GKlose

In a slightly-related note, I was a little PO'd that my (then) Tenderfoot son didn't take the opportunity to clear 2C and 1C swimming requirements when he was at camp last summer. In fact, he didn't even try the swimtest, and was labeled a non-swimmer. The problem is, he isn't a non-swimmer. He swims. Quite well, in fact. It could be that he was just overwhelmed by the camp experience and decided the waterfront was beyond his limits. We're members of the local Y, so after camp was over, he was enrolled in one of their swimming classes (refresher on strokes, treading water, etc; and c

Our town has an annual town cleanup day, somewhere around the time of Earth Day each year. Volunteers choose sections of town, and pickup supplies (trash bags, gloves, water, snackage, etc -- all donated) and then return with full trash bags (hazardous waste, or large items are called in). I did this with a small group of Cub Scouts this last year, and hope to expand the horizons again this year. It doesn't take much -- drop by a public playground (or school, or senior center), and pick up trash. You could argue that this should be the responsibility of the town's public works employ

Just a personal note -- I placed my name in the CO's church bulletin as the membership chair of the troop. One Sunday evening, a parishioner called me. He's the chairman of the local conservation commission and had a project in mind that would be perfect for an Eagle project (he'd sponsored Eagle projects before, so this was nothing new to him). I talked with the CC, and we put our next Eagle candidate in touch with the chairman. They've sinced talked, and I haven't followed up with either (I don't feel that's my place -- once I heard they've talked, I stepped aside -- I just wanted to make su

I'm in the process of putting together something similar for our troop (the open house is coming up Monday evening). My package is a lot like what kbandit describes, except for maybe a Troop policy sheet (if I were to describe troop policy it would be along the lines of "we're so laid back, don't sweat the small stuff"). I've asked our DE for some kind of glossy brochure if he has something, but other than that, I have a handout from a BSA link: http://www.scouting.org/media/FactSheets/~/media/legacy/assets/media/factsheets/02%20503.ashx I also have a contact sheet, with a brief

It would be my comments that made DeanRx say this: "If there are 8-10 adults standing around "bored out of their mind" while the scouts are doing something cool, then I might suggest the adults need to engage and get involved in whatever "cool" thing the scouts are doing." The functions I've been talking about specifically are Webelos-related (Webelos Woods, Webelos Arrow of Light Weekend, and a Readyman Day), and events were specifically set up for Webelos involvement, not adult involvement. I think it is wholly-appropriate for a Webelos Den to function together, much like a Boy Sco

Wait a minute, I'm not saying it's gay! I'm saying what if that's what you heard... During marching band season, we usually didn't have a problem with football players. We routinely put in several hours more a week than they did. Now, basketball season was a different story. Our "pep band" only practiced a couple of times a week. I suppose that's because we didn't have to worry about "drill", and we didn't have weekend parades and competitions.

That's funny, that's not how I interpreted it at all... (apologies in advance for editing, to get to salient points) "Sports/band programs asserting their superiority over Scouting, and demanding higher levels of commitment...superiority of sports/band argument, which is at least unsubstantiated and some of us feel is total bunk." Yes, they do demand higher (or maybe just "high") levels of commitment, attendance-wise and perhaps preparation-wise. But they aren't necessarily asserting a superiority over Scouting. I think you're reading that into what is being talked about, and it

Delaware Water Gap national park? I did some quick looking into this for our troop; while I haven't been there, I've been told there is incredible beauty there. Found a couple of different places to stay, including one with rustic cabins. You could even hike a section of the A-T while there.

"They're all valuable. ... But they don't hold a candle to Scoutin'." (please excuse the modest editing) Beav', I have a different vantage point, given a different set of experiences from my youth, to the point that I will reiterate my view: for me, it was all part of the package. I can't really separate things out and say that one was more "candle holding" than another. This entire thread started with the bemoaning of the fact that there are certain youth that treat Scouting with second-class status, in terms of their extra-curriculars. I understand some of the compromises that

As a side note, earlier this evening it occurred to me there is, or was, a rather high profile Scouting music group: the Madison Scouts, a DCI (Drum Corps International) drum and bugle corps. I'm not sure about them now (and don't really care to look it up at the moment) because I don't follow DCI. I vaguely recall a conversation years ago that talked about the Madison Scouts organization, but I don't remember details now: it may have been an all-male organization, organized as a troop (albeit one that drew from a large area, because someone from my district would drive up, across 3 state

Sorry -- I should have been more specific. There are at least two OSU's, and I was talking about one of the others: Ohio State.

Barry, it's not about comparing mission statements and doing a "mine is bigger" check There isn't a single "varsity sports" consortium, or "youth music" set of guidelines that would provide the sort of thing you're looking for. I could maybe dig out a mission statement for Little League, or Pop Warner, or maybe for Interlochen Arts Academy, but I don't necessarily think it would prove anything. But having a mission statement, or not having one, doesn't really say anything about the quality of a youth program or what it teaches. My issue with the "moral high ground" statement is this

Oh, I know that an outdoor program isn't necessary for Venturing. I was just having fun contemplating the idea of using the structure of a Venturing Crew to organize a community band, and at the same time add an outdoor program to it for a fun aspect. Like John's Breckenridge example. Or, "hey, not only do we play concerts in the summer, but we also go canoeing" and stuff like that. -- Beav', I think you are underestimating the complexity of what goes on with a young musician and the groups that he or she performs with, and the values it teaches and develops. You've taken a somewhat

Music conservatories at the post-secondary level are a whole other story, as far as I'm concerned. I could go on for hours about how many of them do a disservice to young musicians, and I would never knowingly encourage a young musician to consider that a first step on a career path. There was some famous jazz musician, maybe Phil Woods, who said (more or less) that he wished a college would fill a bus with incoming music students, drive them around for several hours, have them play a gig, load them and transport them again, and keep repeating the process for several weeks. Then have them

Sidebar here: John, interesting point. I'm starting to half-think about the topic "if I were to develop a Venturing Crew, what would I do?" while in the past, I've also contemplated starting a community band. Then last week, those topics collided together with me. I suddenly realized there is no reason why a youth-oriented community band couldn't be organized as a Crew. (the epiphany came when I realized that when I was at the '73 National Jamboree, I saw a music group perform made up of all scouts -- at least I don't think they were an explorer post -- and I remember thinking "wow, I wis

Barry -- thanks for the considered reply. I've read it about three times now, and I'll admit I'm a bit overwhelmed by it. I don't want to quibble, and there are places where I could try to isolate points, but that wouldn't be fair, or entertaining, or useful. I do respect your point of view, and I'm not disagreeing with you, I think I just perhaps have a different vantage point given my choices compared to you and others. But I would like to point out that "developing character" is a fairly broad notion. In various parts, you list moral and ethical decision making, think, choose and

Now, labeling band as a "fluff" class is what really pisses me off. Just as much as someone who has pre-judged a band grade to be nothing more than an easy grade. In my own firsthand experience, it was anything but, and I've already listed the reasons why. Just think how you would feel if a college recruiter dismissed the concept of being an Eagle Scout as fluff. For the record, HS electives are not fluff. But there are school districts, like the one I'm in, that will calculate grade point averages and class rankings two ways, one with only core courses, and one with all grades, incl

"First let me say, all things being equal, I dont believe that those other activities even come close to developing a better direction for the rest of a boys life than scouting...Scouting far and away is better...My philosophy of direction when I was a SM was to develop our scouts into citizens of character and leaders of integrity." Barry, I don't want to come across as a pain, or a contrarian, but maybe as a Devil's Advocate in the spirit of good debate. But as I said before, this is the kind of value judgment that I couldn't make, having personally been in this same boat. So what

Lisabob - I think you hit the nail on the head. That's what I meant when I said it's all part of the package (Scouts/band/sports/etc). Lots of kids are exposed to all sorts of things starting from toddler-hood on up. My two sons have been in various music classes since they were very young, and we'd see all sorts of parents drop in for a semester or two and then drop out, and then move on to dance classes, or gymnastics at the Y, or whatever. I considered them "survey" parents, searching for breadth in exposure, while we were choosing more depth in one area (with balance being added by "s

"Im different from you in that I want a boy to struggle with tough choices because that is how he develops the skills of discernment." I would say this mis-characterizes my viewpoint. I said that I wouldn't want to make a Scout's choice *more difficult* by placing constraints (I debated with myself about using the phrase "artificial constraints"). Tough choices are already there -- the kind of thing I'm talking about, as an example, would be placing restrictions on advancement because of a troop-imposed attendance rate. That's just one example. It's something that unit scouters have contr

I'm sorry, Barry, but this kind of value judgment is not something I would make: "Scouting prospectively has the most potential to have a positive effect on all the other activities." I'm saying that as a band geek, a Scout, and someone who did pretty well academically and participated in a couple of special programs for advanced math/science students. I suppose if I had excelled at team sports, I would have participated more there too. I think it's all part of the package: for example, I don't think I can qualify it by saying "I am who I am primarily because I was a Scout" (or a mus

"Music has points that are valuable, but overall, I don't see how being a musician will give a boy better direction for the rest of his life." I responded re: sports/band/scouts conflicts in the other thread, and my own experience was like what others have posted in this thread. Not only was band a huge commitment, it was also tied to honor's band credit, which (contrary to popular belief) was not an easy grade. There was pretty much a zero-tolerance policy to get an A. But the statement above kind of puzzles me, especially because I am still an active musician. Granted most of my cl

I had a similar discussion in another forum under a completely different topic, but the background is the same. I was one of those band kids, and there were times when it was really tough to participate in band and Scouts because of conflicts (this was high school band -- I can't really address middle school or elementary school band conflicts because, in my case, neither of those groups had Friday night or weekend commitments). High school band was sort of the equivalent of varsity sports -- there were audition requirements, rehearsals sometimes took more than 3 hours a day, counting the

I special-ordered some custom numerals a couple of months ago. I seem to recall being asked if I wanted to add an anniversary strip. There isn't any harm calling National Supply and asking. The woman who took my order was very friendly.

There was a thread this last summer, as I recall, that talked about an unmarried DE and his GF sharing camp quarters.