hotdesk

I guess I should've explained that this is just MY PERSONAL GEAR. I didn't include any of the troop gear (each crew will have six people in it. 3 Scouts and 3 adults with two total crews going up and going is seperate directions) because I don't have to pack it in my backpack. Like I said for the bug spray I have the one fluid ounce of the 100% DEET. One application last ten hours (so one day). I think, but not sure, that the one ounce should last the seven days. I don't think it'll take that much more. But am I wrong??? As far as sun block I have some SPF 45 which is suppose to be both waterproof and sweatproof. I need to find something else to put it into because I have a hugh bottle of it. Each group will have at least two water pump puriferis and each person is expected to bring one full water bottle to start the trip. So I'll have a little bit more than the Nalgin water bottle amount. Each group will bring up one or two stoves. Plenty of fuel. Not a concern of mine. Each canoe will be equiped with a "bail" kit. It will have a empty pop bottle with rope attached to it incase you need to throw it to someone. Also in the kit will be a peanut sponge. As far as fishing goes I have plenty of stuff. The adults that have been up their before gave us some advice and I followed it. The food is my lunch for seven days. Some extra snacks, I hope and think, are packed in there. This is just my lunch. The dinners will be dehydrated stuff with fish planned for one meal toward the end of the trip. Breakfast will be mostly Sweet Morning and then a few meals with eggs and sausage. More advice??? Oh another question, what's the duck tape for??? We've had some bad experiences with duck tape in our troop. Won't get into that here, but as long as I can explain the purpose for bringing duck tape.

Okay, here it is, my pack list. I have all this stuff packed in my backpack and want to know what I should take out and leave at home or add before it's too late. We are going to leave on August 5 and return on August 14 (so we are going to canoe from the 6th of August until about lunch time on the 14th.) Gloves for Paddling AA Flashlight 1 FL oz. of 100% Deet bugspray First Aid Kit Mole Skin 6 band-aids 3 alcohol pads bacitracin zinc ointment 12 advil pills Tackle Box Jiggs artifical "minnows" to put on jiggs steel leads 1 lure fish stringer fish pliers 1 bobber pocketknife 27 EXP Waterproof Camera Small pot from my mess kit Cup from my mess kit 1 spoon Personal Kit Hand Towel Toilet Paper Toothpaste & Toothbrush (travel size) Shampoo and Body Wash (travel size) Deordiant (trial size) Nylon Rope Bandanas (2) Sleeping Bag (20 Rating) Foam Sleeping Pad Water Shoes (Tye Up) Tennis Shoes Food Chicken Ramen Noodle Soup Beef Ramen Noddle Soup 3 3oz Bags of Albacore Tuna 1 3oz Bag of Pink Salmon 1 5oz Bag of Hickory Smoked Tuna Steak Tips 24 Flour Tortillas Squeeze Tube of Peanut Butter (9oz) 6 Peanut Butter Cracker Packs 7 Fun Size Snickers Rain Gear Swim Trunks (1 Pair) BSA Shorts (1 Pair) 1 Short Sleeve Shirt 1 Long Sleeve Shirt Long Underwear (Shirt & Pants) Fleece Jacket 3 underwear 1 complete pair of hiking socks 2 pairs of cotten socks (Plus the pair of clothes that I will be wearing already) Have at it!!! Help me determine what to leave at home or what to add to my pack. I leave Thursday so time is important!!! Have Fun!!!

The first thing I would do is talk to the scouts that were involved. I would talk to the "victim" the SPL, and the ASPL (since he is the one that stopped it). I would find out exactly what happended. The next thing I would do is work with the Patrol Leader's Council to establish a way to make sure that this does not happen again. I would then determine if it was neccessary to replace the current Senior Patrol Leader. I would take input from the PLC, but the final decision would be mine. However, if I replaced the SPL I would leave it up to the PLC to determine who would take over. I would give them a couple of options like the ASPL, another past SPL, or a new election. Sometime during this, probably between the first and second paragraph, I would inform the Troop Committee what is going on. I would also inform them that the issue is taken care of and what the next course of action is. I would stress to the Troop Committee that the scout does not need to punished by them. However, all this could change depending on how the SPL feels and/or reacts to my discussion with him about the issue. If he didn't feel any regret I would inform the Troop Committee that action needs to be taken. I would then work with the PLC to replace the SPL and come up with some ways to prevent this in the future.

Two important positions should be used when dealing with new scouts. The first should be a Troop Guide. The Guide should work with the new scouts for at least six months to make sure they understand the program, have fun, and that the Patrol Leader has the tools neccessary to run his patrol. The other position is an Assistant Scoutmaster that is the director of the New Scout Program. It should be their responsiblity to make sure that the scout's parents understand the program and answer their questions. As far as leadership goes at Summer Camp it is understandable for each one to have some kind of responsiblity. However, if each one is given a responsiblity it should be something that they can manage and that they can do. More important jobs should be left to Assistant Scoutmasters and the Scoutmaster and then what ever parents you have can handle smaller issues. As far as the troop paying for the parent I can understand. Our troop has paid for parents to go. We started this partice the year after we couldn't go to Summer Camp because we didn't have enough adults. However, during the rest of the year parents kinda of earn the right to get paid for by helping with some misc. Troop Committee job or by helping at one of our many fundraisers. One of them is County Fair Parking, which brings in over $2,000, where adults are asked to work at least two shifts. However, as far as paying right out for the scout to go I don't agree with. He have a scout whose parents are in the same crowd but we stilled required the scout to "earn" money. He will eventually end up paying because money will go into his scout account from the fundraisers he will work. Plus he had an adult leader who past away at the age of 50 and his memorial was set up with the troop. The money that came in was marked for a Campership by the family request.(This message has been edited by hotdesk)

More questions for me to answer. OldGrayEagle wants me to provide more information about this beating. Well the Senior Patrol Leader grabbed a chair and started hitting the scout in the head and legs before the Assistant Senior Patrol could stop it. Acco40 wants to know about nominations. Well in our troop a scout needs to be nominated by another scout in our troop. Lets say Jon wants to run then Jon needs to find somebody like Don to nominate him. Acco40 also mentioned selecting the ASPL. Well our troop allows the SPL to pick any scout he wants to be his ASPL. Therefore, in our troop we should always have a good ASPL-SPL connection. However, for whatever reason, the SPL picked this person. He also mentioned the SM Handbook. I do have access to this. I have read it from front to back a couple different times. Remember my dad is the Scoutmaster. EagleDad wants to know how the scout feels about what happened to the other scout. Well I don't think he believes it was as bad as it actually turned out to be. I believe that, by riding with him on the ride home, that he doesn't feel remourse. He also talked about the maturity level of the troop. The troop is has had Senior Patrol Leaders who haven't needed that much assistance because of their backgrounds in scouting and other programs. The SPLs of the past have been guys who guy look at what current decision will mean for the future of the troop and then decide what to do. They have been mostly 15-16 years of age. They have ran efficent Patrol Leader Council meetings and executed a successful annual program which has seen between 9-12 new scouts each year since we started a Boy Ran Troop (we used to be lucky to get more than 3 or 4).

I do need to add something that has not been put in yet. Seeing this at Summer Camp was hard for me. It has hard for me to believe and hard for me manage with. Why you might ask? The reason is simple. I was the one person who approached the scout about running. I told him that I thought he would do a great job and that I thought he was ready. He agreed and I nominated him. You might ask what was I doing asking a scout to run. Well that's simple also. The past Senior Patrol Leaders (we have only had a Boy Ran Troop for about 2 1/2 years so have only had 3 SPLs before this one) and decide on who would be the best for the troop. Well this time this kid's name came up. Nobody had noticed problems with him before. He was helpful as a ASPL, represented his patrol well as a Patrol Leader, and was the first scout to make an improvement with the equipment we had. He attended meetings, went beyond the expected call for Service Hours, and attended a majority of the campouts. This kid seemed ready. He seemed mature and he seemed capable. Another question I have is does anyone else believe that this could be a problem with him being mature or not??? If it does is 13 and younger just too young to run a troop??? Should a Scout be older??? However, still this kid has reached Life. He is only a project away from Earning his Eagle Rank. Shouldn't something have clicked by now???

I'm going to try and answer the questions that have been asked. Acco40 asked about the ASPL. The ASPL is a scout who ran against the SPL and lost the election, but not by many votes. The SPL and ASPL do not exactly make a point to talk and work together, as we have seen our SPL not at some meetings and the ASPL does not know what the plan is. Eamonn asked about Council JLT. The scout has not taken Council JLT. He simply worked his way up through different positions with the troop. Some problems I have with the advice given is that most of it calls for punishment. Our troop is a believer that harsh punishment (suspensions, "kicking" out a scout, etc.) are not needed. We tend to gear toward other "punishment" and try to make policies that will prevent the problem in the future. Do you guys have any ideas??? Suggestions for the Scoutmaster or Troop Committee. And many of you seem to suggest that the Scoutmaster must not be working with the scout. That is simply not true. He has tried to teach leadership and has tried to give guidance, but like I said the scout simply doesn't take it and goes toward more immature things like beating the scout with a chair. For Acco40 I do know, for a fact, the the current SPL feels that he was roped into and feels that he is not ready. He didn't make this known until about a month or two after trying the job. Eamonn from what I saw with my own eyes is that the SPL told the scout to get up and he didn't. Instead of trying again he got upset and started beating him. However, as soon as it started it was stopped by the Assistant Senior Patrol Leader. I do feel that maybe you hit it head on and that he may not have been ready for this position. He may have gotten in over his head and may have not been the guy for this job. (This message has been edited by hotdesk)

We have a patrol made up of the older members of the troop. During troop meetings the Senior Patrol Leader, Assistant Senior Patrol Leader, Troop Guides, and Jr. Assistant Scoutmasters are part of a different patrol called the Jr. Leadership Corps. Basically they aren't a patrol, but on the roster they are. During campouts the Jr. Leadership Corps and the Older Scout Patrol (mostly made up of scouts who are Star and up) are one of the same.

I am the Jr. Asst. Scoutmaster and my father is the Scoutmaster of the troop.

The troop elects the Senior Patrol Leader every six months. The troop doesn't have any certain standards or requirements, but usually scouts that have been to the Council JLT or have worked their way up the leadership ladder run. Back in March however a scout who worked his way up the leadership ladder (was a Asst. Patrol Leader, Quatermaster, Patrol Leader, and Assistant Senio Patrol Leader) was asked to run and he agreeded. Well he wasn't as ready or prepared to do the job as everyone thought. The Assistant Senior Patrol, Scoutmaster, and Jr. Assistant Scoutmaster have all tried to give him advice and guide him to do a better job, but it hasn't worked. He just won't listen. He acts very immature and just isn't handling the job very well at all. Well at Summer Camp this past week things got a little out of hand. His leadership techniques were very poor. A few examples include pushing scouts to get them in straight lines and beating a kid with a chair to get him up. He was told both times to stop and he just didn't. What would you do??? This kid is a GOOD KID, their is no such thing as a BAD KID. Kids marked BAD are just kids who people don't want to work with or just are misunderstood. But even if their were bad kids this is not one of them. However, how do you get through to him??? Do you set up future requirements to become a Senior Patrol Leader??? Any advice would be helpful.

Let me answer this question as a scout. The reason that some scouts do not take care of their personal equipment is because they don't take pride/sense of ownership in it. Part of it has to do with being plain lazy (which has been promoted by video games and the internet) and some of it has to do with them not spending their own money on the equipment (or having to earn it another way). I bet you if they took their CD Player or GameBoy with them though, they would take ownership in that. The reason that some parents don't do it is because they don't realize that it is a solution. Only those who have been camping would realize how easy it is to loose equipment. A solution: Tell them to do it. Schools do it on their equipment lists and it usually tends to work.

My dad is the Scoutmaster of the troop I'm in. However, if we were in your troop, and they used the same guidelines for everyone, I would never be able to advance. I for one find that to be nothing but holding your son back just because he is who he is. I hope that your town has other scout troops that don't have leaders who are a bunch of not nice people and that your son has friends in one of these troops. If their is a troop like that go there. You, your husband, and most importantly your son do not need this and do not deserve it. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Sorry about this. I was trying to look at the forum, but it wasn't showing. I figured putting a message up might help me see the board.

As a Chapter Chief I must say that our Guide Books say that only adults that can be of help to the lodge/chapter shold be elected. In my mind if the Adult is doing anything from encouring scouts in his troop to go to OA functions to being a Advisor they are doing their job. All help from adults is welcome.

As a Chapter Chief I'm going to try and answer the first question. I would not wear the Order of the Arrow Sash to either event. The Order of the Arrow Sash should be worn only to represent the Order of the Arrow. It is correct to wear it to Order of the Arrow Events such as meetings, Unit Elections & Promotions, Ceremonies, etc. In my mind it should not be worn during troop activities wear the Order of the Arrow is not meant to be directly represented. However, as an Order of the Arrow member he should also live with a Cheerful & helpful attitude. As far as washing the sash I would say it is a go. If it has a stain put some oxidizing agent on it. Then throw it in with some whites and follow the directions set on your washer. DO NOT USE BLEACH!!!

I'm a scout in a troop that is going to Ely, Minn. to canoe. I have a few questions that I would like some advice on and I feel that some of you would be great resources. My questions are as followed: What would you bring as far as personal (1 person) lunches go? (Give me some specific ideas) What type of personal equipment would you bring? (Again be specific) What would you bring for fishing? What would you do to prepare yourself? What are some of your experiences up there? If you could please help a scout out, it would be apperciated. Either answer the questions here or email answers to wmckay06@hotmail.com. Please do not PM me as I no longer have the email address listed. Thanks, A follow scout

Rather or not you think your troop uses a permission slip, it does. The Class 1 and Class 3 both have act as a permission slip. The Class 1 Form says "I give permission for full participation in BSA programs, subject to limitations noted herein." It then goes into asking for the Signature of the Scout's parent or the adult participant. The Class 3 Form says "...I give my permission for full participation in BSA programs, subject to limitations noted herein." As for the Commitment our troop usually collects the money before the outing from the scouts going. As for actual permission the Physical Class 1 and Class 3 forms both give that. As for specificis we do handouts that give a "What to Pack List" and the details of the trip. We basically just skip the permission slip part and do the other stuff through other means.

As an older scout let me say a few things: 1. I know that our Tour Permits discuss the fact that Boy Scouts can not drive to any events unless they are Regional or National events and have their parent's permission. Then it goes on to say that Ventures can drive to any Venture Activity with their parent's permission. 2. I would like to say that it is rare, at least in our Council, to have many 17 year olds still active as scouts. Usually they get their Eagle Award and work on getting ready for college. However, we have do have some 17 year old scouts proud of their scouting background.

I have to say that it is nice to know the rules and use them. However, there are times where Unit Leaders and their respective Troop Committee need to bend or break a rule in the effort of making a better program for their scouts. That is why you have a Unit Committee to interpurt the guidelines and regulations set forth by the National Committee. I also have to say that following rules in scouting makes it safer for everyone involved in the program. Heck, for that matter following rules in anything you do makes it safer and a lot more fun for everyone. Anybody that gives Mr. White a hard time for informing us of the rules should be ashamed as he is only trying to do what he deems best. You can either follow his advice or not, but you really don't need to give him a hard time. Yours in Scouting, Mr. Jr. Assistant Scoutmaster

As a scout my concern is if the boys are leading or the adults. Is the SPL doing his outlined job or is he sitting as a puppet for the committee/Scoutmaster to use? If the boys are getting to do there jobs and not have an adult do them for them then I don't think the selection process is a thing to highly be concerned about.

TO All: I am a Jr. Assistant Scoutmaster who was recently given the responsiblity of being the Assistant Scoutmaster for the troop's New Scout Patrol(s). I know what the purpose of the new scout patrol is and I know some of the downfalls that can occur, but I still have some questions (I have read the Scoutmaster Handbook, the old copy of the Jr. Leaders Handbook, and look on the web a lot). 1. How do you get the differences between the Pack and Troop across to parents and new scouts? 2. How do you switch the patrol leaders every month. (Basically how do you decide who is it?) 3. What type of things to you do to help the Troop Guide do his job and what exactly is his job? 4. Any other hints that you have would be appreciated. Thanks, Hotdesk

Laura You called the last election a popularity contest. Is it a possiblity that the boys in the patrol saw something about the people running that you, an adult leader, didn't see? Could they have possibly been more attentive, since they only have to focus on there patrol, whereas you should be looking at all the patrols? Could they had picked the scout that they thought would do the best job even though you didn't think the same? Is it possible that different people have different thoughts and points of view?

Greetings. As a JASM I haven't had many chances to actually plan all the aspects of a trip. I have had my say, as SPL, in a few, and planned a 'for fun' campout, but never a High Adventure Winter Wilderness Survival campout. So far I have came up with a program and ran it past some of the Adult ASMs. They all thought that it was good, but I haven't talked to any Patrol Leaders in depth about it. So I don't know how good it actually is. So far I have planned that we will build our own shelters to sleep in, bring a limited equipment, and work on the Wilderness Survival Merit Badge. I want it to be an actualy low inpact camping trip, which our troop hardly does. Any input would be widly accepted. PS: If this is hard to read or understand, sorry. I have a lot on my mind and tried my best to write this out.

Okay, I know that this may seem stupid, but since there are no stupid questions I will ask. What do most scouts wear to an OA Chapter meeting besides the OA Sash and tan shirt? Basically I mean pants and etc.

Okay, just got a few things to say real quick. 1. I, as the 'troop coordinator for funerals' have decided upon the following uniform based on the troop uniform policy. BSA Tan Shirt BSA Merit Badge Sash Black Dress Pants Dress Shoes 2. Unfornutly, our troop has had about three funerals to do in the past year. He had the Executive Chief of our troop's father, an Asst. Scoutmaster who past away after a battle with a brain tumor, and now this one. The only reason that I have posed this topic is that at each funeral we have had a dispute on if Sashes were correct or not. It was myself, some of the scouts, and a few adults saying no and some adults saying yes. So since the decision was left up to me since I got everyone together and was the SPL I said no since not everyone had them with. I figured that if I asked you guys I would be able to get the best uniform out of the guys and show the we have learnt from the last two funerals. Thanks, hotdesk