Aquila calva

In our troop the participants in Wood Badge and NYLT pay the cost up front. Once the course is completed successfully the participant is reimbursed for half of the cost of the course.

Committee responsibilities may be spelled out in published material but committee abilities regarding behavior are so dependent on the unit leader resources and training that any responses can vary greatly from one troop to the next. The committee is primarily the troops board of directors. These are not necessarily the best people to deal with youth behavior issues. But the SM should report dangerous and repeatedly annoying bad behavior to the committee, at least so no one can say "Oh, we didn't know about that." We are all in this together. The more the scouts, adult leaders and parents understand this, the better off the troop will be.the better off we all will be. Most youth challenges are first dealt with by the youth leaders of the troop (ideally) and next by the adult program leaders.that is, the adults who are closest to any given situation. These are usually the Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmasters. When a youth demonstrates un-scout-like behavior, someone needs to say something to the scout immediately.the SPL or PL, a youth leader, an adult leader, another adult present at the timesomeone. If the behavior is really bad then someone needs to bump the reporting up a notch. Tell someone else who has more experience, tell the Scoutmaster, tell the Troop Chaplin, tell the Committee Chairtell someone who might be able to help the scout. The Scoutmaster should report bad behavior to the scouts parents and also report it at the monthly troop committee meetings. The SM also reports what steps he/she is using to deal with the situation. The SM should ask for help when help is needed and the committee should respond with real help. By the time the behavior gets to be really annoying or dangerous, the Scoutmaster and Committee Chair need to be of one mind. First, get the parents involved. Tell them in no-uncertain-terms what is going on with their son. (The parents most often already know the problem. Maybe someone else can fix this kid.) The SM and CC need to tell the scout and the parents what the limits are of the troops capabilities to deal with the scouts bad behavior. The scout and the parents need to know the limits the troop can/will deal with. If nothing works to help the situation the SM can ask the committee to expel the scout from the troop. This is WAY too bad, but sometimes there is no other option. A few years ago, there was a scout in our troop who was the son of a successful doctor. The parents were totally NOT involved in scouts but their son progressed through Cubs and Webelos and crossed over into the Troop. On the Friday evenings at the beginning of campouts the parents would drive up in their SUV, drop off their 11-year-old son and his equipment, and wave goodbye as they drove out of the parking lot as quickly as possible. Nice kid when he was around adults. But after every campout the other scouts would complain about how this scout was such a bully. He was really good at hiding his bad behavior from adults. He dropped out of scouts after about a year and most of the troop was relieved. Recently, it was reported that the parents have sent him off to a military academy. Maybe someone else can fix this kid. We are all in this together and everyone in the troop needs to understand that, including scouts, registered adult program leaders, committee members, COR and all parents. The scouts need to know that EVERYONE is looking for Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly.etc. (This message has been edited by Aquila calva)

Finger print background checks? How common is this? Does anyone know how this is accomplished? Where do the den leaders go to get their finger prints checked and who pays for it? This seems like quite a logistical challenge for scouting units especially in large units. The pack my son was in (starting in 1997, chartered by a public school) had 130 members and something like 16 dens. Den leaders would change from year-to-year, and new ones would need to be recruited, of course. Just getting the applications filled out and processed was a big job. Finger print background checks could be daunting and expensive.

Our Troop, Pack and Crew are chartered through the mens club of a large suburban Catholic Church (about 8,000 members!). Since the mens club is not a separate 501c(3) organization, the troop charter is actually held by the church. The church is situated near the border of three different suburban cities, three different school districts and two different scouting districts (talk about confusing!). Most of the recruiting for our Pack is still done through a nearby public school so the boys who join the Pack are of many different religious backgrounds. Most of those Webelos come to our troop, so the troop has boys of many faiths and will accept scouts of all faiths. I am the CC of the troop and a member of the sponsoring church. At weekend services I can look around in church and see boys who are members of at least four different scout troops because they joined scouts through their different public schools. Currently, there are 34 scouts in our troop. Of these only six are members of the sponsoring Catholic church, and eleven others are Catholic and belong to parishes nearby (within a few miles). The remaining 17 scouts are members of other Christian denominations, or are not practicing Christians, as far as I know. (It is interesting that the troop is half-and-half, that is, half Catholic and half non-Catholic.) I am not aware that any of the scouts are non-Christian. In the past few years there have been scouts who are Hindu or Buddhist. It will be interesting to see how things develop in the future, with the increasing emphasis on youth protection on a parish-wide basis. Will all Catholic churches require that all the adult registered Boy Scout leaders and scouts who are 16 or older take the Virtus training (or other similar training)? Since the churches are sponsors of the units and at least theoretically are part of the church youth program, the church leaders may well feel the need to make church-approved youth protection training mandatory. This could be a very good thing, although a logistical challenge. I wonder if this is being addressed on a national level through the Scouting Relationships Committee (or whatever its called).

Imagine (1971) Imagine there's no Heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say that I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world You may say that I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one John Lennon (b. Liverpool, 9 Oct 1940; d. New York, 8 Dec 1980)

"I don't know the official rules, but the priest's stand just doesn't seem very Christian to me." orennoah, You make an interesting statement. What do you think the "Christian stand" should be in this situation? Given that the American Catholic church recently went through (and continues to go through) a major scandal involving inappropriate and possibly illegal behavior on the part of some ordained ministers. What is a "Christian" position to take when approving scout leaders? Just curious. We are all becoming amateur risk managers.

Let me try that again. Here is a link to a youth protection program becoming common in Catholic churches, as referenced in earlier posts. This may help explain some of the current attitudes among leaders in the Catholic church when it comes to adult/child interactions. http://www.virtus.org/virtus/virtus_description.cfm

www.virtus.org

Beavah -- Your post on 9/27 in this thread was really excellent. Thank you for your insight. I would like to ask you about your post yesterday. "Where paperwork calls for a CC's signature, he/she is representing the committee not acting solo. So the CC's signature on a leader application represents that the committee has approved the leader application. The CC may even have voted "no." But he signs to reflect the committee's decision, eh? Same deal on an Eagle application." Can you tell us where this came from? Certainly, this would be the best situation, but there could arise situations where the committee chair would not feel morally obligated to sign something even if the rest of the committee said "sign it." There are too many incidents in the news where the heads of corporations got into big trouble and then claimed they were acting on the recommendation from the corporate board. (HP comes to mind today. And she said she had checked with lawyers before acting. At least that is the latest report in this pretexting scandal. In any case, she is no longer chair of the board.) If a CC feels so strongly about something that he/she can't sign it, then the issue probably needs to go to the chartered organization. That is often a dead end. We need to teach our scouts that no one can "make" you sign anything. Including the troop committee.

Hunt = "decisions are made by the committee chair" Can you tell us where this came from? It may be too sweeping a statement. Certainly "some" decisions are made by the committee chair, such us whether or not to sign a leader application. It is an important responsibility in a troop. Voting at the commmittee meeting is highly over-rated. We rarely vote on anything except when a large amount of money is being allocated or spent. Making and discussing "motions" takes way too much time. We need to get on with doing what we have volunteered to do for the good of the scouts. scoutld --- It is also the Latin name.

Our messages overlapped... So, you functioned as a troop committee member (served on BORs) and then "heard through the grapevine" that your application wasn't accepted? The other person who could have signed your troop application was the Chartered Organization Rep. Did that person sign? Time to have a heart-to-heart with the committee chair and the COR. There is more to this story. Tell us. When it comes to manipulation, you may have met your match in that committee chair. (This message has been edited by Aquila calva)

In a nutshell, everyone who attends a troop committee meeting has done something for the good of troop and is there to REPORT about what they have accomplished to the rest of the people who have also done something for the good of the troop. The committee chair prepares the agenda and presides over the meeting. The first people who get to talk are those who have something to report. These are the Chair, Secretary, Treasurer, Scoutmaster and all the coordinators as listed in the Troop Committee Guidebook. (The order of the agenda can change from month to month.) Everyone listens and waits their turn to make their report. In our troop, any adult associated with the troop is invited and welcome to the committee meeting every month. These meeting announcements and invitations are sent to all the adults by email every month. If an adult comes and has done nothing to help the troop, the committee chair (me) asks them what project they would like to help with, and I always have a list for them to choose from. I also hand them a leader application. No one ever comes only to complain. I just ask (usually in a private manner), Hows that project coming along? The committee members and Scoutmaster are there to report, listen, learn and help make decisions. If someone comes only to talk, it becomes very clear to them they have come to the wrong place and are wasting their time, because there is rarely an opportunity for them to get a word in edgewise. The meetings are packed with reports. Our meetings last ninety minutes and then we are out of there until next month. We are all too busy.

Depending on the traditions in your pack and troop, the pack could present him with the Boy Scout Handbook, or a neckerchief and slide for his new troop. He will need these for the year he is in the troop. Have a crossover ceremony, even if it is for one Scout. Make a big deal about it. He will remember it for a long time.

I hope the troop gives the boy another chance, especially if his parents were going through a separation during the previous period of "acting out." [i know, I know...it's "viCe versa." That was bugging me. My Latin teacher would be so disappointed.]

The boy approached Committee Chair and Scoutmaster about re-joining. This was a good place for him to start. While the chartered organization (through the institutional head and/or the chartered organization representative) has the right to make a final determination as to who can join a scout troop, most COs are not all that engaged and will leave the joining decisions up to the troop leaders. The only two signatures required on an application for membership in a Boy Scout Troop are the boys parent/guardian and the unit leader. (The old Boy Scout form asked for Signature of Scoutmaster. The newest multi-unit form asks for Signature of unit leader. In a Boy Scout Troop this could be Scoutmaster or, presumably, Committee Chair.) So, if the boy gets his parent to sign the application, and gets the Scoutmaster or Committee Chair to sign (and as long as there is no objection from the CO, IH or COR) then the boy is a member of the troop. It would probably not be a great idea for the SM to sign the application if the CC has an objection and visa versa. They, at least, need to form a unified opinion. Now, how the Scoutmaster and/or Committee Chair deal with the opinions and feelings of the other adults and scouts in the unit will be interesting to watch. That's called leadership. And that may be the real source of the dilemma.

It only takes one person to replace a committee chair. If the Chartered Organization Rep wont do it then one other person can do it by: Talking to the current committee chair. Getting all the necessary training. Talking to the current committee chair. Reading all the available scouting material. Talking to the current committee chair. Going on all the outings with the scouts. Talking to the current committee chair. Attending all the troop (pack) meetings. Talking to the current committee chair. Attending all the committee meetings. Talking to the current committee chair. Soon, that one other person will be the committee chair.

Thursday (yesterday) morning it was reported there had been a Pack committee meeting earlier in the week. Those attending included the Chartered Organization Rep., the Unit Commissioner and the Scout Executive. Who else was there? The Cubmaster should have been there along with the Committee Chair and all the other committee members (as described in the committee handbook). If parents had registered their complaints with the Committee Chair then he/she could have put the issue on the meeting agenda or brought it up as an oh, by the way. Any concerned parent also could have asked to address the committee about this issue. The Cubmaster should have heard the discussion and offered his comments. If there was a committee meeting with all these lofty-positioned people in attendance and the Cubmaster wasnt there, then the Pack has other problems in addition to Wedgies. Those other problems may be the real reasons the former CM is considering leaving the Pack. He is now the Webelos 2 den leader and may well be leaving in a few months, in any case. Hopefully, he will be transitioning to a troop along with all the Webelos, who now know that giving wedgies is inappropriate behavior. We cant do everything, but we can do something.

The parents of the 14-year-old need to know what their next door (adult) neighbor did (is doing?) to their son. They may regard this behavior as being too intimate. This "joke" is all about humiliation.

From Boy Scout Troop National Quality Unity Award form A subscription to Boys Life will go into the homes of all our Boy Scout members Comment: A subscription to Boys' Life is a "benefit" of being a member of our troop. The cost is part of our troop budget. We expect the troop to be boy led, so we do what we can to get as many good scouting ideas in front of all the scouts. When they come to the PLC they will have some ideas of what other troops around the country are doing for fun scouting activities. 100% Boys' Life looks great!

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/boondoggle boondoggle (b n d g l, -d g l) Informal n. 1. An unnecessary or wasteful project or activity. 2. a. A braided leather cord worn as a decoration especially by Boy Scouts. b. A cord of braided leather, fabric, or plastic strips made by a child as a project to keep busy. intr.v. boondoggled, boondoggling, boondoggles To waste time or money on a boondoggle. [Coined by Robert H. Link (died 1957), American scoutmaster.] lanyard also laniard (l n y rd) n. 1. Nautical A short rope or gasket used for fastening something or securing rigging. 2. A cord worn around the neck for carrying something, such as a knife or whistle. 3. A cord with a hook at one end used to fire a cannon. [Perhaps alteration (influenced by yard1, spar) of Middle English lainere, strap, from Old French laniere, from lasne, perhaps alteration (influenced by las, string) of *nasle, lace, of Germanic origin.]

"The Lanyard" by Billy Collins The other day as I was ricocheting slowly off the pale blue walls of this room, bouncing from typewriter to piano, from bookshelf to an envelope lying on the floor, I found myself in the L section of the dictionary where my eyes fell upon the word lanyard. No cookie nibbled by a French novelist could send one more suddenly into the past -- a past where I sat at a workbench at a camp by a deep Adirondack lake learning how to braid thin plastic strips into a lanyard, a gift for my mother. I had never seen anyone use a lanyard or wear one, if thats what you did with them, but that did not keep me from crossing strand over strand again and again until I had made a boxy red and white lanyard for my mother. She gave me life and milk from her breasts, and I gave her a lanyard. She nursed me in many a sickroom, lifted teaspoons of medicine to my lips, set cold face-cloths on my forehead, and then led me out into the airy light and taught me to walk and swim, and I, in turn, presented her with a lanyard. Here are thousands of meals, she said, and here is clothing and a good education. And here is your lanyard, I replied, which I made with a little help from a counselor. Here is a breathing body and a beating heart, strong legs, bones and teeth, and two clear eyes to read the world, she whispered, and here, I said, is the lanyard I made at camp. And here, I wish to say to her now, is a smaller gift--not the archaic truth that you can never repay your mother, but the rueful admission that when she took the two-tone lanyard from my hands, I was as sure as a boy could be that this useless, worthless thing I wove out of boredom would be enough to make us even. Billy Collins was U.S. Poet Laureate from 2001 through 2003. He's been the New York State Poet Laureate since January 2004.

Just curious...Are your new CC and treasurer, husband and wife? And they joined the committee only to "help" their mostly absent son "make" Eagle? Better watch the troop's bank account.

Dear UTBFox, Well...(to modify a previous post) it should be... Scoutmaster = program and COMMITTEE CHAIR = program support The friendly, congenial, helpful, courteous (etc) relationship between Scoutmaster and Committee chair is extremely important in creating... The Boy-Led Troop and The Boy-Led Patrol. If you re-read your posts you will discover you are involved in an "I versus THEM" situation. This is not helpful to The Boy-Led Troop and The Boy-Led Patrol..... Read the Scoutmaster HANDBOOK....Twice if necessary! You and your committee chair need to become of one mind. Start over with that Scoutmaster training! Become a Fox again. Have fun Scouting.

Shrinking? A little. Changing? A lot. The changes are called Learning for Life and Exploring.

Welcome to the Forum. Congratulations on getting trained. You sound a lot like me when my son joined Tiger Cubs in 1997. There were 46 boys who signed up that day. It has been a great adventure, and still is! Have fun Scouting.