GMitch

You have been given some good advice, let me add to it. The Church Handbook of Instructions suggests that we have a Scout Troop and Varsity Team chartered for Aaronic Priesthood aged Young Men, with the Venturing Crew optional, but strongly suggested. If you are going to combine your Teachers and Priests, then my person suggestion would be charter a Venturing Crew and not a Varsity Team. With that said, the reason we charter the three units is to maintain a distinct Quorum identity. Chartering only two units does nothing to facilitate that. The other thing that is odd here is that the Committee is hindering advancement due to training. While that is admirable that they are pro-training, they are somewhat misguided in depriving the boys from progressing because your District is ill-equipped to offer Varsity Leader Specific Training. Maybe if your committee attends Troop Committee Challenge, then they'll better understand their role and yours? No easy answer, you need you COR to resolve this with the committee (Team or Troop Committe? If it is the Troop Committee it is none of their worry), and the best way is run the program as outlined in the handbook.

John, it may well be that your CD skipped out on some of what was actually supposed to happen, while mine and Rick's CD ran things according to the syllabus with exactness. I can assure you that the 43 people in my course did not "rest" on weekend 2. I had my tickets done upon arrival on morning 4, and still kept very busy the entire time on weekend 2. The one day my patrol had some ticket time we were service patrol, so two of us that were done with tickets allowed the others time to finsih while we assumed the service patrol duties. You have to factor in other things too like layout of the camp and how long it takes to get to some of the different places the schedule has laid out for the participants. Where is the chapel in relation to Gilwell Field, how far out is a patrol's camp from where PLC is held, or how far of a walk from Charterhouse to Gilwell Field, how far from camp to the showers, or to the campfire area? If one is at a large spread out camp, then the travel alone to the various areas is very time consuming. On evening 5 my patrol was so beat up we just decided that if another patrol came and invited us somewhere we would be gracious and go. If not, then we were going to do what Bobwhites do best, and hide in the bushes and the trees and recover.............which is exactly what we did.

Save the days you'd spend on more Basic Training courses, and put them in the bank for Wood Badge.

I second the busy second weekend. It was orginally touted by our TG that weekend 2 (days 4,5&6) was going to be more laid back, but somehow I found myself having one heck of a time even finding time to use the facilities to go #1,........... much less #2. Our second weekend was every bit as crazy as the first. Always somewhere to be and something to do, and not enough time to do it. Many patrols were running well behind us, so we weren't the only ones trying to keep up with the schedule.

There is a difference between having leaders trained, and leaders chartered, so which are we talking about? Without leaders chartered, you really don't have an actual Team. With untrained leaders on your charter, you at least have the bones of a unit. Untrained leaders will present some problems to your outdoor program, but not advancement. A Scoutmaster's level of training has nothing to do with him conducting a Scoutmaster's conference and presenting a boy to a BOR for a rank advancement. Likewise one's level of training as a Varsity Coach does not affect a boy's ability to advance in the program. The flip side of that is every boy deserves a trained leader, but you have already indicated you are desirous to be trained and you're working on that. Let that Team Captain and those Program Managers have the ball and run with it.

Great topic RD. I was just having this discussion today with one of my fellow course mates in WB21C. In our LDS Stake there is a big push right now for WB Training. The problem is that 95% of the guys that are being encouraged to go to WB have not even completed Basic Training. As my friend and I were discussing this, the thought came up that a bunch of these guys presumably are going to go to Wood Badge in about 18 months for a spring 2010 course. We talked about 3 of the 4 men that have been to Wood Badge in this Stake doing a little orientation session for the large group of participants. Not to blow the contents of the course and send them overly prepared, but just to alleviate any fears or concerns, and get them excited. When I first went in 1997 as a 20 something feller, I was not well prepared, and it was a little overwhelming to me quite frankly. If folks can go to WB well prepared, I think they will enjoy the course much more than stessing out over all of the little things. A few of my fellow Bobwhites right now are really stressed over the ticket, because they had not given any thought whatsoever to this beforehand. I know there are probably "Wood Badge purists" on here that think the tickets should come by osmosis or revelation during the course, but participants are so darned busy during the course that it is extremely difficult. The Scout Motto is..............

I'm a good ol' BOBWHITE. One weekend down with one to go also.

Ed wrote: " My question, is why, all of a sudden do we need to address diversity in Scouting? My opinion, to be politically correct! Which in my opinion is a bunch of whooey!" I couldn't agree more. I think anyone who lives the Oath and Law is already covering the diversity bases as a result. We don't need contrived PC "hippie like" diversity. When we say "to help other people at all times" does anyone who really espouses the value system of Scouting say to themselves "only other white or black people that is"? When we say a Scout is Courteous & Kind do we specify "only to other Christians or other Jews though"? It just seems like a bunch of PC bullcorn to force the WB participants into such activities when I would guess that left to their own devices, Scouters would reach out and do very similar projects without being compelled to in the name of "diversity". Too often in our world today certain behaviors or lifestyles get the label of "diversity" when they are nothing more than "perversity". I prefer to keep such ideology out of Scouting thank you very much. But, they have my $250 I and start Thursday. I will "work my ticket if I can" for the second go around.

FScouter said: "If old insignia is indeed being recalled, I'd guess it would be to avoid having folks wearing the new uniform with old insignia." Actually, National Council wants people who wear the old uniform to wear it with new insignia. This is made semi-clear on page 48 of the new Scouter magazine where it states: "And also the uniform items are transitional, so you can mix and match the present and the future." I originally thought old went with old and new with new. I planned on using my Centennial indoors and my old style outdoors and keeping it the same as it has been. I am changing my old uniform over to the new unit numerals and trained patch however. This will make units with old and new uniforms look more uniform, so I think it is a good idea. I think they could have been more clear on it, and perhaps addtional information is still forthcoming. One thing that is interesting is I had 2 new interpreter strips made and asked for one to be red/tan and one green/tan. I'm guessing that since they are worn over the BSA which is still red, they sent me two red ones. It appears they are not going to make them in the green, and I'd guess the same is true for Varsity or Venture strips.

I suggest you present the question to your District Training Chair, or District Executive. While they may not offer it, suggest that someone from the training committee do a one on one with you, or ask if you purchase the syllabus and self train if they will acknowledge it. I self trained for COR, and now they've asked me to do a COR training for the District. It has to start somewhere!

As a COR, I am encouraging all of our unit Scouters to earn their various awards. I tell them it is a system of "checks and balances", and the requirements of these awards ensure that we are serving boys and administering a quality program. I actually believe that is true. My underlying reason though is to create Scouters, real Scouters. In most cases I think that once a guy or gal gets a few awards and some recognition, they don't feel inclined to walk away from the program nearly as easily. They have a sense of accomplishment, have developed some friendships, have a feeling of acceptance by fellow Scouters, and a general feeling of self satisfaction because of their service to Scouting.

As was poninted out on the other thread, it is rumored that the red is out in favor of a new green Jac-Shirt eventually. I think I'll keep wearing my red one. I know red is out on the new uniform, but for me this isn't really about red vs. green, this is about the tradition of the Philmont Jac Shirt itself.

You simply have to put in the time and satisfy the requirements. There's no easy way to do it. I used older tenure to earn the Scouter's Training Award. Why? Because my most recent 2 years of tenure is being used to earn the Cub Scouter's award. I cannot start on the Pack Trainer's Award until the 2 years of tenure is over for the Cub Scouter's Award. Therefore, it will take 4 years to earn those 2 awards. If it were any easier it wouldn't mean much. Gunny posted the requirements for Scouter's Training Award and the Scoutmaster's Key. I would say that before those, a Scoutmaster should earn the Scoutmaster's Award of Merit in his first 18 months. Then in 24 more months (at 3 1/2 years) his Scouter's Training Award, and then in one more year (4 1/2 years) he should earn the Scoutmaster's Key. Again, there is no easy way to pencil whip the tenure without being dishonest or ignorant about it.

Eagle92, Thanks for the suggestions. I am aware of the long standing guarantee. For me, taking it back to the Scout Shop is not a viable option, as it is a 240 mile round trip. At the price of diesel fuel today, that would cost as much as about 3 shirts. Like I said, I emailed regarding my extreme dissatisfaction, and requested that they do something to take care of me. I would like to see them embroider the shirts going forward. Now for the better news. Last night I was using Heat-n-Bond tape to place the patches on the shirt before my wife sews them. This works a little better than using pins to hold the patches. Anyhow, I hit the crummy red letters with the iron for several seconds, and it looks like I have reattatched the loose lettering, for now at least. I actually think these letters could be melted on to the shirt permanantly. However, it would be a fine line between melting them to the shirt, and completelty scorching them so they were ruined. I just don't think that the customer, especially the customers who already give countless thousands of dollars and hours to this organization, should have to worry about cheap goods. Like I stated in my email to them, this is exactly the kind of quality the we expect from Chinese factories. HotFootEagle, Thank your DE or whoever told him that delusional goal for making me laugh this morning. Good grief! Sometimes these people in Irving are worse than politicians and we can't even blame outrselves for them being there. It is all we can do to keep many of our boys in hand me down uniforms that look presentable. I'm estimating that out of about 35 Scouts and Scouters in our 2 units, that perhaps 5 or 6 will purchase one of these uniforms. The reason on a couple of those too is that they are new Scouters and have been waiting for the release date on this uniform to purchase one. I would guess that in most places those same kind of percentages will hold true. In 5 years from now I think you will see 85-90% of folks in the Centennial uniform.(This message has been edited by GMitch)

I'm right there with you Eagletrek. The B on my red lettering is already peeling off and I have not even worn it or washed it yet. I just fired off a nasty e-mail to National Supply asking what they were going to do to make it right. I'm probably going to just sew on one of the embroidered BSA patches from an old shirt.

In response to Cubmaster Mike. National Supply will not make you a set of one piece numerals with the veteran unit bar until August 15th. They will however make you a one piece set of the unit numerals in the new green right now. They will not take a phone order on this item number. The order must be mailed or faxed in using item number 18084 and they are priced at $2.09 each. I had to rattle them a little bit to get them to make these numbers in advance, but they will do it. The girl tried to tell me that they will do nothing with the new uniform prior to August 15th. I asked "well being as these numbers take a few weeks, don't you think I can order them now so that when you sell me a uniform I have some numbers to sew on it?". Of course, "she had to check". I tried to get the veteran bar included but for some odd reason that has to wait until the 15th. Go figure! In 16 months we will be ready for a new veteran bar anyhow, so I went with the solid numerals sans veteran bar for now.

It is not too hard to hide the stitching on any patch when you use clear monofilament thread. It is sold at Wal Mart in the sewing section for $1.89 per spool.

Yeah that course it really glitchy. It usually fouls up around module 7. I took it at least 10 times from 1-7 before it allowed me to finish. I now know as much about the weather as the fellow on the 6:00 news.

Crew 21, I find that some Scouters in Districts I have been in are very much as you describe, namely insulting. I have seen this at Roundtables and Basic Trainings. The prevelant attitude with a few of these jokers is "we know everything, you are stupid, therefore if you have a question ask us". I know they probably mean well and are probably doing the best they can. It is tough sometimes to sit through that when these guys are not fully uniformed, improperly or sloppily uniformed with the pieces they do have, and sometimes share false notions in their self proclaimed attitude of "expertise". I know most of them have never been to a Trainer's Development Conference, and many are not Wood Badge trained. They really set up a "us-you" dynamic though. It doesn't bother me today. It was very discouraging though as a young 20 something Scouter. I just felt that I would never be as good as those guys. I let that attitude and their lack of drawing people in; but rather pushing them away, push me out of Scouting for 7 years. Now as I near 40 I realize that I have something to offer. Rather than complain about this type of so-called trainer, I am going to accept an open position as a District trainer on top of my other Scouting duties and try to help people along with a hand of friendship and the heart of a teacher.

SSSCout posted: "Boy Scouts have a choice: Totin' Chip, or Fireman Chit or OA Lodge . Then we have the over achievers that wear all three on the pocket flap." NOT TRUE!!! Nothing belongs on that right pocket flap except an OA Lodge patch. The Toten Chip is close to the same shape as a pocket flap patch, but if you will notice the BOTTOM edge of the pocket is the same shape, and that is where a Toten Chip patch belongs. It is not a choice of where to wear it, there is only one place that patch belongs. There is a choice of wearing the Firem N Chit, or Toten Chip as a temporary on the lower right pocket. See Link: http://usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/totinchip.asp Persoanlly I think having Toten Chip or Firem N Chit as a patch instead of the card is silly, as you mentioned it is revokable. What is the SM going to do, strip the patch off in the middle of an outing?(This message has been edited by GMitch)

Lisabob, I agree, both the District and the Council here have not done the best job at keeping records. However, as a CR and MC who is over training with both our Troop and Pack Committee, I do not find it that difficult to send copies of the training cards or certificates to the District as I get them from Scouters for our unit records. Am I doing their job for them? Probably, but that beats having some Scouter in the unit not have his training recorded. Also, the numbers I gave of 54% Troop & 40% Pack leaders Basic Trained for our units were not only direct contact leaders, but all leaders registered. If National is at only 29% for direct contact leaders, I would bet that percentage of Basic Trained registered leaders is close to half that.

Our DE recently told us that our District is at 14% Basic Trained. She added that she believes it is much higher, but that a large number of Scouters have not helped the District stay current on the paperwork. In our Troop we have 54% Basic Trained. In our Pack, we have 40% Basic Trained.

BMaxwell posted: "My CM has us put it on the left flap. Says he has done it for years and that is that." If my kid were in that Pack, his would be the only Toten'Chip patch on the bottom of the right pocket then. He would also be the only one that would be wearing it correctly, and "that would be that". Reminds me of that Webelos Pack I saw where all of the leaders were wearing their position patches on their left pocket (as if it were a rank!). Undoubtedly, this too occurred because "someone had been doing it that way for years", and everyone else was either too lazy to read an insignia guide, or too weak to go against the grain of the one who had been doing it that way for years.

I can't believe the OA isn't in here breathing fire when the right flap is mentioned! Toten Chip is a temporary patch, therefore it belongs where ALL temporary patches belong, on the right pocket. While it is pocket flap shaped, it is also the same shape as the lower edge of the right pocket, which is precisely where it belongs. ;-)

The first and fourth being centered is easy, and really goes without saying. It is the second, fifth, seventh etc. that cause a dilemma. Is one to strip off the centered one and then center the two so that when the third, sixth, ninth, etc is earned, then the two need to be stripped off and resewn yet again? That is where I draw the line, and apparently nearly everyone else I've seen does also. Most folks with 2 or 5 knots just place them to one side of the first or fourth and start a new row for convenience.