly the staff member either takes a minute to show him or calls on his PL to instruct. As the week goes the knots get more difficult. Good reinforcement of the knots for older guys and helps younger guys learn for rank and merit badges.

They paid for camp, didn't pay to take Lifeguard. No different than signing up for a merit badge they didn't bring the pre-reqs for. Check into how much it costs to take Red Cross or YMCA lifeguard and consider it time well spent. Except for some real early growers/strong swimmers, most 14 (even many 15) year olds are going to struggle with Lifeguard anyways. If they don't go on to take Lifeguard when they are 15 then they apparently didn't want it that bad afterall. Which I question to begin with by not looking at the requirements or at least not asking about it if they did? I'm not laying blame on the leaders at all, but a great lesson for the boys: "See what happens when you don't read the requirements before starting something?" "Will you read the Eagle project information as well as you did this?" "Do you read the information on classes at school before you sign up?" ... life lessons!

All that said, a small shame on the instructor for not confirming it at the beginning; it is a very time consuming course.

>>Or, do we kneed to know every detail about the project, including the who, what, when, where, and how of the picnic tables with full design and materials specs, labor forecasting, punch lists, and OSHA heatlth and safety requirements. Is this documentation really necessary for a life scout to "plan, develop, and give leadership"?

Keep you eyes open on ebay, craig's list, etc... there's often some older bugles that pop up for under $25. Then you don't have to worry too much about a valuable one getting banged around, dinged up, or even lost. Let the bugler be responsible for it no different than any other position would be.

>> attending several poorly planned boy led COH we (my husband and I) have broached this subject with two different troops and have been met with resistance.

What a real shame. We flocked to him like a rockstar at the '81 jambo.

Oh yes, there WILL be lots of whooping and hollering when an inadvertent squawk or screech slips out during reveille. Kid has to be able to laugh at himself!

There's great benefit to defining "how we do things here". Mainly to the (sanity of) Scoutmaster and CC for consistency and thoroughness. There will always be that one situation that a parent tries to push the boundry and without a strong backbone from somebody stopping them, they get what they want. It gets tiresome being that backbone. You get worn down when a new parent shows up every couple years and decides "you're doing it wrong". So you put your thoughts down in a bylaw type form and then you can throw that at the troublesome parent: "this is how we do it here." Then they become the best country lawyer and find loopholes in it to their advantage... then it's decided they need updated... and so on and so on.

It does help define the commitee's roles and keeps all on the same page. But it can also become a weapon, a noose that is used against the leadership. That's why I hate the word 'bylaw' and much much prefer the word 'guidebook'. May be semantics, but the SM and CC MUST have ultimate authority to give and take on those guidelines and do what is in the best interest of the boy(s) effected by it and the Troop. If a unit can't accept the use of that judgement on a consistent basis, then somebody is in the wrong position.

There is no reason the family member cant help the kid prepare for the merit badge; but Id rather not have the boy go to them for the sign off. I prefer keeping family off the signature lines. I know it wouldnt be done by anyone on this forum, but Ive seen some very liberal methods of passing requirements done by parents and family. It happens.

I never signed off on anything for my son, not even a SM conference. While I may have missed out having the talks with him that I had with dozens of other boys, I still had plenty of SM conferences with him throughout his life (and still do as an adult!). He didnt miss out on anything with me, in fact he got exactly what I want all boys to get time with other quality adults that could be positive influences in his life. He didnt get shorted in the least by going to someone else.

Like anything else make it fun and the guys fight over it! We rotate boys that play in the band. We had a troop bugle, but some found others on their own to use. One made up a nice notebook with sheet music with different calls in it, slipping in some Pink Floyd or Beatles every now and then. They enjoy training each other and the different calls to others while showing off their skills. Reveille and taps at every weekend campout and summer camp is really cool (although one wiseguy bugler was threatened with lifetime KP duty when reveillie came a little too early one morning). None really wanted to take bugling at summer camp for some reason though. Only the musically inclined boys seem to be interested, but you never know who may take an interest. They never wanted to really do it for the POR anyways, so that was a moot point to any of them (no self respecting kid was going to put Bugler on his adv records). The frustrating part for me was when theyd forget their bugle; so the even if the ASPLs reminders when unheeded he usually makes sure the troops bugle is there as a back up.

Bylaws are a fun topic! Keep in mind that Troop bylaws cannot supersede BSA Advancement Policies and Procedures; which I bet will eliminate much of those 58 pages

Put your Troop sticker on the cover of BSAs Troop Committee Guidebook. Buy a few copies of Roberts Rules and have them in arms reach distance at any committee meeting.

Google troop committee guidelines and youll find all sorts of ones out there.

I was there too with a SM wanting to hang on for the glory, but it doesn't work. You need to take over or not do it. There will always be the undermining that "you aren't really the Scoutmaster" or "that's not how Mr. Scoutmaster does it..." .

Council and District staff will keep contacting the SM and you'll be out of the loop as to things you need to know about. I wouldn't do it that way if I could do it again.

>>Who should this be disscused with? The Committee Chair(past SM), current SM, past SM who is on Committee, one other Committee member, Other parents in the group, COR(Not sure if this is also the current CC since nobody has mentioned, I plan to ask who it is)?

Are you sure that was the only reason it was denied?

Did they appeal it up to a higher authority?

If so, that's a deal killer for many scouting events. I'd be raising some serious waves over that denial.

Good to hear a new advisor is on his way; you all hosted a nice conclave a couple years ago.

Don't forget the OA Tahawk; I've seen great things happen there too, especially from boys from weak units.

Many reasons listed here reflect why it is a bad idea. If you haven't seen it go bad, then you haven't been around long enough.

Those that are doing it may think it's going fine, and maybe in most areas it actually is. But I'd wager my Good Turn Coin there's areas that could be done more effectively with seperate families. There's someone in that unit that can take one of those two roles, I guarantee it. Here's a thought - they don't have to be a current parent! Training new adults is a must for unit sustainability. A perfect potential problem is a family that takes a job relocation, or a fall out with another adult in the unit or CO. There goes both of your top people in the unit in one fell swoop. Life happens (but of course it would *never* happen to you!). Baby Sitters of America is a popular cop out for those that can't or won't recruit, and are the martyrs that thump their chest with "I'll gladly step aside!"

This isn't about ego, it's about what's best for the unit.

I have "Star Gazer" on my phone and Ipad, but haven't taken them on a campout to use. The images they have don't really match the stars very well, but it is nice for a quick locator when get disoriented and reminder when you forget. But I've found it's tough to keep the attention of too many boys for very long past 8 constellations to begin with. So I can usually go for memory on most nights. It's when one asks about a tough one I haven't heard of or can't rememeber... thats when the app could help.

I used to bring along a great book, but looking down at a book in the dark, muffling the flashlight, screwing up your night vision, then looking back up and trying to readjust... just never worked real well.

Wow Abel, those are some pretty stark accusations. I must be lucky that in all the years of Scouting I've never witnessed those kinds of attitudes from the pros. I hope your experiences are the exception and mine aren't.

Really guys? Is it that easy to sit up on high and tell the rest of the masses to suck it up? Maybe if better guidance was given to kids before they married. Maybe if the states required some of the parent education classes before they issue a marriage certificate that they require before issuing a divorce. Maybe a whole lot of things that apparently you just dont get. I didnt either before I realized it was my best option to save my mental and physical health. That's the tradeoff I made with sin? Its so easy to say how much life was better in the good old days of when things were kept behind close doors. Its just so easy for us to say that, isnt it.

Point of clarity - in most councils, staffers are members of a Venture crew, even for CITs and volunteer staffers. His leader during his time at camp is the person in charge of that Venture crew, not the Scoutmaster of his home troop.

Ask the lodge's membership secretary what requirements they want to let you join. This kind of dilemma comes up constantly, every lodge deals with it. Although admittedly it's daggone near impossible to get any kind of written verification from a lodge membership 20+ years ago, you can still try, you never know.

In absence of that, any old membership cards or letters from an old lodge brother would definitely help.

You can wear any flap you wish, unless your unit does uniform inspections or the uniform police spot you.

But you should really wear the flap of the lodge you are currently affiliated with. It's tough to mix in with a new lodge sporting another one.

Didn't write that he should tolerate it, I wrote that he should go to the director as you did.

And a pep talk to the CIT would help too. He's in an intimidating situation, no doubt, and has to learn to stand up for himself. Life isn't going to get any easier.

We had to put some of our older guys into a few troop tents (Eureka Paragons) one year as we outgrew our campsite. They put cots in them and by the end of the week they had punctured the floor. Zippers went out due to the in and out traffic all week. Then they leaked from all that during the next downpour, soaking all their gear. What they thought was going to be a cool experience turned out to be miserable. I can fix a canvas tent leak with a roll of ductape or tarp.

Next year we moved to a larger campsite and was glad to have them all back in canvas tents with platforms.