Joni4TA

Our family uses Trails End Popcorn tins as "Scouting Canisters."

They hold patches, pins, neckerchiefs, slides, MB Blue Cards, Training Cards, and anything else you can think of that fits into a tin.

Maybe it's just me, but I had the same thought Hunt did:

"But...the boy stayed home to "help clean" when he urgently needed these signatures? This is all after his 18th birthday, when he had turned in the wrong application...which he found online and filled out the day before his birthday? This story doesn't really make sense to me...maybe we need more details before we leap to his defense."

The boy sent very important paperwork with his little brother to get signatures? Was house-cleaning more important than straightening out his Eagle paperwork?

Regardless, appeal needed ASAP. This site may help you understand that process:

http://www.dacbsa.org/p&p/p&p-Adv-EagleAppealProcess.htm

Good luck!

From what I understand in our Unit - two years ago the Troop paid for 2 Scouts to attend. Last year, it was half the price for 2 Scouts. This year we're so broke, we can't even afford to pay attention! So we are looking at possibly paying HALF for 1 Scout, and the Scout's parent coming up with the other half. And of course if anyone else wants to go, they pay full price. I think that's what we're talking about doing anyhow.

From the list of boys I have heard attended in recent years, not one of them has applied what they learned to the troop program. As far as I know, every older boy in our Troop or higher ranking Scout that could and WANTED to go, has gone. The only exception is my son, who is 15, a Star scout, has been SPL and PL at different times throughout his tenure, but was never even offered JLT!

Personally I would recommend my son go to the training, but how presumptuous is that?

I don't know how we choose. Does the SM choose? Does the Committee choose? Do all Committee and Direct Contact leaders get together and choose?

Well I verily agree with LongHaul on the issue of over-priced Popcorn! It can, and usually is, a nightmare of a fundraiser. And it only gets worse if you don't have the participation coming from the boys and their families.

Every year at Popcorn time I see the numbers of boys showing up, drop from about an average 14 per function, to about 4. They (and their parents) just don't want anything to do with it. I don't blame them much - I don't want to either, but two years in a row one of the adults in my household has been the Popcorn Kernel! We've picked the stuff up, housed it, been responsible for its inventory and set up a sales schedule. We must be nuts! I don't think I will step up next year even IF the boys decide at the PLC they want to! My husband concurs!

Anyway, our Troop splits 50/50 with the boys on commission, regardless of how much they sell. And dues are separate - at $1 per week. We HARDLY squeak by! Right now I think more is owed to the Troop account than we actually have in it. Needless to say I believe our budget needs to be revised badly, too.

I do think most parents will probably just write a fatter check versus getting more involved in a fundraiser. My opinion though.

I was ready to choke myeslf or others a couple days ago when I posted that Council lost a boy's paperwork - it was a request for Alternate Requirements, specifically the First Class (BSA Swimmer Test) Requirement.

First I had major run-around that I posted about, trying to get the request in the proper form with all the necessary signatures. Then I got all the stuff in to the Council Advancement Committee. A few weeks went by and we called on it. First we were told there was "a problem" with the paperwork. Then we got a call back that said nevermind, they were talking about the wrong kid and there was no problem with our paperwork, but they couldn't FIND the packet.

Then yesterday we got a call back - they FOUND the packet and it has been approved! Thank God! Now his alternate for the BSA Swimmer test has been ok'd and the boy can move along in rank. He had been waiting for a decision since March 2007!

Whewww! What a whirlwind!

A Webelos Scout in his second year as such, is what I call a Webelos II.

Yes, the little brother will count when he is eligible to join Boy Scouts in a few weeks. He is already 11, and is about to earn his AOL, is at least 10 and not yet 18. Thanks.

A helpful and friendly fellow Scouter has added up the square miles in my District. Thanks eolesen!

6608 sq. mi.!

I think I view the whole MB and rank process a bit differently than most because of military service and having moved around so many times during both my son's tenure as Scouts.

As Eamonn said, a SM should pretty much know his Scout well. But when you get a boy that transfers into your Troop at the age of 17 and his official record isn't straight, it gets difficult. This is what happened to my oldest son. He had to "prove" his Eagle worthiness in a short period of time. He was fairly close to 18. What the newest Council had for his record was basically only what he earned in that Council! Maybe that's why somewhere near EBOR time he had to provide all those Blue Cards. So that's my only experience with the EBOR process.

I just accepted the scrutiny of my son's MB's and ranks. At the time I thought ALL Eagle candidates had to show their Blue Cards and prove their Advancement record. Now I know differently, but it hasn't changed the fact that I encourage every Scout to use the Blue Cards if they can, based on my family's experience.

I can't help but wonder if my son didn't have all his blue cards, would the Board have denied him Eagle?

I had regular old white rice tonight and it was pretty filling. I used about 2 cups uncooked and it fed my family of five. 10,000 plus grains? No wonder I am full!

I wonder how many people 2,457,120,420 grains of rice will feed!

This is cool.

Well honestly my issue is a compound one.

1. A boy shouldn't even begin working on a MB without a signature from his SM, on a blue card!

2. If #1 doesn't happen - the next in line is the MBC, who shouldn't even be accepting the boy as a MB candidate, WITHOUT his signed-by-the-SM-blue-card.

3. If the MBC or Summer Camp counselor doesn't deny the MB work because the kid has no blue card, but instead lets him continue, marks the MB complete, and provides the Council with some piece of paperwork saying the boy completed the MB, the Unit and the Council shouldn't allow it to go through because the boy and the MBC didn't ensure step #'s 1, 2, or 3 were done correctly.

4. If the Unit and/or Council counts the MB as "earned" anyway, but somehow or another it never gets put into the boys permanent Scout record, not a soul on earth can ever prove he did that MB. Especially if he becomes an Eagle candidate and is asked to provide a current record of Advancement!

By then it's "too late" right? So then we just give the boy a pass to Eagle because a Scout is trustworthy. We hope so anyway.

I agree with eolesen on this one when he says, "a Scout is Trustworthy... if you tell me something is done, I take your word for it. If someone earns their Eagle thru nefarious means, they are the one that has to live with that."

I could go on and on with this. But it's not worth the time it would take to type it. I think we all know the MB process and where things can and do go wrong.

I would count a MB as "earned" as soon as I get something from the MBC that says the boy completed the MB. That could be a blue card, and it can be one of those printouts I discussed earlier that I always seem to get from Summer Camps.

My problem is the inconsistency of it all. And it only seems to matter to many folks when a boy gets too close to Eagle and nothing can be done to fix the problem! The problem didn't start when the kid was at the end of Life rank moving ever closely to Eagle. It started when he began earning MB's back when he was a Second Class Scout and the MB process wasn't held to its rightful standard then.

Regardless of how I wish it would work in a perfect Advancement world, I believe the badge is EARNED when the MBC is satisfied it's earned, and has signed off on it.

I get it Packsaddle... probably because after living in Alabama, and seeing the old lady down the street wear a bib because of her snuff drool running down her chin and staining all her clothing, I have learned there truly ARE worse things in life than smoking a Pall Mall.

My husband (who was not my husband at the time), knew me when I lived in Alabama. He graduated from Augusta State in GA and then had the nerve to tell me a joke - "How do you tell a married couple in AL?" I said I have no idea. He said, "There's tobacco stains on both sides of the truck floor."

hardy har har. I have NEVER dipped snuff! lol

In my Eagle Scout son's case, he had to have all his blue cards going through the Eagle process. I don't remember exactly at what stage of the game he had to furnish them, but he did. Why? Because throughout his tenure as a youth, he was involved in 7 different Councils. No way his record could have followed him around all those Councils, without error or missing something! It happened to be missing quite a lot by the time it caught up with him and he was gearing up for Eagle status.

My second son, a Star Scout, is on his 5th Council. Same thing with him unfortunately, but lucky for us most of what is "lost" in the shuffle is Cubbie stuff that's irrelevant to Boy Scouts. The only thing we really have to get moved is his Arrow of Light. He wears the patch on his uniform and as it sits right now, according to the records in our current Council - he doesn't rate the AOL patch because he never earned it!

Then there is the issue of Summer Camp. I have yet to see a blue card actually come home from Summer Camp! All I saw the last couple years is a copy of a paper sheet with a bunch of kids' names on it, what MB's they completed or what req'ts are remaining from their partials. I am the Advancements Chair. Do I accept this as "earned"?

I sent a boy to a Merit Badge University a couple weeks ago, WITH a blue card signed by the SM. He said he was the only one in the whole class of 24 boys who actually had one! I wonder how many of the other 376 boys that attended the University had Blue Cards or not? First thing on the application for the MBU said "MB BLUE CARDS WILL BE USED!" Apparently not!

I happen to agree that depending on which way you look at the process from, the term "earned" can fall at many levels. As the Troop Advancements person, I can say that no boy in my unit will show that he's earned anything on his record unless I turn in my Advancements report! However, I count a MB as earned when the blue card gets returned to me, whatever date the MBC has signed it.

So what if there is no blue card for the MBC to sign, and one never gets back to me? Then when exactly is a MB considered earned?

We are forced with the same kind of decision in our Troop right now. I just came to the Troop last May. Apparently they have sent 2 boys the last couple years in a row, making it 4 out of the 18 active in the Troop right now who've been to this youth training.

I am sort of torn on this because I don't see where the 4 boys that went have applied anything that they've learned at their training, here at Troop level. It could be that we didn't have the member numbers back then to operate with Patrols, and the cedar badge or nylt they went to was geared toward patrol method? I am honestly not sure.

I hope we figure it out soon because we do need to make a decision!

Well I did get a clarification on what training I would need from the District. I apparently don't need the Outdoor Leader Skills, as I am not a SM or an ASM. I already have the NL Essentials and Troop Committee. I took SM Specific just for craps and giggles a few years ago, and I was planning to take OLS but never got back a round tuit. I'll complete that some day as well. I don't know if I am the one our Committee is trying to establish funds for sending to WB, we haven't named names or anything. I just know our CC is WB trained and so is my husband. There's only a few more MC's left. One is brand spanking new, then there is me and another gal.

We aren't a rich Troop by any means and I don't know if we are even going to be able to send someone at all. If it ends up being me that's chosen, I'd like to know how I can offset some of the costs right away, and I am not sure I can do that based on my household income alone. Like say we decide the Troop pays half or something - and I am the one chosen, I don't even know if I can come up with the other half right now. That would be really embarrassing! But maybe this scholarship deal is what I can do. This is why I am asking all the questions I am, to "Be Prepared!"

My husband is a Wood Badger, but honestly he's not much help. He went through Wood Badge 13 years ago, and when I asked him about WB for the 21st Century he basically scoffed and said it was a watered-down version of what he went through. Not helpful at all! I don't know about either the old way or the new way. But I get the feeling some of his negativity has to do with the fact that we can't really afford to send me, and he doesn't like the financial position we're in right now. So I didn't push the issue.

A couple years ago, we were able to afford a lot more - both he and my son went to Philmont together. We gave to the James E. West Fellowship fund in our Council in March of '05, and were able to generously contribute to FOS as well as the Combined Federal Campaign, directly to local Scouting. We also were in a much wealthier Troop back then and lived on an island. Things like major training sessions for Youth, Adults, and the like were given locally and didn't seem so costly.

Anyway, I appreciate the response. I do still think I am going to have to go talk to "someone" at Council. I'd love to talk to my DE as I am comfortable with him, but he is still very wet behind the ears when it comes to Scouting and I don't want to bother him - he's got enough to do in his learning curve!

I admit it, it's been over 18 years since I went to a business seminar or skills improvement course. And the few I went to were probably at a discount rate through my employer at the time. So the cost "was" about the same as a modern-day Wood Badge course. I wasn't aware of the serious incline in cost of attendance to business management seminars/courses. My mistake - I apologize for the grouping of the two types of training.

I don't know anything about the other threads about Wood Badge except that I went in a couple, looking for some answers, but quickly backed out of those threads because they went off on tangents I was confused on. Not where I want to ask advice from. I started my own thread because of these 2 real live applications staring me in the face for this coming Spring! And my Committee has been talking about sending 1 eligible youth to Cedar Badge and 1 eligible Adult to Wood Badge this year. We're discussing funding.

That's all there is to it!

Ever hear the saying, "If you have nothing nice to say, how about saying nothing at all?"

I came here asking for help and to understand, not to be continually addressed by a chip on someone's shoulder. It's the "I know it all - you're an idiot - and let me tell you why" chip. I don't appreciate it. In my Council, the youth training IS ONLY called Cedar Badge, and has never been referred to as NYLT, so who are you to tell me in a condescending manner, "Uh, there is no such thing as "Cedar Badge"? Completely uncalled for.

Also, my Council's Wood Badge is not a 7-day deal, it is 4 days plus a Patrol meeting(s) in between. And I do not understand most anything about Wood Badge. The paperwork I have is vague. I know there are many experienced Scouters on this message board who have been to Wood Badge. So I wanted more information.

I hope this is not the way you treat all Scouters with questions about something they know little or are seeking information on. If you've been to Wood Badge, and learned in that course how to communicate with less experienced Scouters in the manner you do, then no thanks - I will NEVER go to Wood Badge.

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I still don't quite understand what the "outdoor skills training program appropriate for my Scouting position" is, but the Wood Badge application I am looking at says I need this, under the part that says "Who May Attend Wood Badge." I'll have to ask someone.

I also don't know if I believe "food, training materials, a hat, copyright fees, supplies, insurance and recognition" add up to nearly $200 but I digress. The cost is what it is I suppose, and it's set for a reason. I think I'd be too embarrassed to ask about a scholarship. I don't know....

I appreciate the responses from those who didn't feel the need to be condescending. Thank you.

Thank you! I printed out the one from Scouting mag.

This boy started his 1st class in June 2006, so he definitely needs to complete requirement 11.

He won't have to send an e-card, he has a Webelos II little brother he plans to invite to the troop.

Thank you CM Randy, ePalmer, et al. I appreciate it!

P.S. epalmer???? Why do all your posts show up twice?

Thank you GW and Lisa. I have 6 children (3 still living in the home), 3 grandchildren, and a spouse that was our breadwinner but hasn't worked in full capacity since October 2005.

I don't know why folks get so nearly rude, and can't seem to believe just because it's not expensive for THEM, maybe it IS for "the other guy" when the other guy says it is. Expensive is a relative term, depending on what one's personal financial status and priorities are. When my car insurance and property taxes are due in the same month as Wood Badge, Wood Badge is TOO expensive! I don't know if I am eligible for a scholarship or not. I don't know if I am in fact eligible for Wood Badge. I am not sure what the "outdoor skills training program appropriate" for my Scouting position is; yes that would be Committee Member. I think it's OLS, which I don't have. I completed SM Specific but a typhoon canceled my OLS weekend.

How much is it going to cost my family for me to be gone though, too? Another story. I may not contribute monetarily but I am the house-mouse at this time, however small and worthless others may feel that contribution is.

I was trying to find out are they professionals that teach this or volunteers? If volunteers, why does it cost as much as it does?

In my Council it looks like what's covered in the cost of Wood Badge are "food, training materials, a hat, copyright fees, supplies, insurance and recognition." They do the training on 2 weekends, and it's held in the park our Council owns.

Anyway, I was just curious what costs actually cover. Maybe my question needs to go to my Council instead.

I think there are going to be quite a few that DO the snack. My GS Daisy Troop did snack every meeting last year, and as Brownies this year we do a snack too. I haven't been involved with Cubbies in a long while but when I was a DL we did snack at every meeting up until Webelos 1 if I remember correctly. Our Troop doesn't snack though

It's certainly worth looking at - do we really NEED all that snacking? In our GS case, we meet at 6pm so a snack at 7pm could have either ruined the dinner the girls didn't get before the meeting that Mom was saving til after, or effect bedtime routine depending on what time that runs in each household.

I see in Alamo Area Council, Cedar Badge is taught "by volunteer Scouts and Scouts of the Alamo Area Council." Is this the case wherever this is offered?

The cost of Wood Badge seems to run between $150 and $300. That's expensive to me. So are other training courses outside of the BSA. I am not saying it's not worth it, I am just curious as to who teaches these courses and why the cost is what it is.

And yes there is such a thing as Cedar Badge. Read on:

http://www.grandtetoncouncil.org/Forms/Training/Cedar%20Badge/CBApplication.pdf

http://www.grandtetoncouncil.org/index.cfm?pageid=1492

http://www.bsatroop107.com/training.html

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CEDAR BADGE: Cedar Badge is a week long Junior Leader Training Experience provided by volunteer Scouts and Scouts of the Alamo Area Council to prepare junior leaders with effective patrol and troop leadership. Cedar Badge Goals:

* To give Scouts an understanding of the 11 skills of leadership and how to apply them in his troop and patrol. * To prepare Scouts with a learning experience in a variety of Scoutcraft skills which will enable him to assist his patrol and troop members as they participate in the Boy Scouts of America advancement program.* To provide junior leaders with the knowledge to assist in creating a quality program for their own troop. * To give Scouts an opportunity to share experiences with other junior leaders in the Alamo Area Council.

Offered in 2008: June 7-14, 2008

Thanks Cubmaster Randy! So now I wonder, is that a Central Wyoming Council decision or does that apply nationally? I can already tell you I am going to have a hard time convincing this particular person that because Wyoming says so, it's true for TX

Yeah... I have the Requirements books dated 2007. I also have the ACP&P #33088 dated 2002, BS Handbook dated 2002.

I don't see anything about 1st Class and #11 related to a grandfather clause.

That's why I asked here. Thanks!