John-in-KC

My time is valuable: please treat it that way. Yea, verily, Nike!!! Don't read me the power point slides. I can read. Add value to them. If the training is read the powerpoints, I can do that faster with better retention if I'm given them in hardcopy or with url.

Get the adults you need, and form the right number of dens There is a reason the United States Armed Forces work with a direct supervision system of 5-7 people accountable to 1 leader. It's called human ability to span control. Scouting discovered its truth a century ago. Do the right thing. Recruit the leaders and den chiefs you need, and get your span down to 6-8. I know a Cub Scout Pack that has subdivided into Tribes. They did that for a reason. The Pack is the oldest chartered unit in the Council. It's Pack 1, really and truly. There are two complete sets of program people, and the two major elements (both 60 youth +) meet separately. That's different from working directly with youth. Enough said.

One caution: Let the Scoutmaster make decisions on hiring ASMs. They are responsible and accountable to him as the chief program guy for the Troop. You have a chop, but ASMs have to be able to work with and for the Scoutmaster. BTW, 40 youth members is not a bad number at all. As Beavah points out often here, the right size for a Troop is often determined by the size the Scoutmaster believes he can deal with.

Bronco, At the end of the day, a Troop Committee has three big jobs: - Resource the Scoutmaster's program. Example areas: -- Transportation -- Annual Budget - Provide administrative support to the Scoutmaster. -- Advancement coordination. -- Fundraising manager. -- Membership/recharter bubba -- Equipment coordination. -- Treasurer (in my neck of the woods, law requires an adult on any account which has a minor on the account). - Provide specialist mentors for youth members who have Warrant Offices (aka POR). -- Membership/recharter and Advancement bubba provides resources to the Scribe. -- Equipment Coordinator provides resources to the Quartermaster. -- Treasurer receives money from Patrol Leaders (dues and LT camp payments). Now, is this precisely from the literature? No, but I think it's the concept the literature describes. The youth creates the program. The SM mentors the youth in creating the program, is accountable to the Chartered Partner for its execution, and ensures the program supports the Methods of Scouting. The Committee supports the Scoutmaster in the program.

Everything Nike said! Get to know your Chartered Organization Representative. Find out what the unit can do to help the Chartered Partner. Conversely, don't be afraid to ask for help from the chartered partner. Get to know your Unit Commissioner. If you don't know who that is, contact your District Commissioner and pester him for the support you need. Go to District Roundtable. Get to know the other volunteers in the area, both in the units and working District stuff. Every problem you've seen has probably been seen before. No sense reinventing the wheel. Remember: KISMIF works for adults too!

The quote was verbatim, in its entirety.

Actually, I know young adult teachers (up to 30 or so) who spend their summers as Philstaff... 900 a month with room and board paid is not a bad wage... For most of these positions, prior experience in a Council level camp program is very desirable.

... on Scouting's facebook feed: Astronomy, Horsemanship, and Nuclear Science merit badges will have revised requirements in 2011. Archery and Sports merit badges will have minor requirement updates. Details when we get them. So, start looking at Scouting and at ussscouts...

Since everyone is interested in hijacking this thread over whether or not an Eagle is a worthy leader, I will make one attempt to furnish real information to the WestCoastScouter, the OP: PROGRAM POLICY, from the GUIDE TO SAFE SCOUTING: Age Guidelines The Boy Scouts of America has established the following guidelines for its members' participation in camping activities: < snip > * A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by an adult. In most cases, the Webelos Scout will be under the supervision of his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of a parent-approved adult. Joint Webelos den-troop campouts including the parents of the Webelos Scouts are encouraged to strengthen ties between the pack and troop. Den leaders, pack leaders, and parents are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips. < snip > If a well-meaning leader brings along a child who does not meet these age guidelines, disservice is done to the unit because of distractions often caused by younger children. A disservice is also done to the child, who is not trained to participate in such an activity and who, as a nonmember of the group, may be ignored by the older campers. Reference: Cub Scout Outdoor Program Guidelines, No. 13-631 http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss03.aspx So, the standard for unit camping for Webelos is 1:1. If this event is a Council organized Camping Opportunity, then the Leaders Guide or other program materials probably should refer back to this. OTOH, if this even is a Council operated Camp, then the Leader's Guide will probably have different guidance on the adult/youth ratio. So, I ask WestCoast Scouter, what do the program materials for this event say?(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

There are some requirements which are truly "complete the event," such as for 2d Class: Participate in an approved (minimum of one hour)service project. Or, for 1st Class, requirement 4c: On one campout, serve as your patrol's cook. Supervise your assistant(s) in using a stove or building a cooking fire. Prepare the breakfast, lunch, and dinner planned in require- ment 4a. Lead your patrol in saying grace at the meals and supervise cleanup. Knowing which requirements are "performs" with a final end component, and being able to differentiate them from "building blocks" which are increments of skill knowledge, is part of what a SM has to impart to his ASMs, SPL, ASPL, and PLs.

I would ask: What does YOUR Council's Webelos Camp Program Guide and Leaders Guide say? If it says 1:1, then that's what it is. If it says something else, then that's what it is, and the Pack makes the decisions on unit leadership for camp. From my experience, the Pack is going to call on most Webelos parents to spend at least one night out as part of the leadership. What concerns me more is "Webelos-ree." This to me is not a resident camp organized by the Council, but rather a large camp-out, a la Camporee for Boy Scouts. In that case, I'd expect to see a comment in the leaders guide such as: "Adult Supervision: The rules of the Guide to Safe Scouting apply to this event. 1 to 1 parent to child adult supervision is the general rule." OR: "Adult Supervision: This is being conducted as a resident camp under the auspices of XXX Council, Boy Scouts of America. The minimum acceptable leadership ratio is 1 leader to every four Webelos, with an absolute minimum of two leaders to comply with two-deep leadership." Time for some reading WestCoast

Put this on your Chartered Partner's letterhead and insert the following sentence: "Cub Scout Pack XXXX, chartered to XYZ Non-Profit, SOmewhere, ST, in the Blankety Council, BSA, serves to provide whole person growth and development of young boys 7-11 years old. In doing so, Pack XXXX follows the purposes and methods of Cub Scouting as defined by the Boy Scouts of America:" Then insert the words from the purposes and methods page verbatim: http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/CubScouts/Parents/About/pandm.aspx Purposes and Methods of Cub Scouting Cub Scouting is a year-round family-oriented part of the BSA program designed for boys who are in first through fifth grades (or are 7, 8, 9, and 10 years of age). Parents, leaders, and organizations work together to achieve the 10 purposes of Cub Scouting: 1. Character Development 2. Spiritual Growth 3. Good Citizenship 4. Sportsmanship and Fitness 5. Family Understanding 6. Respectful Relationships 7. Personal Achievement 8. Friendly Service 9. Fun and Adventure 10. Preparation for Boy Scouts All the activities leaders plan and boys enjoy should relate to one or more of these purposes. These purposes help us achieve the overall aims of the BSA of character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness. The Methods of Cub Scouting Cub Scouting uses seven specific methods to achieve Scouting's aims of helping boys and young adults build character, train in the responsibilities of citizenship, and develop personal fitness. These methods are incorporated into all aspects of the program. Through these methods, Cub Scouting happens in the lives of boys and their families. 1. The Ideals The Cub Scout Promise, the Law of the Pack, the Tiger Cub motto and Promise, and the Cub Scout sign, handshake, motto, and salute all teach good citizenship and contribute to a boy's sense of belonging. 2. The Den Boys like to belong to a group. The den is the place where boys learn new skills and develop interests in new things. They have fun in den meetings, during indoor and outdoor activities, and on field trips. As part of a small group of six to eight boys, they are able to learn sportsmanship and good citizenship. They learn how to get along with others. They learn how to do their best, not just for themselves but also for the den. 3. Advancement Recognition is important to boys. The advancement plan provides fun for the boys, gives them a sense of personal achievement as they earn badges, and strengthens family understanding as adult family members work with boys on advancement projects. 4. Family Involvement Family involvement is an essential part of Cub Scouting. When we speak of parents or families, we are not referring to any particular family structure. Some boys live with two parents, some live with one parent, some have foster parents, and some live with other relatives or guardians. Whoever a boy calls his family is his family in Cub Scouting. 5. Activities In Cub Scouting, boys participate in a wide variety of den and pack activities, such as games, projects, skits, stunts, songs, outdoor activities, and trips. Also, the Cub Scout Academics and Sports program and Cub Scouting's BSA Family program include activities that encourage personal achievement and family involvement. 6. Home and Neighborhood Centered Cub Scouting meetings and activities happen in urban areas, in rural communities, in large cities, in small townswherever boys live. 7. The Uniform The Tiger Cub, Cub Scout, and Webelos Scout uniforms help build pride, loyalty, and self-respect. Wearing the uniform to all den and pack meetings and activities also encourages a neat appearance, a sense of belonging, and good behavior. Have the COR, CC and yourself sign it.

In all of this, remember the youth!! -- Your SPL, ASPLs, and Guides are going to need more, not less, quiet time with you. This will be a challenge to them, and they can make or break the new Scouts experience. -- Your SPL needs to spend quality time with each patrol leader, helping the PL to be independent! -- Your Scoutmaster Minutes need to go back to basics, and they may need to focus on living in a community. Your current ASM's are going to be busy as well, and you have to keep an eye on them, that they are supporting your vision and goals, even as the Troop grows. Your CC and Advancement guy need to understand at this unit size, you may well have BORs running weekly. I wish you great success.

Hi David, Welcome to the Forums. You are either in the Western Los Angeles Council: http://bsa-la.org/ . The Council offices are on Sherman Way in Van Nuys: they are just west of the tunnel under the runway at Van Nuys Airport. Or You are in the Verdugo Hills Council: http://www.vhcbsa.org/ . Their offices are 1325 Grandview Avenue, Glendale, California 91201. May I recommend you determine which council you're in, call your District Executive, and get contact info for your District Commissioner. Work with him to develop a plan to attract youth. It'd be nice if some older Boy Scouts, more interested in sports than camping, were willing to migrate to your Team. Getting publicity into the local school papers and into the local newspapers (Does the Valley News and Green Sheet even still exist?) to help. Ping Trevorum: Ready to decamp TX and return to LA? I have my moments... (Trevorum and I both grew up in the San Fernando Valley Council, now part of Western LA...)

SctDad, The HVAC fee is not acceptable. The obligation is there. Your Chartered Partner needs to live up to obligations. I will defer to folks like Beavah on the nature of the charter relationship between Council and partner, but it is more than an informal hanshake.

Basementdweller, I suggest you call your DE and ask for your District Commissioner's contact info. THEN, I suggest you call him for a friendly cup of coffee. Ask him to bring along the person assigned your unit as well. You are right, an invisible commissioner is a useless commissioner. I have forgotten, though... Are you cuurently the program guy, CC, or the COR?

Gutterbird, Every Pack, Troop, Team and Crew in Scouting has a Unit Commissioner. If there is not a UC assigned, your Commissioner is the District or the Council Commissioner. Contact your DE and ask for contact info. Then, contact your DC/CC and ask them for support. It sounds to me like you need a trio: Your DE, your Commissioner, and yourself, to pay a business call on your IH/COR. This is one of the things Professionals are supposed to do in due course, but oft-times... they don't. Your requests for help to get routine business into the church bulletin are not over the top, but the chartered partner has to be willing to play. Let the DE and the Commish do the talking, up to the point where you as the CC say: We want a good and solid working relationship with you! Then close the deal. Now, if they are not willing to play, someone other than you needs to help guide them down a trail that leads to release of unit number, history, equipment, and funds. If they decide to retain the equipment and charter Camp Fire instead, well, you're out all the equipment. If they decide to ask you to turn in the unit treasury, well, you'll find out how valid Scout Accounts really are ... NOT. SctDad: A chartered partner can say to youth and adult members: "We are dissolving our association with BSA. We are retaining our property (unit equipment) and our funds (Troop treasury). You are free to find new units." They can also dismiss one Scouter or the whole bunch. Hopefully, they do not do this on a whim, but it's in their rights. Also, $50 a meeting? That is in direct contravention of the Charter Agreement. One of the Partner's duties is to provide meeting space. You need to get ahold of your unit commissioner (see above if needed) and have a business conversation with your IH and COR. I wish you all well.

Let me start by asking a question: What do YOU think your chartered partner is not doing, according to the annual charter agreement? I will say this: Subject to your States' laws, your unit is wholly owned by the Chartered Partner. They can release the members ... and choose to keep the unit number/affiliation, the equipment, and the funds. So... I've asked the question. I will ask two other questions: How did you invite your IH/COR to attend? Letters, email, personal visit? Have you talked with your unit commissioner about this? BTW, here is a copy of a Charter Agreement: They are easily google-able... www.scccbsa.org/files/2006_Rechartering_AnnualCharterAgreement.pdf Not the latest, but close enough for our purposes here.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Of course, if the deal isn't sealed, Philadelphia is back to being on the hook for cash legal fees...

I earned the rank of Life Scout as a youth. Want to know something? I do not remember a single BOR. Now, the first time I shot a .22? Yes. The Mile Swim, yes. Backpacking in the Sierra Nevada, yes. My Ordeal? Yes. Not a single BOR. T-2-1? No reason, but I'd like the youth being on the Board to be Life or Eagle, and have learned a thing or two on the trail. S-L-E? Nope. Palms? Palms to me are a different Board. They should be about how the Scout is giving back, and about how he wants to consider his future...

Mike, What you just said is disturbing indeed. You've shown a big caution signal. Invite your Unit Commissioner to your next Committee meeting. As part of your scoutmaster report, have him talk about the model Board of Review, including when matters go awry. I often advocate the SPL attend Committee and render the program elements of the SM report. This is a time NOT to do that, indeed, keeping youth far away from this Committee meeting sounds prudent to me

Clemlaw, Back in the day... When I took Atomic Energy, it WAS a district-wide thing, because we had a Rockwell International nuclear facility near where I lived. The GM and the engineers on site came together to provide the resources ... which were not readily available to the community. There was round-robin work, because I think about 200 Scouts in the District took advantage of the opportunity. At the end of the day, though, we worked 1/1 with a professional as we presented our models of reactors, and our understandings of theory, and... I tell counselors when I train them that they have self-selected themselves because of special skill. I often ask if there's anyone who feels they're not qualified for a badge. A couple times I've heard public tales of units which push Mrs Smith to cover down on X, when she doesn't know diddly. More often they approach me privately. I tell them if they're not comfortable with the material, don't counsel the badge. Beavah: Thanks. As always, you can take my frustration and tone it down a notch, while communicating the message.

A further point: Merit Badge Counselors, IMO, should use, in order: - The www.scouting.org website. Requirements and resources for MBs for you to be sure you are on track with the program. - The www.usscouts.org website. Many volunteers cross-walk the badges, edition to edition. Very useful when Billy shows up with an old edition of a MB Pamphlet, thus has the wrong requirements. - Never ever use meritbadge.com. From experience, the guy became unreliable a few years back. I no longer trust this site at all.

Shouting!!!! RANT! WHY DO YOU WANT TO SUBJECT YOUR YOUNG CHARGES TO SCHOOL???!!!???!!!??? Dammit. Talk with your young charges. WORK with them. They are taking the merit badge to discover a new skill, perhaps even their lives' work. Why in the Sam Hill do you force them to treat YOUR SUBJECT, that YOU SHOULD CARE PASSIONATELY ABOUT, like 6th grade Math??? THAT IS WHAT YOU DO WHEN YOU MAKE THEM USE WORKSHEETS! Now, there are a few times where a Scout will best use writing his information down as a learning tool. Generally, that is part of the requirment for a badge, to wit, Environmental Science Requirement 1: "Make a time line of the history of environmental science in America. Identify the contribution made by the Boy Scouts of America to environmental science. Include dates, names of people or organizations, and important events." http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges/mb-ENVS.aspx Get off your leaden behinds. Work with your youth. Hands on is far better than writing. Photos are far better than writing. Helping a young man learn to work his brain and recall information directly is far better than writing. MERIT BADGE COUNSELORS ARE PART OF THE GAME WITH A PURPOSE! If you don't care passionately about the subject, and want to teach school, may I suggest you drop your MB Counselor status and go and get your teaching credential? You are coaches and mentors in a 2-3 to 1 environment, not a deliverer of information in bulk at 15, 20, or 30 to 1. Twocubdad is spot on. Engage your youth in eye-contact based conversation. Work with them hands-on at the machine for those / Rant(This message has been edited by John-in-Kc)

INVITE THEM TO PINEWOOD DERBY! Have both finished cars at kits at deep discounts available for sale. SHOW THAT CUB SCOUTS IS FUN!!!