Horizon

All of my Webelos end up in the same tent (I have an old 10x15 barracks room tent from REI). That reduces any discussions of who is sharing a tent, and puts them all in one place.

 

How and where parents sleep or attend - I don't care. I don't check their legal status, I just tell them that the boys should be sharing tents, and the parents should be on the other side of the campsite (might not be Kudu's 300', but at least gives us a little distance).

Interesting statistics. I decided to check my library:

1 Book of Mormon

1 sayings of Buddha

1 Qur'an

 

Harper Collins Study Bible (NRSV)

The Narrated Bible (NIV)

King James version (gift to me in elementary school)

3 other Bibles on a high shelf (one is the white one my wife walked down the aisle with, not sure about the other two).

 

So my response to the survey would mess with the data set a bit.

skeptic - PM me. Curious which unit's ceremony you will be at (in case it is the same one I am attending)

Ah - I thought it was just me. Nope - different Orange County ceremony. Mine is in Irvine. Congrats to the lad - sounds like a great project.

skeptic - PM me. Curious which unit's ceremony you will be at (in case it is the same one I am attending)

Training IF you have decent net access is pretty simple. I give a special t-shirt to any parent who does 4 training courses (Intro to Scouting, Serving on the Committee, Youth Protection and Weather). Those 4 are the required ones to be an adult on a campout as well - no parents allowed, just trained volunteers. Now IOLs could always use a tweak or two, and personally I didn't learn anything (instead I helped teach the class).

 

We offer CPR at the Troop once per year (It took one phone call to set it up).

 

Paperwork, however, is different.

 

Medical: We have solved the medical form issue by having everyone file a new set every year. We keep a set scanned, and a hard copy binder as well. That binder goes on every campout, and makes it easy for us to submit the documentation for summer camp. Parents are regularly reminded to take the forms to their doctor and keep them updated annually. So that one was solved thanks to a parent on medical form duty.

 

Auto: When parents join the Troop, we get them to submit all of their auto details. It goes into a spreadsheet, and that spreadsheet is used for the creation of tour permits. Same issue - we have the parents check their information annually.

 

Tour Permits. Those things are poorly built, and could use a revamping by a combination of risk specialists who are ALSO Scouters. It should be online, and easy to copy and paste from the spreadsheets that we keep. Luckily I have a parent who "owns" tour permits for me.

 

Now the adult applications should be online like AYSO, with the requirement for an annual update. They should also be used for multiple positions - making cross checking much more efficient and effective.

 

I do think that some "off of the books" trips happen because an opportunity comes up and the paperwork/process gets in the way. I am pretty sure I have had more than one hike and campout where the permit was sent in, but never received back. But that is also due to issues with reduced staffing and the use of volunteers checking data. Again, an online system would solve a lot of that as well.

Skeptic and TJ and packsaddle all have good points. Discussion and disagreement is good, but we also have to agree to disagree and move on.

 

I went and looked at the onmyhonor website as they had a "major" announcement today. Well, the announcement was a bust but I did look at their forums. Besides arguing over dumb stuff like what to call the equivalent to Eagle, there is a thread on membership requirements. Turns out I wouldn't be allowed to be a scoutmaster there, even though they do want to make it non-denominational. I guess we have different definitions. But I did notice an argument as to who would be allowed. One guy said Jews and Christians should be allowed but not Muslims or Buddhists. That started a fight. They've just shifted the line but they sound just the same. The point being, there will always be people that disagree and we should learn to be civil. We're all volunteers and we're all trying.

NBC News has picked up the story: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/09/19378560-faith-based-group-starting-alternative-to-boy-scouts-will-allow-gay-youth-adults?lite

BasementDweller - the ones who stick around are chasing the Eagle. Modern youth don't have the time to be dilettantes - every activity has to result in a check box for a job or a college application. My hypothesis is that we have dropped the youth that used to just come for the fun of it, regardless of advancement. On top of that, there are more materials available for a boy to pencil whip his way through a merit badge (downloadable workbooks from MeritBadge.com for example).

perdidochas - poor parsing on my part we I said "we have dropped" - I agree with you. Those Scouts who aren't chasing the Eagle lose interest and drop out on their own (or never join in the first place as you say). We then respond to our remaining customers by focusing even more on advancement, which then chases away even MORE Scouts. The end result is a much higher rate of earning Eagle - but I think it is the same youth earning Eagle - there just aren't as many who are just along for the ride.

Scouter99 - he wants a policy for allowing kids to refuse to tent with the gay kid.

That was my thought as well. I always counseled the Patrol Leader on the subject on the best way to deal with the conflict. Part of my job description I felt - help train future leaders on how to deal with conflicts in the field.

 

This is the only time so far that the issue has come up, and it has been raised by an adult not by a youth. Then again, the unit has a problem with adult pushed rule books that the youth barely look.

I am focused on the boys when on the ground. The only time this issue has come up is when someone thinks we need a unit policy for dealing with when one Scout doesn't want to tent with a gay Scout. I simply asked why we needed something specific to gays - every campout there can be a scramble to avoid tenting with any particular Scout for a variety of reasons.

 

I have kept my actions at the National and District level only so fa.

 

Barry - The BSA stigmatized themselves through their actions, communications and lack of communications through the years. We as an organization are obviously still learning how to handle PR in the modern, connected world.

Sorry - figuring out how to comment on my own thread. We don't have an openly gay kid, we have a Troop adult who wants to make sure that his son does not end up tenting with a gay kid (assumably against his wishes).

BasementDweller - the ones who stick around are chasing the Eagle. Modern youth don't have the time to be dilettantes - every activity has to result in a check box for a job or a college application. My hypothesis is that we have dropped the youth that used to just come for the fun of it, regardless of advancement. On top of that, there are more materials available for a boy to pencil whip his way through a merit badge (downloadable workbooks from MeritBadge.com for example).

Scouter99 - he wants a policy for allowing kids to refuse to tent with the gay kid.

I am focused on the boys when on the ground. The only time this issue has come up is when someone thinks we need a unit policy for dealing with when one Scout doesn't want to tent with a gay Scout. I simply asked why we needed something specific to gays - every campout there can be a scramble to avoid tenting with any particular Scout for a variety of reasons.

 

I have kept my actions at the National and District level only so fa.

 

Barry - The BSA stigmatized themselves through their actions, communications and lack of communications through the years. We as an organization are obviously still learning how to handle PR in the modern, connected world.

As long as Scouting professionals are measured based on FOS, popcorn and booklet sales, new units and total numbers we will see the incentive system drive behavior.

 

As long as units carry Scouts on the rolls, they will leave them there in case they come back (if the unit can afford the $25 or so annual carrying fee). My son is on the rolls for one unit, though he only shows up to help once a year or so while he is in college.

 

As long as rechartering remains such a pain, units will also leave some people on the list rather than deal with the poorly designed interface.

packsaddle - water chugging is a contest to see who can drink the most water in a period of time. It sounds harmless, but there is a slight risk of "Water intoxication, also known as water poisoning or dilutional hyponatremia, is a potentially fatal disturbance in brain functions that results when the normal balance of electrolytes in the body is pushed outside safe limits by over-hydration." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

 

There are a couple of cases per year that I hear about, and I can see this being something that could happen at summer camp in the heat if you aren't careful. I could see a hydration game getting out of control.

For some of us, we reconcile our faith with science by NOT taking the Bible as the LITERAL word. We go further to accept the belief / statement that the Bible was written by people influenced by their culture and environment, and the Bible should be read with that understanding.

 

In high school, I read Genesis and story of the creation of Adam from sand. I looked at it and felt that if I were to try to explain single cell evolution, I would use sand to eventual human as an excellent analogy.

Looks like an AP article. Here is a link from the Houston Chronicle:

 

http://www.chron.com/news/us/article/Dissension-and-fiscal-woes-beset-the-Girl-Scouts-4617295.php

You folks really crack me up. I'm not sure knowing what happens quailfies as Prissy. I've know Prissy as my FIL's dog.

 

Lots of assumptions expressed. Hoping that there are few here who have the ability to think a little outside your sandbox and imagine the possibilities. Look at the reason that knowing about incidents and yes, near misses might be important to an organization who is truely committed to the health and safety of youth. It has nothing to do with lawyers or insurance. It is the right thing to do. Read this http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/HealthandSafety/SafetyThoughts/130205.aspx try and understand. Repeat as necessary.

 

On a serious note I hope the king will never have to make a call about the one did not miss or the person not coming home. Google may enlighten you to the probability you will make a call.

 

And once again, please don't assume.

So national wants to know every time a kid needs a band aid? Because that is what that document implies.

 

I agree with a report for any incident requiring the help of a trained professional (i.e. a visit to an ER, a doc-in-the-box, etc.). It is the requirement that I track all "near misses" that is absolutely ludicrous. Worse, it forces one of two responses - a complete abandonment of adventure or an willful decision to ignore the requirement.

 

I am more concerned with the latter. If you put in too many stop signs, people stop coming to a complete stop. If you put too low of a speed limit, people speed both on that street, but also on others. Poorly thought out rules and regulations lead to people ignoring ALL rules and regulations - including the good ones. If you insist, I can can bury you in academic research on this.

 

A requirement to fill out a form for near misses leads to a distrust and a disregard for all of the forms. That is human nature, and you are dealing with volunteers here. Linking me to pedantic expressions of a desire for safety does nothing to convince - I write marketing claptrap for living. Link me to a page that talks about how there is a cost in bandaids that comes from going into the woods - that would be a great message send.

 

"Dear America - your kids are getting prissy. Send them out with us - we laugh at a little blood, blisters and bruises. Even better, we teach the boys how to manage it all, take care of their friends, and move on down the trail."

 

THAT is a message for adventure. A near miss form, however, tells me that you don't really want me to do the things that I am doing.

RichardB - before I begin, I appreciate your contributions and the tough position you are in (as I recall - you are at National). But let me look at the reporting requirements at the bottom level (where no ER / Hospital visit):

 

NEGLIGIBLE

• Near miss

• Injury/illness not requiring first aid

 

By the end of the unit recharter year, do the following:

1. Complete a Near Miss Incident Information

Report, No. 680-017.

2. Keep the report in your unit or forward to the

enterprise risk management contact.

3. Evaluate near misses in your unit or council

each year for any lessons learned and/or

program enhancements.

 

Do you really expect a unit to fill out a report for every cut with a knife, every burn from a stove or fire, every bruise from a fall? This reporting requirement (and I have read all of this) either pushes me to ignore the BSA requirements, or to stop doing anything risky.

 

I have told new helicopter parents the following "If you send your son with us camping, he will get cut, burned, bruised, dirty and will probably eat some nasty food at least once that he might have cooked himself. If that does NOT happen, we haven't given them enough space to grow. We are there with all of the medical records, first aid kits, and volunteers with the appropriate levels of training."

 

Our jobs as leaders is to balance boy led, adventure and safety. Reading that table, however, with a required form for what appears to be the lowest level of "incident" does not appear to encourage me to run a good program.

 

If I was really feeling grumpy, I could bury our DE in "near miss" incident reports. I don't think that is what YOU want, but the mere existence of the table and form infers a different level of review.

Per usual, it depends on the unit -and units change. There is certainly a lot more paperwork, fear, concern, control, "we won't sue you" documents to be signed, etc.

 

Lets also not forget the change in attitudes on environmental issues. I was taught to dig fire pits, chop wood, etc. That is not allowed in national forests. Heck, here in Southern California we can't even have fires in rings for half of the year or more

 

But some units still do the fun stuff. We grab our packs and head into the Sierras. I took our Venture Crew to the backcountry of Yosemite for 7 days. We have an annual "make your own shelter" campout to practice the knots, and we often do mountain biking in the local mountain trails (and use up a lot of bactine and bandages doing so). We go shooting with shotguns and rifles as well.

 

With all of the rules and regulations, the easier path is to be prissy. GreenBarBill knows I have fallen into that trap a couple of times myself. But then I remember that the fun times are often those where we followed the spirit of Scouting, not the Tour Permit.

 

I knew I was doing my job when an Eagle in his speech at his COH said, "I just know that if the Jeep is flying down the hill out of control - I want my patrol with me, and we won't be able to keep Mr. Horizon from joining us - and he will probably insist on getting a turn at the wheel."

When a certain individual in my unit end up on a BOR and decide it is their chance to interrogate a Scout about how they follow the Law of Reverance.

 

Other than that, a little at Scout's Own and some interesting ones on the trail, especially from the older Scouts who are moving from Sunday School memorization to young adulthood questioning.

The Times has printed pictures of Scouts handling the colors at Memorial Day and other ceremonies. Those are not as interesting as controversy, however, and they don't sell newspapers. The Times also has ripped apart the local schools, with 10x the coverage as when a a local school wins the Academic Decathalon.

 

There is also the problem that under recent leadership (since the Dale decision), the Boy Scouts have chosen to avoid press coverage. This year was the first that I received a note from my Council asking if we were doing anything for Memorial Day, so that they they could tell the press. There should be PR training for all DEs, and part of their job should be to send releases and invite the press to events where we shine. Until then, it is only interesting when Man Bites Dog.

 

As for the recent issues - we gave ourselves that press black eye by how we treated each other in the debate.

Great article in today's LA Times about Boy Scouts in Afghanistan:

 

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-afghanistan-scouts-20130614,7405823,5794763,full.story

 

"

first aid

Sentinel947 posted the BSA release, here is the reporting from CNN:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/19/us/boy-scouts-sexual-orientation/index.html?iref=allsearch

 

 

(CNN) -- The Boy Scouts of America would no longer deny membership to youths on the basis of sexual orientation alone, but would maintain its ban on openly gay adult leaders, under a proposal it is considering, the group said Friday. The organization's executive committee made the proposal, which is expected to be presented to the Boy Scouts' voting members in May. "If approved, the resolution would mean that 'no youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone.' The BSA will maintain the current membership policy for all adults," Boy Scouts public relations director Deron Smith said.

 

So a gay Scout can stay in, possibly a gay Venturer (I assume). They can earn Eagle (or Quartermaster, etc.). They can have the highest rank and honor - but they can't be an adult volunteer.

 

Baby steps, but there is an inherent contradiction here. This solves a little bit (no more PR on denying a boy his Eagle for being gay), but it won't solve the Lesbian Tiger Mom issue.

 

 

 

Posting more to test the site, but here on the Left Coast a panel in the state capitol is proposing taking away the tax exempt status of the Boy Scouts (collect sales tax on every Scout-O-Rama booklet sold):

 

"

Boy Scouts of America[/url=http://www.latimes.com/topic/social-issues/social-organizations/youth-organizations/boy-scouts-of-america-ORCIG000073.topic]

 

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/political/la-me-pc-gay-scouts-20130410,0,6792808.story

 

Interesting how they, too, are ignoring the atheist exclusion as well.

 

The LA Times has come out against the proposal:

 

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-boy-scouts-20130412,0,2815858.story

 

"

 

I received the survey (answered it for local control, and that my concern is that this entire issue is a distraction from our mission), as did my wife (who is also a registered leader). Our Council is having a meeting to nominate/elect/select our representative as well. I WOULD have been in that meeting, but since our Council eliminated the "parents of" type charter organizations, I am no longer a COR.