Gold Winger

" Now with the new uniforms, I've noticed they have the shorter square cut tails instead of the scalloped tails on before." In ten years I've never seen a Scout's shirt with scalloped tails. I have one but I haven't seen any more at the Scout shop for years and years. Why should the shirt be tucked in? For the same reason that the fly should be zipped and the cap worn bill forward. Because that's the way it should be done.

"BSA does NOT allow using the same "clandar periods" for working on different knots. It is not "vauge" it is plain in black and white." Do they or don't they? The former pro says they do. My pro said that they did. A bunch of volunteers say they don't. It all comes down to "what is tenure?"

"My Nissan Frontier was assmebled in Smyrna Tennessee, is that better than GMs asembled in Canda with Mexican parts?" Yep. I don't know about Nissan but Honda get all of their parts locally as well as manufacturing their cars here. I like to tease my Harley riding friends that their bikes have more Japanese parts than my Honda. It's true and it infuriates them to the point that they go out and buy more Chinese made Harley gear.

"be glad that even though our neighbors might be out of work, we are helping raise the standard of living for the Chinese. Glad? We should be proud!" I saw the retired CEO of Citibank on tv talking about outsourcing jobs to China and the impact on the American economy. His take was that even though it causes us local pain, we should be proud of how we are raising the standards of living in China. Of course, it isn't causing him any pain. He made a $300,000,000 (yes eight zeros) donation to Cornell.

"Gold Winger, I had assumed that your post was facetious, not serious. But, your 2nd post convinced me that you must be serious. I still find this hard to believe. Would you actually be willing to take a non-swimmer that is seriously afraid of water over his head on a white water trip?" It was but as with most humor, there is truth in it. No, I wouldn't take him. If he's afraid of water, why would he be going on the trip unless he is being forced to go? Is there a BSA requirement that he needs to go? I'm still confused as to why this is a concern. He probably struggled with inner demons to get through the merit badge, you should be glad that he managed to do that. If the troop was going rock climbing and he passed on it because he is afraid of heights, would it be an issue?

"Gee, what does that say about the Scoutmaster of the Troop I serve who is also the Council Training Committee Chair?" That's he's probably busier than he needs to be. Recruit, recruit, recruit!

Are they really saying no? My old DE took the position of "different position -- different tenure." In officiating, we always look at the spirit and intent of the rule. What is the intent here? Can we get a ruling from a professional?

There was a lengthy discussion of this subject a while back. I'm with GNX on this. Two registered positions, two tenures, two awards. Let's apply a little bit of logic (that pretty flower which smells bad) and common sense here. This is one of those rare instances where BSA has written something that isn't very clear. Of course, the final answer doesn't come from us, most of us can only offer opinions and discussion. The final answer will come from the District Training Chair or whoever needs to sign off on the award. Convince him that GNX and I are correct and you're golden.(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

"However, it was a lot of fun." What??!!?? You had fun on a bike ride? Without anything happening special happening at the end? Just enjoyed the ride? Did you not get the memo? Bike rides are just transportation to kids and they won't have fun doing that. Sheesh! What's this world coming to? Kids having fun just riding their bikes. Next thing that you know, a presidential candidate will appear on TV and play a musical instrument.

One year at summer camp, the staff did a campfire skit based on "who's on first." It was about the different staff positions and was hilarious.

Hey guys, we really need to get on board here. This uniform is the best possible Scouting uniform because that what is has to be. And since BSA decided to have it made in China, that must be the best possible place to have a BSA uniform made. We shouldn't care that BSA used to tell us that the uniform was expensive because it was made in USA by American workers and that the new uniform, made in China, costs just as much because that was the best way then and this is the best way now. We need to move beyond the idea that we need to keep Americans working and embrace the concept of the global economy and be glad that even though our neighbors might be out of work, we are helping raise the standard of living for the Chinese. Glad? We should be proud! Arise! All who refuse to be slaves! Let our flesh and blood become our new Great Wall! As the Chinese nation faces its greatest peril, All forcefully expend their last cries. Arise! Arise! Arise! Our million hearts beat as one, Brave the enemy's fire, March on! Brave the enemy's fire, March on! March on! March on! On!

"OK, you've had your fun. Now it's time to quit with the untoward remarks. FScouter" You think that this is fun? This is hard work.

"Ask your son is he wants to go for a car ride and the first thing he will probably ask is "to where" or "Why". To kids the transportation is not an activity it is a way to get to an activity." Riding in a car is passive. Riding your bike with a bunch of friends is active. Let's see . . . Pack15 said, "We have done this before as a Pack several years ago, and everyone involved said it was great and the kids who went (only about 10-15) enjoyed it a lot." I'll tell you a little story. I used to ride my bike a fair amount. No, I wasn't a seriou biker with spandex pants and an ultralight bike doing 100 miles but 25 miles on a weekend day wasn't unusual. However, four or five days a week I'd go for a little jaunt of usually about ten miles. At first I was going by myself. Then my son started tagging along, then a couple of his buddies. Then my daughter joined in. Then a couple of her friends. Soon I looked like the Pied Piper. One large guy leading a parade of up to 10 kids. Some days there'd only be three or four kids and other days there was the whole compliment. This went on throughout the summer until school started. Museums? Not a one. Ice cream? Nope. Nature hikes? Nope. They came for the fun. We had fun. They'd race each other, they'd race me, they'd wave to people in cars and shout out to people that they knew. It was just simple fun disguised as exercise. Alas, it only lasted the one summer as I tore up my knee and haven't been able to pedal since. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

OK, you've had your fun. Now it's time to quit with the untoward remarks. FScouter (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

"Everyone has to pass the "swim check" every year at camp, regardless of how many badges they have, and will be placed in the appropriate ability group." I know that but it really doesn't matter if this Scout passes the test. Does it? He has his Swimming badge and pass the swimming test for first class. BSA says that he never needs to put his toe in the water again. If you are forcing him into the water to satisfy some artificial troop requirement then there are bigger problems.

I don't think that there really are 10,000 members.

"May I ask you list references or data to substantiate this statement if possible. I have never heard that individuals who are homosexual in their ADULT sexual orientation are more inclined to pedophilia that persons who are straight in their adult sexual orientation. In fact, I have heard that pedophiles are most commonly males who are straight in their adult sexual orientation." One of the problems here is that the public in general doesn't know what pedophilia is and the media doesn't help any. Have sex with anyone under 18 and you're labeled a pedophile by the ignorant population. Attraction to Cub Scouts or Brownies would be pedophilia. Attraction to someone who is past puberty isn't. I'm not a homosexual and I've never played one on TV but I've had homosexual acquaintances. I've never known any to look at Cub Scouts and say, "Hmmmmm . . . yummy" any more than I've looked at a Brownie and said "Oh baby!" Now do they look at the studly 16 year old football player with attraction? Sure, that's normal if normal can be applied here. The same is true for most heterosexual men, if you're being honest, a well built 16 year old young woman walks by in shorts and a tight t-shirt and you look, twice. It wasn't that long ago that 16 year old women would marry 30 or 40 year old men and that was accepted as normal and good. Society has changed but the underlying biology hasn't.(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

Obviously what is needed here is more training and more attention to the program materials. + Eagle candidate, with Swimming MB who can't pass 1st class swim test currently, and who is terrified of water over his head. After a Scout earns the Swimming MB, there is no need to pass another swim test. Why is this Scout being tested and how is his fear relevant. + Same guy couldn't tie a square knot at camp, and butchered a 60' rope of mine, because he didn't know how to tie a sheep shank or a clove hitch on a bight. Neither the sheepshank nor the clove hitch on a bight are required knots to reach first class. After first class, there is no more need to tie knots and the boys should not be expected to tie knots because they need those neurons for texting. + Recently, none of the Scouts, 1st class or higher, could orient a map using a compass. That skill is irrelevant in today's Scouting world as are signalling and tracking. If you give the Scouts GPS units they don't need maps. + One of the most senior Scouts has difficulties pitching his own tent. Pitching your own tent is is not a requirement except for Tenderfoot. + Another senior Scout recently ID'd a hemlock as a "pine", a sweet gum as a "maple" (well, that's more excusable), and a hickory as an "oak". Is there a requirement to identify hicory trees? Training, man, training. That's what's needed here. You seem to think that Scouting is about knowing and living in the out-of-doors. That is so 1950s. Scouting is now about earning badges as quickly as possible and making Eagle before freshman year in high school. (This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

I think that the new uniform is the best looking uniform ever and that everything about it is perfect. How can it not be perfect, it came from BSA Supply.

BeeDub, I never see you discussing anything. All you ever do is quote BSA publications. As for my "attack," I still feel sorry for you.

"The emblem is worn on the left sleeve immediately below and touching the emblem of office for which it was earned." Don't see how that works. There's no room on the pocket for for the patch and if you put on the sleeve, it won't be immediately below and touching the "emblem of office." Logic is a pretty flower which smells bad.

BeeDub, I never see you discussing anything. All you ever do is quote BSA publications. As for my "attack," I still feel sorry for you.

"Conversely, most people I know that don't like Brussels Sprouts (or any other kind of food) had at least one parent that not only didn't like Brussels Sprouts, but was vocal about it." My mother loved brussel sprouts, my father would eat anything that was put in front of him. I hate brussel sprouts to the point that I learned to swallow them whole so I wouldn't have to taste them. The smell of them still makes my stomach turn. " Strange looks all the way around..." Young people have no idea what they are missing. I was talking with a group of young co-workers, not one knew who Humphrey Bogart, Maureen O'Hara, or Spencer Tracey was. To them an old movie is Star Wars. One young woman (a dean's list student) told me that she couldn't watch black and white movies because they made no sense unless they were colorized. And people wonder why I say, "Sheesh!"

BSA publications are never in error unless BeeDub disagrees with them because he has more double-secret information that cannot yet be released. So, ignore all of the pictures at ScoutStuff.org because they would have no clue as to how the patches should be worn and sew your trained strip UNDER the badge of office.

And BeeDub said, "exactly what BSA tells him to say" BeeDub, you were never a kid so you never would have found adventure in just hoofing it through the woods with your buds or climbing a tree just to see what was up there or jumping off a high rock into a pond. It's usually the adults in the world, boring grown-ups like you, who need a reason to go somewhere or do something. Adults would turn the bike ride into a mad dash to get to the end so they can have lunch and then jump into the waiting cars so they can dash home to prepare to dash off to the next over planned activity.