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You can have a 100% Baptist unit - just only accept Scouts from your congregation. Then in addition to the Oath and Law, you could focus on the Baptist flavor of Christianity.

I second Tahawk. I have talked to local gear outfitters about getting registered as counselors to increase their business. This is effectively what the BSA has done with its PADI relationship for SCUBA merit badge - opens up SCUBA to Scouts, but requires a Dive Instructor who doesn't work for free in most cases (unless you are fortunate to have one willing to work for the Scouts on the side).

Thinking of badges that require professional certification or equivalency to be done right:

Aviation

Kayaking

White Water

SCUBA

What I have seen:

Den bridges over to an assigned Patrol Leader for the first 6 months. Said Patrol Leader is often someone who is First Class and ready to take on a team. That provides the leadership. VERY dependent on the initial assigned PL.

A good Troop Guide can be added to supplement, or instead of the assigned PL.

Scoutmaster stepping in more than usually desired. I held a small Patrol meeting where the Patrol was not following their elected leader. I told them, "You elected him. It is your obligation to show the respect you initially gave him when you elected him." This message is partially successful - not 100%, but it reminds boys of their obligations as followers as well as leaders - a good lesson I find necessary to teach annually at least.

 

Something like that addresses my main concern with apps: They don't foster learning, they simply fuel "hm" moments. The second the phone goes back into a pocket, the user is ignorant again, and as long as the phone is there, the person has no incentive to become knowledgeable. For me, that's just as much an issue for adults as youth--we can't teach things we don't know, and pulling out a smartphone and pointing it at the sky isn't teaching astronomy, it's teaching how to use an app and kids already know how to do that--these things are literally designed for any moron to be able to use.

Is YouTube, etc useful as a reference? Yes. In the field? No. For the life of me, I never could figure out how to do the floor lashing. I looked it up on YouTube and immediately felt like an idiot, but frankly the drawing in the book is no good. When did I do that? At my house before I needed to know how, not out in the hinterland. The field is the place for knowledge.

Snapping a photo of a leaf and having a phone spit the ID back at you is not learning, identifying the distinguishing features of a leaf and then using them to identify the plant is learning.

 

Perdidochas hypothesizes that this question probably hinges on personal use, I tend to agree. Because the people who use the phones prefer the quick, hollow method of looking things up over and over again for 5 seconds each time rather than the labor-intensive approach of gaining knowledge, and if they can't use their phone, they can't teach what they don't know.

 

As far as allowing phones so you can teach them how to handle incoming calls and messages in a meeting, the answer is to turn off the sound and ignore them, so there's no reason to allow them.

Reading is a form of learning. There is no difference between reading something\ in a book and looking it up on the phone.

Example: I want to do a random knot. The diagram in the BSA handbook is poor. I find a video (which fosters a different type of learning - visual representation). I watch it, and tie the knot.

How is that going to keep me from remembering again?

In my career, I met with the team that purchases technology for our special forces. They bought smart phone devices for them, and wrote special software that would help adjust for windage and elevation in long distance shooting. Leveraging this cheat made good snipers great, and they retained the skill AFTER the device was taken away.

Digital devices are fantastic learning tools. I could have the boys all pluck leaves and take them back home to analyze, or have the one artist draw them, or I can ID with a smartphone - plus pick up some additional information on the way.

Still plenty of risks, but your statement that the phone is only a temporary source of knowledge and leads right back to ignorance is incorrect.

My unit still prohibits, but the discussion has started. Biggest concern I have is the homesickness issue already raised. I don't need kids calling home to get picked up. I already have challenges when kids have arranged for an early pickup, and I turn around and 3 others have loaded into the car to leave.

The rest doesn't bother me as much. Some Scout wants music at night in their tent? I don't care. If they have it out during the day - I can ask / tell them to put it away. That is easy.

I love the the star apps on my iPhone. Maybe that makes me lazy, but the full list of constellations has never been my strength, and I am learning them thanks to my phone.

I love looking up recipes if I have a decent connection as well. Helps inspire some cooking with the Scouts.

I was looking up a couple of questions when teaching Cit Nation one campout - I wasn't sure, and the book was limited in information. A quick wikipedia check helped me out.

So there is value in the amount of information accessible from a small device - and there are risks too. I think the benefit outweighs the risk - but I will let the PLC make the first proposal.

I have a Troop with similar characteristics. My most religious scouts are a few from a local Baptist / Evangelical congregation, a Hindu Scout, and a Jewish Scout (Reform I think). I grew up CBD (Christian By Default) - my parents did not attend church, but expressed a belief in a higher power in general. In high school I was prayed for due to my belief in evolution. In college I was baptized after joining my fiancee's church (PCUSA), where I now serve as a Deacon at times.

So I love it when Scouts tell me that they believe in something, but they are not sure what. I ask them questions, and I ask them to tell me of their faith and what it means. I encourage them to talk to their parents, and educate me instead. I have been having these conversations with Scouts for years, some of the best have been on the trail.

From that, I have 3 times been asked to write the religious letter for an Eagle candidate. As one Scout said, "I had my best conversations about faith with you. Will you write a letter for me?"

So see this as a challenge to understand them more, and learn more about other faiths. You can be Reverent and learn from them, which will help them express their faith a bit as well.

May be... but anyone who's tried to matriculate a kid into college lately will soon learn that a "B" on the transcript is an "F" ... and Eagle counts for nothing in your average admissions office.

Eagle counts for a point. Senior Patrol leader is known as the head of the club - at least at the local university (my wife was a faculty rep on the admissions requirements team).

It is true a B is an F for top schools today as well. However - the stress, anxiety, etc. that is being push on kids is insane.

Since we all battle how to keep boys engaged, while going head-to-head with other, competing interests - I thought I would share this research from Stanford:

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2014/march/too-much-homework-031014.html

[h=1]Stanford research shows pitfalls of homework[/h] A Stanford researcher found that students in high-achieving communities who spend too much time on homework experience more stress, physical health problems, a lack of balance and even alienation from society. More than two hours of homework a night may be counterproductive, according to the study.

I just put together a board with a mounted pole on it. It is marked with all of the knots on the Trail to First class: Square, 2 Half Hitches, Taut Line Hitch, Bowline, Timber Hitch, Clove Hitch.

I set up a cracker barrel on the campout out of my pocket, and anyone who wants the grub just has to tie all of the knots and they can come on in. It has increased use of the knots, and the board comes out at meetings too. Next step is a competition for time to tie all 6, with rankings and some sort of a reward.

We run a couple of campouts without tents - we bring tarps, poles and ropes and everyone builds their own shelters. We make it fun, and I include myself in the competition as well. Thinking of doing a plains tribe teepee this year using bamboo poles and a oversized tarp I have sitting around.

Adults as their own patrol. Help keep the helicopters grounded as well as they do dishes and cook!

Food is by the Patrol - so no concern. Only issue is seat belts and enough tents packed. I HATE to keep a boy from an outing if I can.

That said, I am considering proposing to our Troop that Patrols be responsible for their own drivers, and that the Troop get out of the business of providing seat belts.

Want to say thanks for this old thread. Trying to figure out this little bit - dump the slices of break was my mistake (I KNEW that pie was good).

If you want to change a rule, it usually helps to find out why the rule exists in the first place. In your first post you mention the Kabar knife.

I carried one of those. In the Marine Corps. They are a tactical knife designed for fighting, with the addition of a place to cut barbed wire. Those are exactly the knives I am talking about triggering these rules - boys walking around with a kabar on their waist in a sheath.

Your later post talked about a switchblade - those are illegal in most places, and have been for quite some time. You can add in gravity knives, double sided blades, and gravity knives as well as legally problematic knives in most jurisdictions.

If you want to convince the Troop leadership, then work on educating them on the positive side of sheath knives - and propose an amendment to the rule. I personally agree with you on the benefit of a good sheath knife, and I have carried a Buck since I was a Tenderfoot, and bought one for my son when we joined Scouting. Then I ran into a the Troop's rule (and the rule of most of the local summer camps), tried to fight it, and lost.

Talk safety.

Talk utility

Talk about the problems with many pocket knives (locking blades are safer, but little ones don't have the strength for the lock for example)

Talk about carrying safely (I HAVE had the sheath dig into me on a fall, something that never happens with a folding knife).

Education of whoever owns the rules, and then of the boys, is your path to acceptance.

JASM in our troop tends to be "emeritus" status for former SPLs/Eagles still active in the troop who still want to be active and contribute. I try to treat them as -- surprisingly -- as junior Scoutmasters and give them mentoring responsibilities along the same lines as the adult ASM. Usually they choose jobs which interest them and those responsibilities at which they have excelled. The fellow who was a great Troop Guide may choose to work with the current TGs helping them plan their program with the new Scouts. Typically, I let them write their own job description.

 

From what you've written, perhaps this young man would like to work with the Chaplain's Aide? (And I understand that technically the Chaplain is supposed to be an adult, but a new troop with 11 member I also imagine you may not have every adult position filled.)

 

The goal should be to keep the older Scouts interested and engaged. One of the best ways to do that is allowing them to write their own ticket.

Now that I have posted BSA policy...

The solution that many Troops and camps adopted probably were developed when young boys decided they wanted Rambo's knife (an issue from when I was a Scout), or Crocodile Dundee's (from later in my Scouting life).

The flip side is the Bowie knife, which doubles as a hatchet and is well known as a perfectly usable tool in the backcountry. Even better, it comes from our nation's history.

Some jurisdictions have issues with knives over a certain blade length - California, for example, seems to have an issue once a knife has a blade of 4 inches in certain situations.

Start with the BSA rule:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/healthandsafety/gen_faq.aspx

[h=3]Sheath Knives[/h] Q. What is the official BSA regulation on carrying sheath knives?

A. Sheath knives are not prohibited by the BSA, but they may be regulated by state or local ordinances and/or by camp “rules.†We recommend that the right tool for the job be used (cutting branches or ropes). We do not encourage wearing them at the waist as injury could occur during falls.

and

http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2012/08/06/make-your-point-whats-your-units-knife-policy/

[h=3]Knives[/h] A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish. Since its inception, Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives.

This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature. We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility.

Rememberâ€â€knives are not allowed on school premises, nor can they be taken aboard commercial aircraft.

Your correct Huzzar sorry about that. Either way who would have excepted him of being a pedophilia? He had children and a wife he was a good family man who helped out in his community. The question is if he was a pedophilia who can you trust? That is the real danger and threat to the boys not some openly gay adult leader.

That said, my son has gone on ski trips with the gay youth minister every year since he was 13. The other adults along were a couple of moms staying in the girl's rooms. Never a concern on my part.

It National was a car dealer, their strategy could be summed up thusly:

 

Take the most popular, dependable, high-selling cars, and hide them in the back of the lot. When those are gone, don't order more. Instead, promote a lot of shiny but under-powered, undesirable cars. Act surprised when sales drop. But do nothing to bring back that popular car.

 

Outdoor adventure, whether it's a day hike on Saturday or a Philmont trek, is the key to recruiting and retaining scouts. Just as true today as it was a century ago.

 

Successful units/councils get that, and the results prove it.

 

Sustainability merit badge won't get it done.

It National was a car dealer, their strategy could be summed up thusly:

 

Take the most popular, dependable, high-selling cars, and hide them in the back of the lot. When those are gone, don't order more. Instead, promote a lot of shiny but under-powered, undesirable cars. Act surprised when sales drop. But do nothing to bring back that popular car.

 

Outdoor adventure, whether it's a day hike on Saturday or a Philmont trek, is the key to recruiting and retaining scouts. Just as true today as it was a century ago.

 

Successful units/councils get that, and the results prove it.

 

Sustainability merit badge won't get it done.

Amazing how many kids I get from that. The entire gay issue has been a distraction. For parents scared of gays, I talk to them about how we handle YPT and risk. For parents on the other side, I talk to them about how we really don't care and it just isn't an issue. Once that conversation is done, we move on and get the kids camping and hiking.

Starbash - please excuse my flippancy - I realize that you were looking for some serious insights for your son's ECOH. Congrats to your son, and may he see this is just the first few steps on the trail.

How about Tom Lehrer's Be Prepared?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSwjuz_-yao&feature=kp

You guys are so funny. The Girl Scouts and Campfire Kids took a huge hit that they have yet to recover from when they allowed gays. The Canadian Scouts are somewhere around 35 percent of what they were when they allowed gays. But the BSA's cause for the membership drop after the admission of gays is "program"? LOL

Allowing some gay scouts adds to some of that drop, but we were already dropping.

The way to fight something like this is to start looking into other organizations that discriminate. During the 80s, many campuses passed hate speech rules, then they saw those rules applied towards the various minority groups (e.g. Mecha) instead of towards the evil white boys.

If this is the California rule, then I would check to see if MECHA still has in their rules that they are for their own race. Then have every judge who is a member resign. Hunt down every single group, and then see how long it takes to change the rules to allow for free association.

Of course, it could be interesting if a judge complains about discrimination based on religion.

You guys are cracking me up, and are reflective of why the BSA is so far behind. Scouter99 seems to think that 700 records is a big deal. I had 700 individual records added to a database at work this morning, holding more information on each person than the BSA has on me.

 

Scout99 - our pants were down partially because we did NOT have a single, unified database. It was in paper files in HQ, and it was not easily cross-checked. The BSA's own system has out of data information on me - I know this because when we got the Crew going I had to correct information in the training database that was wrong. They had never required me to update my information from 10 years ago. That is a failure in the system.

 

I have walked into our Council offices and seen a stack of forms with social security numbers sitting around on a desk. That is not secure - it is the opposite.

 

Having multiple IDs for me in the system is failure.. Anyone who does any type of HR, Marketing, Sales, Customer Service software knows that you should be able to pull the complete picture of an individual from within one system.

 

Finally, AYSO has figured this out. It is not that hard to update our systems to match current technology. I am not asking for something futuristic - I am asking for something that reflects currently available technology. This would help units and the BSA.

 

But we can stick to the carbon triplicates.

 

This is not because of the 15 minutes to fill out the form (not 5 - I check with each of my references before listing them to make sure that they are OK with being a reference, I check the dates on other positions I have held and update it just in case someone might be doing their job). My complaint is that this is a bad, broken system that does not follow best practices in security, and in youth protection.

 

We can do better. Sorry that the rest of you think that this is good enough.

We already have a database of youth registration, with unique BSA identifiers

We already have a database of advancement, with unique BSA identifiers.

We already have a database of education, with unique BSA identifiers.

We already have a database of registered leaders, with unique BSA identifiers.

We already have a database of donations as well from FOS.

Background checks are done with a computer, based on information that comes FROM the paper form. That information is then entered INTO a computer for the check.

We simply need to improve this system to where it cross checks this information. This is not rocket science. Merging these systems is not that difficult. Your fear of millions of records cracks me up - I could pack all of that into my laptop and leave enough room for dutch oven recipes and pictures from Philmont.

ALL of this data already exists. It exists IN a computer. We don't need to create new data, we just need to improve the system that we are using. This is called user interface, and we can update the UI without needing to make much of a change to the underlying data model. Better yet, we could update the data model to a unified record, and then be able to make tweaks to the interface over time.

I want all this because the BSA can do better, not just because the annual rechartering, etc process is a pain at times. Your insults and attacks are un Scoutlike and uncalled for.

You guys are cracking me up, and are reflective of why the BSA is so far behind. Scouter99 seems to think that 700 records is a big deal. I had 700 individual records added to a database at work this morning, holding more information on each person than the BSA has on me.

Scout99 - our pants were down partially because we did NOT have a single, unified database. It was in paper files in HQ, and it was not easily cross-checked. The BSA's own system has out of data information on me - I know this because when we got the Crew going I had to correct information in the training database that was wrong. They had never required me to update my information from 10 years ago. That is a failure in the system.

I have walked into our Council offices and seen a stack of forms with social security numbers sitting around on a desk. That is not secure - it is the opposite.

Having multiple IDs for me in the system is failure.. Anyone who does any type of HR, Marketing, Sales, Customer Service software knows that you should be able to pull the complete picture of an individual from within one system.

Finally, AYSO has figured this out. It is not that hard to update our systems to match current technology. I am not asking for something futuristic - I am asking for something that reflects currently available technology. This would help units and the BSA.

But we can stick to the carbon triplicates.

This is not because of the 15 minutes to fill out the form (not 5 - I check with each of my references before listing them to make sure that they are OK with being a reference, I check the dates on other positions I have held and update it just in case someone might be doing their job). My complaint is that this is a bad, broken system that does not follow best practices in security, and in youth protection.

We can do better. Sorry that the rest of you think that this is good enough.