John-in-KC

I sadly have to agree with Seattle Pioneer. Earlier this year, I was out on a maintenance workday at our Scout Reservation; we had a late winter wet snow with wind, and we had two Troops in trouble even in campsite camping mode. If you prepare for the worst that can happen on a camp, you will almost always be pleasantly surprised, or in other words, plan to the worst case.

While Federal law is consistent, State law is not. Contact your DE at Council. Ask to speak to the Council CFO (probably a volunteer) or the General Counsel (certainly a volunteer). They can help you with details for where you are.

AGAIN, I SAY: UNIT SERVING SCOUTERS ARE VOLUNTEERS IN SUPPORT OF THEIR CHARTERED PARTNER. Decisions which commit your CHARTERED PARTNER's REPUTATION to bad news in the local paper or TV need to be taken to the IH and COR FIRST. Let them instruct you on how to deal with this. They may well be OK with going to the police or small claims court. They may have other ideas as well. An article in the local paper: "Cub Scout Pack 4321 has Mrs Smith arrested for theft" do not go over well with the good people of the community who charter your units. It your money as well as reputation in the community, it's also their reputation in the community. Remember, they own the unit. FIRST TALK TO THE IH and COR. There are times when permission is better than forgiveness.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Mr or Ms WestCoastScouter: 1) It's time for a business meeting with your COR. Small claims court and police action are matters for them, as the licensee of record for your Pack to choose to pursue. Walk the dog with them, then let them make the decision. 2) From now on, get a "outbound" receipt from each family for the popcorn they draw. Put a simple sentence on it: "I understand I must produce the remaining popcorn or its cash value ($_XXX.XX_) no later than (date) at (place)." It's not a contract, but if push comes to shove it will show a small claims judge you had controls and procedures to account for the product. 3) Otherwise, pretty much what ownthenight said.

When I was a youth member (40 odd years ago), we were looked at before our parents were allowed to leave the gathering point. Now, I was also a Southern Californian, and you can do a lot late into the season there. This past winter, I was a campmaster at our Scout Reservation. We got a late winter, wet snow. The two troops were not prepared for winter ... no warming fires, no extra changes of dry clothes, sad all around. Thank the good Lord we had all the senior staff cabins available; we put kids in every one of them. We had kids who were approaching frank hypothermia. There was a lot of cocoa and tea made that night.

This is one time where I certainly agree with Kudu. A friend was doing a start-up troop from the ground, about 7 years ago. He realized he needed experienced Scouts to be role models for the 20-odd Tenderfeet he was going to absorb. He asked my son to be start-up SPL. Too bad my sons' mother refused to concede "her night" with my son. Opportunity lost... The object is what Kudu said: Get experienced Scouts and let the young ones see what's going on. There's nothing wrong in letting TG/NS PL take his Tenderfoot APL to PLC, and have him learn by observing...

peri asked: Do Scout units have to take any boy, or to be relevant, can you have a Catholic only (or Methodist only or Jewish only) Scout unit? The answer is "it depends." IF the Chartered Partner in question chooses to operate a closed unit, that is within its rights under the Charter Agreement: "Respect the aims and objectives of the organization and offer the resources of Scouting to help in meeting those objectives." Now, if the Chartered Partner chooses to operate an open unit, then there's plenty of guidance which prohibits proselytizing: This one is from the Manual for Chaplains and Chaplain Aides: "At no time should the chaplain proselytize." Clear as mud?

Some questions the DE should ask his Commish and Chair each year: - What is the percentage of Webelos who joined Boy Scout Troops? (X) - Do we think X, whatever value, good enough? If it's good enough, then there are other problems for the Key 3 to worry about, and the plan is still working. If X is not good enough, then the DE, Commish, and Chair talk to each other and ask: What resources can we give unit serving Scouters to encourage/assist/support transition? Then, it's up to the Commissioner's Service and the Operating Committees.

Avid, I've not gone to myscouting today, but G2SS all of a sudden started talking about "winter awareness" training. Sigh. What Stosh said, plus, keeping feet dry!!

Mike, Now, you said: "After thinking about it a bit, I sided with PLC and we have some awesome camo shirts the boys are proud to wear with troop logo on the front and troop motto on the back." BRAVA!!!!! There's nothing I know of in the literature about a restriction on non-military camouflage. Period. I would, though, as someone who enjoys making weapons deliver ordnance, offer to your youth both sides of the "camouflage/high visibility" conundrum out in the woods. That, though, can be done inside a Scoutmaster Minute. Good work with them!

Mike, I commend you for wanting to work with this Scout to overcome this minor adversity. Hopefully, his embrace of it will make him stronger in the weeks to come! Now, a friendly cup of coffee between you and the CC is in order. The first key point is the CC needs to have the moral courage to be his own heavy, and inform the boy: - He was not ready for advancement. - Here is the Boards' specific thinking. - Here are the topics the Scout must address before advancing. As noted by others, the Board also has to put this in writing and deliver it to the Scout. Now, feedback is a gift. The CC should have already visited with you and discussed the program weaknesses, if any, that brought this Scout to non-advancement. If he has not, then another part of your friendly cup of coffee is "Why haven't you shared the causes with me yet?" As before, I commend you for wanting to work with the Scout. He's not going to be on top of the world, and he needs encouragement. Give him room to put his own ideas together, encourage him, and then provide the opportunities needed for his ideas to take hold. Now, a couple direct questions: - Did you tell the Scout he was ready for his BOR? -- Do you agree with the BOR findings? -- If not, do their findings conform with BSA policy? -- If yes, have you on your own identified any program weaknesses and looked to how to correct them? - If he asked for an advancement BOR against your recommendation, did you give him a heads-up that non-advancement was a possible consequence? I look forward to your responses

If your new COR is willing to be your heavy, and do his share of the lifting in leader selection and qualification, then you can ride this wave. If he's not willing to do his share, then I can see you being right back in the bad place way too soon. If there's one thing I've learned, the moving parts of the adult side of Scouting work pretty fair ... when everyone does their part...

OK, we're there... we've reached the Godwin's Law point...

Buckytom, Great!!! Welcome back to Scouting, BTW! Yes, wear your Arrowhead on the right pocket as a temporary dangle patch. I believe the Tooth Of Time Traders trading posts sells a plastic protector for this very special patch you have! You walked hard to earn that one, it tells a major tale of your own Scouting career. Yes, by all means get the purple background, silver rope square knot of BSA recognition of a youth religious emblem. Again, it helps tell your own story. Have fun on the trail as you become Cubmaster. If you only remember one thing from training, make it: KISMIF! (Keep it simple, make it fun) Enjoy!

"The adult leadership uses it as a weapon to block advancement. The scouts are given very little, if any, feedback during the POR period, either good or bad, yet at the end of the POR period are given a performance rating of only two options: fully performed or not-at-all. There is no middle "satisfactory but could use improvement" rating. And the ratings are not told to the scouts, they are kept in secret until its time for a scout to meet for his next SM conference, and only then do they find out that they received a negative rating and must wait for another POR period to come and go before requesting another SM conference." Yes, that's frustrating. I hope that you are a registered leader and have taken Youth Protection, Fast Start, Scoutmaster Fundamentals, and Troop Committee Challenge training. Why, you ask? Because then, you can approach the SM/CC over a friendly cup of coffee and say "Show me where what you do is in line with the BSA program, please. I cannot seem to find this in the Scoutmaster handbook." Feedback is a gift The youth members of your Troop deserve to know where they stand throughout the time they have a Troop duty. They may be working in Quadrant I of the leadership maturity model (Hi Direction, Low Support aka "Do this, then this, then this") or they may be in Quadrant II ("That was fantastic, now I need you to do this!"). No matter how you slice it, they need guidance and support, not "I've got a secret ... GOTCHA!!" If you get something less than desirable, particularly if your son is denied advancement by the SM after tenure in a position, then you have options: - You and your sons can look for another Troop. - You can tell your sons to do better and suck it up. - You can tell the committee chair: "If at his BOR my son is not advanced, on his behalf as my minor child, I will appeal your denial of advancement to the District Advancement Chairman." Scoutmasters, Committee Chairs, and especially COR's don't like to have District/Council looking at operating practices with a microscope. Sometimes, the request is enough to revisit the matter. CAUTION: This path can burn bridges. Be sure the matter is serious enough to pull the trigger on this option before doing so.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Let me be blunt, yet again: When a Council has sufficient young men with the right skillsets seeking seasonal staff employment, then there is no need for youth member women as staff at a Scout reservation. The fact of the matter is we are not attracting enough young men to seasonal employment in our Councils. Sacking groceries and flipping burgers both pay more. In my State, the minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. That's $290 a week. EagleSon, in his fifth year of staffing, got $130 per week, and a $500 staff scholarship at the end of season. Altruism was one of the main reasons he worked staff. Folks, I'll give sympathy to the "women ought not to be there" crowd when you have, in your Council, a solution to the need for and the shortage of seasonal male youth and transitional adult staff.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Neill, What idiot put five of the seven sessions during hours of business? Many of us have day jobs. The easy way to do this is build several segments and load them to youtube, or downloadable quicktimes. Oh, well. Forrest Gump seems to be alive and well everywhere.

B, I think the real question is: State X has three governing sets of law: - International conventions to which the US is a party by ratified treaty. (99.999% probability this will never apply). - Federal Law - State Law From what this public manager knows, sometimes you attorney types look back to the English Common Law as well. So that's four sets for one judge to evaluate and apply as appropriate in any one given case. TO ME, what Oklahoma did was say: Judges, you may not consider other people's statutes beyond these four in looking at our statutes. That could be German law, French law, or even Argentinian law, as well as Islamic Sharia law. You, unlike I, are reputed to have a trained legal mind. What say you on what should be in/should be out???

Hi, My two cents: If your Philmont patch is your Arrowhead from a trek, of course wear it. It helps to tell a tale of Scouting to the youth of your Pack. You'll have to check with a Catholic to be sure, but I believe the Ad Altare Dei religious emblem qualifies for the youth religious square knot (purple background, silver knot). If so, then wear the knot. It will help be a conversation starter. Outside of those, the general policy is stuff earned as a youth member is not a part of the adult uniform. The universal exceptions are AOL, Eagle, religious emblems (as before), Venturing Silver, James E West Fellowship, and the National Court of Honor heroism medals. All of those have authorized knots. Have I answered your question, does this help?

Someone needs to say thank you and bless you to your COR. You need to have a business meeting with your IH and COR. Explain you are going to have to be the heavy here, and ask them (indeed, state you expect them) to back you. Then: Be the heavy. No dues, we drop your boy forthwith. Period. If the parents choose to transfer after that, if they are in arrears, tell them: Gee, your records are not available. You'll have to ask the new unit to get a ScoutNet dump on your kid. Then, make it a continuity point for the future that dues are to be paid on time, and that dues are a condition of membership. Now, in saying this, I presume you and the CM know who can afford to pay, and is slacking, and who needs assistance. Work with those who need assistance.(This message has been edited by John-in-Kc)

CA, Like you, I work in the industry now. My data availability rate is about the same as you, and we're not allowed a redundant data center. Considering my experiences with IT at National, including non-savable fill-in PDFs, ScoutNet recharters that still take 60 days to process, commish visit tracking, I'm convinced an external specialist vendor can do the mission faster, cheaper and better than National ... and that includes online redundancy.

First, I hope if this activity is being done at all, it's being done as a PACK event, to wit the G2SS (in boldface, meaning policy): Overnight camping by Tiger, Wolf, and Bear Cub Scout dens as dens is not approved and certificates of liability insurance will not be provided by the Boy Scouts of America. Second, apparently there is now some form of "SAFE WINTER DEFENSE" training, as there is Safe Swim Defense, Climb On Safely, and so on. Anybody of our trainers see this curriculum? From G2SS: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss13.aspx Winter Activities XIII. Winter Activities Winter Camping Safety There is magic to camping in winter. It is one of the most advanced and challenging of outdoor adventures. Special considerations for winter camping include the following: 1. Leadership. In no other camp is the type of leadership as important as in the winter camp. It is vital that a leader be an experienced camper with a strong character. 2. Equipment. Do not attempt to camp unless completely outfitted. Even if equipment for winter camp is more expensive than for summer camp, Scouts must be adequately clothed, and leaders should ensure that blankets and other equipment are of suitable quality and weight. 3. Physical Condition. A physician's certificate as to physical ability must be obtained by each Scout before preliminary training begins. Tips for your next winter camping trip: 1. Use the buddy system for winter outings. Buddies can check each other for frostbite, make sure no one becomes lost, and boost the morale of the entire group. 2. Plan to cover no more than five miles per day on a winter trek on snowshoes. An experienced group can cover 10 to 12 miles on cross-country skis. 3. Always allow ample time to make camp in winter, especially if you plan to build snow shelters. 4. Fatigue encourages accidents. Rest occasionally when building a snow shelter; taking part in cross-country skiing or snowshoeing; or participating in other active winter sports. Periodic rests also help avoid overheating. 5. Pulling a load over the snow on a sled or toboggan is generally easier than carrying it in a backpack. 6. Snow is a terrific insulator. Snow shelters are much warmer than tents because they retain heat and keep out the cold wind. If you have adequate time for building snow shelters, you will spend a much more comfortable night sleeping in them than in a tent. 7. Snow is the greatest thief in winter, swallowing up small dropped items. Tie or tape a piece of brightly colored cord to small items so they can be seen in snow. Some items, such as mittens, can be tied to larger items, such as a parka, to prevent them from being dropped and lost. 8. Melting snow in a pot to get water may cause the pot to burn through or may scorch the snow, giving the water a disagreeable taste. Prevent this by adding a cup or two of water in the bottom of the pot before putting in the snow to melt. 9. Punch a hole in the top of your ice chisel and string a stout cord through it. Before trying to chisel a hole in ice, anchor the cord to something large or too heavy to be pulled through the hole so you will not lose your chisel in freezing water when the ice is penetrated. 10. Always test the thickness of ice before venturing any distance from the shore. Ice should be at least 3 inches thick for a small group; 4 inches of ice is safe for a crowd. Since ice thickness can vary considerably, it is best to stay near the shoreline of large lakes. 11. Use alkaline batteries in flashlights. Standard batteries deteriorate quickly in cold weather. Tape the switch of your flashlight in the "off" position until you are ready to use it. This will prevent it from being turned on accidentally while in your pack or on your sled. 12. Encourage everyone in your group to wear brightly colored outer clothing so that each person will be more visible, especially during severe weather. 13. Small liquid-fuel stoves are much better for cooking in winter than fires, which are difficult to build with wet wood. Gathering wood that is frozen to the ground also can be difficult, if not impossible. A pressure/pump-type stove is essential in winter. 14. Always use a funnel to refuel a stove so you won't frostbite your fingers by accidentally pouring fuel on them. Fuel evaporates at a high rate of speed and quickly removes heat from anything it touches. 15. Place a stove or fire on a platform of logs or rocks so it will not melt through the snow. 16. Never light or use a stove inside a tent or snow shelter. A tent may catch fire, and vapors in a snow shelter may lead to carbon monoxide poisoning. Neither of these potential mishaps is worth the risk. 17. A windscreen is essential for using a stove in the winter. Even a slight breeze will direct the heat away from its intended mark. References: Okpik: Cold Weather Camping, Boy Scout Handbook, Scoutmaster Handbook, and Camping Sparklers Winter Sports Safety (Updated August 19, 2009) Beyond camping, a number of cold-weather activities present challenges to the Scout and leader, such as cross-country skiing, ice skating, sledding, snowmobiling, ice fishing, and snowshoeing. Essential ingredients for fun include skill training and an awareness of the hazards unique to these activities. Snow conditions, hazardous terrain, special clothing needs, and emergency survival are important issues for a safe and successful experience. Be sure your winter outdoor activity always follows these guidelines: 1. All winter activities must be supervised by mature and conscientious adults (at least one of whom must be age 21 or older) who understand and knowingly accept responsibility for the well-being and safety of the youth in their care, who are experienced and qualified in the particular skills and equipment involved in the activity, and who are committed to compliance with the seven points of BSA Winter Sports Safety. Direct supervision should be maintained at all times by two or more adults when Scouts are "in the field." The appropriate number of supervisors will increase depending on the number of participants, the type of activity, and environmental conditions. 2. Winter sports activities embody intrinsic hazards that vary from sport to sport. Participants should be aware of the potential hazards of any winter sport before engaging in it. Leaders should emphasize preventing accidents through adherence to safety measures and proper technique. 3. Appropriate personal protective equipment is required for all activities. This includes the recommended use of helmets for all participants engaged in winter sports such as sledding and other sliding devices. The use of helmets is required for the following activities: downhill skiing, snowboarding and operation of snowmobiles (full face helmets). 4. Winter sports activities often place greater demands on a participant's cardiopulmonary system, and people with underlying medical conditions (especially if the heart or lungs are involved) should not participate without medical consultation and direction. For participants without underlying medical conditions, the annual health history and physical examination by a licensed health-care practitioner every three years are sufficient. The adult leader should be familiar with the physical circumstances of each youth participant and make appropriate adjustments in the activity or protection as warranted by individual health or physical conditions. Adults participating in strenuous outdoor winter activity should have an annual physical examination. It is recommended that the medical assessment be performed by a licensed health-care practitioner knowledgeable of the sport and the particular physical demands the activity will place on the individual. 5. For winter sports such as skiing, snowboarding, snowmobiling, etc. that utilize specialized equipment, it is essential that all equipment fit and function properly. 6. When youth are engaging in downhill activities such as sledding or tobogganing, minimize the likelihood of collision with immobile obstacles. Use only designated areas where rocks, tree stumps, and other potential obstacles have been identified and marked, cleared away, shielded, or buffered in some way. 7. All participants should know, understand, and respect the rules and procedures for safe winter activity. The applicable rules should be presented and learned before the outing, and all participants should review them just before the activity begins. When Scouts know and understand the reasons for the rules, they will observe them. When fairly and impartially applied, rules do not interfere with fun. Rules for safety, plus common sense and good judgment, keep the fun from being interrupted by tragedy. Reference: Health and Safety Guide, No. 34415 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ As a youth member in Southern California in the 1960s/early 70s, folks like Trevorum and I got bling for camping below freezing! These days, living smack in the middle of flyover country, Scouts I know need to be prepared for "Cold, Wet" climate regimes (45F to 5F or so, rain falling and snow showering), because you can get mighty miserable if you don't have warm and dry gear to hand, day and night! As Stosh says... cotton is rotten. I'm old fashioned, I like WOOL. ;-) Camping in winter is first an exercise to convert survival to having a comfortable operating base in the cold, in the wet. Then, you add in the games

It's back...

It's Monday morning, and the National website is down. Called my Council, asked for the CIO, and his secretary said: It's not just the website, it's all down: ScoutNet, the whole shooting match. National really needs to outsource IT to a competent firm. If it's time to finish your recharter, good luck. You'll need it.

Even Better: Go to Bemidji Woolen Mills and buy their (much better than BSA's!!) Northern Tier Trading Post jac-shirt. Far better quality, fit and finish. Then, it's not BSA uniform, and you can look at the U.P. and say "Go Away." Of course, I'd dare any card carrying member of the U.P. to confront my District Commissioner and tell him he's wrong. I could sell tickets for that...