Horizon

Fred - I have never asked BSA for permission to march in a parade. We have just marched. The BSA's rules on political events are published, and clear enough. Nothing in those rules would automatically exclude a color guard at a Pride event, or the Million Man March, or the NRA national convention, or a Cinco de Mayo event run by the local MECHA chapter. As long as the boys are not used for politics, but just to serve as a color guard - it appears to be fine.

AZMike - YOU posted the photos on page 4. I never searched for them, they just appeared here on a site dedicated to Scouting. I even answered your charge, mentioning that that type of salacious display is not my first choice for wholesome family entertainment. Interestingly enough, many in the gay and lesbian community don't like that side either. It is best captured in this long-ago bit from the Onion:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/gaypride-parade-sets-mainstream-acceptance-of-gays,351/

This particular dead-horse thread topic started by complaints that the (current and former perhaps) Scouts and Scouters and uniform were in violation of our rules due to taking part in a political event. This led to some humorous exchanges where a flag ceremony at a political party national convention is NOT political, but being the lead off marchers and color guard at a Pride parade IS political.

The issue of some of the types of displays that AZMike likes to post did not show up until page 4 (or page 4 based on my settings that is).

Of course, some 4th of July Parades have this (just for equality's sake):

http://notanothernewenglandsportsblog.blogspot.com/2013/07/happy-independence-day-from-not-another.html

I do agree that the overly sexual nature of many of the marchers does make me uncomfortable. If I were marching, I would ask to be well separated from those groups (I can't tell from the pride site if that is something that they did or not). It appears that the Scouts were in the lead, following only the bikers. I could easily be wrong.

For a parade, this is the same as, regardless of their right to march, I don't want to be followed by or nearby the Klan or any other racist group at other events.

My understanding is scouts may choose and design their own neckers.

They can. Many units choose their own, and many units allow Patrols to make their own as well. Great way to show pride in your group.

Oops. I used the word pride. Can't have that.

I note the word "partisan" as well. Not sure what is partisan, other than that the Democratic Party has recently tried to jump on the bandwagon (Obama was against gay marriage before he was for it after all. Eric Holder defended DOMA, then supported gay marriage. etc).

The Boy Scouts for Equality (the name of their group per the NYC Pride page) was joined by Corporations (Wal Mart, Chipotle, Macys, Marriott, Penguin Random House), some sports leagues (soccer, rugby and softball at a glance), Religious groups ( Eastern Orthodox, A Baptists, Catholics, several Jewish groups), plus the usual politicians. The Democratic Party did appear to have more marchers - not surprised for both a gay event and one in New York City. Disappointed the Log Cabin Republicans were not there.

You can peruse the list of marching groups here: http://www.nycpride.org/uploads/OrderofMarchbySection.pdf

Civil rights is not a hot button political topic? Not familiar with something called affirmative action, are you? Martin Luther King day events are VERY political.

Apparently the immigration debate has passed you by as well, or you would realize how political a Cinco de Mayo march can get.

Finally - there is little MORE political that political party national convention.

I am not being obtuse - I am pointing out that we are happy to attack those who are in the Pride parade, based on it being gay and controversial.

I fully understand what the BSA will approve, and I doubt that Bolingbroke got more than a wink, nod and a side comment at most. After all, he was anti-Gay and that is OK in the BSA (to pull a little rhyme into this).

Seriously, obtuse? That word, it does not mean what you think it means. The obtuse ones are those that think that the only political parades are those with gays, and not national party events. THAT is being obtuse.

What I am engaged in is a bit of Socratic questioning, to help identify the real issue (is it politics, hot button issues, or just icky gay people?). That is why I ask the questions. Everyone wants to scream and throw insults instead of THINKING. Get mentally awake.

"You know that and you're being deliberately obtuse, or else you're dumb. and I say so right out because it's so annoying and tiresome."

Not exactly a Scouting response there. I was raising the issue of the grey areas between supporting a candidate, a party, etc. The BSA, in the link, above, discussed the issue of the boys doing a flag ceremony for a particular party. They are expected to leave the stage. So they can come, but they can't be seen as TOO supportive.

Once you decide to start punishing, be ready for the unintended consequences. Be ready for interpretations that you might not like. Be ready for the letter due to staying on stage too long after a flag ceremony, or for marching in the wrong parade, or for other ways of stepping over the line.

So a few Scouts marched in a pride parade. Is anybody really surprised? They did it again in New York last weekend:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/30/nyregion/boy-scouts-make-provocative-statement-at-gay-pride-parade.html?_r=0

Who determines when a parade is political or not? What is the criteria?

- Is a Columbus Day parade political? After all, that holiday was created to help curry political favor with the growing Catholic vote.

- There are many parades around Martin Luther King day - are those political? They often involve issues around Civil Rights.

- Cinco De Mayo parades here celebrate Mexican identity and culture as well - political?

Again - if we are going to punish for marching in a gay pride parade, what is the punishment for Robert Bolingbroke, Council Commissioner for the San Diego-Imperial Council? He used that title (and only that title) in his argument in favor of Proposition 8: http://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/past/2008/general/argu-rebut/argu-rebutt8.htm

He is still a Commissioner for the Council as of 2013.

In political chess, you have to think a few moves ahead or you will find yourself trapped.

If we want to get more specific around use of Scouting in politics, it will get tough. There were Boys Scouts doing the flag ceremony at the Democratic National Convention. One of the people published in the voting guide in California for Proposition 8 listed in his profile his role in the San Diego Council - would we want him tossed out?

If a Scout or Scouter wants to broadcast their membership - great! The only time to remove him or her from scouting is when they are in violation of the oath and law. Being involved in politics is not a violation of the oath and law, in my opinion. Rather - involvement in politics is encouraged by our beliefs.

So if I were using this for Cit Nation: "In the early days of the Republic, our representatives were expected to come home and that politics would not be a career, but rather a service. In addition, the worst thing to happen to American government is arguable air conditioning - it allowed the former swamp turned into Washington Dc to become habitable year-round, turning politics into a year-round endeavor. Idle hands and all that."

Council only cares if you fundraise in such a way as to decrease their ability to fundraise. Since you didn't impact FOS or large corporate James West knots, you are good. If you are really feeling guilty, donate the balance to FOS.

For driving - each Patrol is responsible for getting their Patrol to the campout, and to be picked up afterwards.

For all else - we require an adult commitment when boys register, and one adult has to register from each family as well.

The sign-off for Scout Spirit happens at the Scoutmaster Conference. I ask the boy to sign, since they know whether or not they are living by the Spirit of Oath and Law in everyday life. It usually triggers a pause while a boy thinks about the fact that they are signing their own book claiming to have lived by the Oath and Law. Makes for a great conversation, and a pause (plus a bit of poetry):

[h=2]The Guy in the Glass Poem (Man in the Mirror)[/h] When you get what you want in your struggle for pelf,

And the world makes you king for a day,

Then go to the mirror and look at yourself,

And see what that man has to say.

For it isn’t a man’s father, mother or wife,

Whose judgement upon him must pass,

The fellow whose verdict counts most in life,

Is the man staring back from the glass.

He’s the fellow to please, never mind all the rest,

For he’s with you clear to the end,

And you’ve passed your most dangerous, difficult test,

If the man in the glass is your friend.

You can fool the whole world down the pathway of years,

And get pats on the back as you pass,

But the final reward will be heartache and tears,

If you’ve cheated the man in the glass.

= Dale Wimbrow, first published in The American Magazine in 1934.

So for Citizenship in the Nation, you could go to Stonewall and learn about what led to the riots.

My Troop planted flags on Saturday, and on Sunday were part of a Memorial Day ceremony attended by several hundred folks. I tied in American Heritage MB to it, and the boys interviewed veterans who were onsite as well (nothing like letting an older vet tell stories to the boys to make both get value). Parade of flags, color guard, the whole bit.

Just read an article that reported that atheists want their own Chaplains in the military. I'm so confused. When the Chaplain "ministers" to their spiritual needs' date=' just exactly what would he/she do?[/quote']

 

That is due to the privacy a chaplain provides for counseling. If a soldier sees a therapist, it goes on their military record. If a soldier talks to their Chaplain, they can speak knowing that they won't be called in for a review based on their comments.

 

I have always wondered about how to reconcile Duty to God and my country - when Duty to God might conflict with Duty to Country.

 

 

Looks like Amato updated his research in 2001:

"

• The present study updates the P. R. Amato and B. Keith (1991) meta-analysis of children and divorce with a new analysis of 67 studies published in the 1990s. Compared with children with continuously married parents, children with divorced parents continued to score significantly lower on measures of academic achievement, conduct, psychological adjustment, self-concept, and social relations. After controlling for study characteristics. curvilinear trends with respect to decade of publication were present for academic achievement, psychological well-being, self-concept, and social relations. For these outcomes, the gap between children with divorced and married parents decreased during the 1980s and increased again during the 1990s. (PsycINFO Database Record © 2012 APA, all rights reserved)"
  

http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/fam/15/3/355/

Classic correlation vs. causation issue. One problem is that divorced families have lower economics, and having money matters (up to a point - after awhile incremental dollars don't make a difference).

A metaanalysis in 1991 found that children in single parent divorced households score lower in well being. Separating out the reason for the divorce, however, is tough to measure. I think of one couple with a Scout that are still married. They are doing a GREAT job modeling an unhappy marriage. Their daughter won't date (men are not to be trusted, and I will never allow myself to be dependent), and their son is already a wonderful flavor of misogyny (women are worthless and good for nothing but cleaning up after me). But hey, they are still together.

http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/bul/110/1/26/

"

• Meta-analysis involved 92 studies that compared children living in divorced single-parent families with children living in continuously intact families on measures of well-being. Children of divorce scored lower than children in intact families across a variety of outcomes, with the median effect size being .14 of a standard deviation. For some outcomes, methodologically sophisticated studies yielded weaker effect sizes than did other studies. In addition, for some outcomes, more recent studies yielded weaker effect sizes than did studies carried out during earlier decades. Some support was found for theoretical perspectives emphasizing parental absence and economic disadvantage, but the most consistent support was found for a family conflict perspective. (PsycINFO Database Record © 2012 APA, all rights reserved)"
  

We have a great relationship with our local elementary schools. We run the Patriot Day events every Fall, clean up after school carnivals, etc. Huge support from the Principal.

A racing backstroke has the flying arms out of the water (my younger Scout races, and that is one of his strokes). You can watch Missy Franklin win the gold here with that stroke starting at the 4:00 mark on the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm3zVaOG0x4

An resting backstroke puts the arms at the side and is more gentle (and a DQ if you try to race that way). The arms don't even break out of the water, takes little energy, etc. You can see it here: http://www.enjoy-swimming.com/elementary-backstroke.html

Some sink because they don't hold their body right - I teach the cookie method. You have a cookie at your belly button, keep it dry. This gets the boys to keep their gut dry, and to stop bending their neck to keep look at their feet.

As a cloud nut (and a guy who makes a living thanks to said cloud), you CAN encrypt and store files in the cloud with the same degree of safety. I and my company use Box, with encryption, for a variety of files. The accounting firm that I use leverages Dropbox in the same way. Neither is part of Google, so I am not concerned with Google searching those files like they might with Google Drive.

Again though, it sounds to me like the BSA is worried about HIPAA issues around having scanned medical files. Personally, I would rather have a thumb drive of the entire Troop, so that I don't have to go through the notebook when I am taking 10 backpacking instead of 50 camping. I would like to see the BSA set some guidelines for the forms to make them easier to manage electronically, especially for larger troops. Our binder is now two binders, and they tend to stay in my truck on campouts in case of emegencies.

Sounds like a HIPAA issue around security, etc. This is one of the challenges, for example, for electronic medial records in general:

Technical Safeguards

• Access Control. A covered entity must implement technical policies and procedures that allow only authorized persons to access electronic protected health information (e-PHI).²⁴
  Audit Controls. A covered entity must implement hardware, software, and/or procedural mechanisms to record and examine access and other activity in information systems that contain or use e-PHI.²⁵
  Integrity Controls. A covered entity must implement policies and procedures to ensure that e-PHI is not improperly altered or destroyed. Electronic measures must be put in place to confirm that e-PHI has not been improperly altered or destroyed.²⁶
  Transmission Security. A covered entity must implement technical security measures that guard against unauthorized access to e-PHI that is being transmitted over an electronic network.²⁷
  

 

The two are not mutually exclusive. One can "car" camp very nicely and still not have to hike to the site. One can stay at the council camp and not have to sleep in cars. Also, a good boy-led program can cut the needed number of adults down to two on any and all patrol-method outings. While my troops tend to be small, I have never had the need for more than two adults on any outing.

 

Stosh

Are your camps close enough to do a drop off and pick up? Ours are often 2+ hours away, so any adult who drives tends to stick around and camp. We try to limit adults to just those necessary to provide sufficient seat belts to and from.

The last thing you want is a police blotter about how a former Scoutmaster / child molester was arrested. That will make the news, and people will just hear "Scoutmaster" / "Child Molester" / "Scout event"

Glad people recognized him, protected the Scouts, and try to keep it quiet.

I admit that I like bringing a few fireplace matches for lighting recalcitrant stoves, or I use my Leatherman to hold a smaller match. Keeps my hands away from the fire area, and also lets me use more of the match instead of dropping it and starting anew when it burns down if there are issues.

Stosh: Some of us live where fire bans are a way of life, and gathering fuel in most parks is illegal even in the best of times. To teach cooking over a fire, we end up bringing our own wood and the patrols have to share an official fire pit to learn to cook.

Car camping: No sodas or other bottled water or drink products. Make your own with the potable water at the site. This is a Troop policy mainly around trash and LNT, plus weight. We had Scouts showing up with cases of bottled water, and multiple jugs of soda dragging down the cars and resulting in way too much trash to haul out.

Backpacking: If you want to carry it, you can have it - but only on your SECOND trek after you have proven your abilities. This was a PLC policy set after the SPL helped out a Scout (took his sleeping bag), and then the Scout pulled out two cans of Dr. Pepper at the site.

 

Yes you could, and I think some BSA Units are like that. I don't see how that really serves the boy that would benefit the most, though.

Agreed - I was submitting based on the desire to have everyone refer to Scripture to reconcile issues. If you want to reduce the interpretation issues, keep to your own congregation.

I personally don't follow that, nor would I want to - but it is an option in the BSA. You don't have to go to Trail's Life to keep theologically pure - just restrict membership to members of your COR.