GKlose

I think that brings up something interesting. There is BSA clip art available from an official source, Troop Program Resources (http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/Clipart.pdf). The first page, at the bottom, it does say "No additional licenses or permissions are required for uses that fall within the scope and within accepted BSA editorial and content standards."

I'm with evmori and Kudu on this -- troop committees don't get to decide what does and doesn't count for Camping MB. That is clearly MB counselor territory.

I suppose you could argue that they do for rank advancement T/2C/1C, via a Board of Review, but that is starting to get into an SM/Committee territorial dispute, if you ask me.

Guy

October Sky at ours too (NE-I-267, fall 2009).

I've seen it about 10 times total, so I was actually relieved that my TG wanted to do "ticket talk" while it was playing. Otherwise, I'd guess that I would have fallen asleep.

Eagle92 --

I've been close to the center of two packs falling apart, and neither one was pretty. Knowing what I know now, I should have stepped up to save the first pack. The problem was that the CM/CC (he was a one-man show, in a small 15-Cub pack) only gave the rest of us about a week's notice between his announcement that he was done and to when he moved to another pack. Four or five others from his son's den immediately moved with him, which took the pack down to almost nothing. The district held an emergency organization meeting with the rest of us, but those that had already decided to move didn't show. The pack died, and just this last year, the troop tied to the pack died (didn't help that the troop blamed its lack of membership on the pack disappearing, even though they did no other recruiting).

With that experience, what I learned is that the biggest pain to a declining unit is the parental threat of moving to another pack.

The second case: much larger pack, dead from the neck up. The CM/CC (another one-man show, and he was a micro-manager so every detail had to be approved by him) was burning out. He announced he was stepping down. My wife had been running pack meetings, and a den, but our son was moving on to a troop (I was already involved with a troop). The largest single den had a leader who was uninterested in stepping up to CM -- in fact, he told the district (and I knew this because I was on the district committee) to either solve the problem (save the pack) or he would move his entire den to another pack. That would have killed it for sure.

The district did save the pack, by bringing in an outside adviser to act as CM for a few months. Luckily other parents stepped up, over time. The pack is still alive, but it wouldn't have been without a district volunteer stepping in to solve a single unit's problems.

So on the Scouts-L email list, there is a correspondent who keeps saying "all Scouting is local", and I think he's right. We can fret over all kinds of things, but the bottom line is that if our son is not having a premium experience with his pack, or troop, then that is the most important problem to solve.

If you want more detail about either pack falling apart, I'd be happy to provide it. I tried to be succinct above, giving only what I think are the important details.

Guy

Mr Adams --

(BTW, I grew up in Xenia, part of your home council, and worked at Camp Birch for 3 summers -- I'd guess you know my old SM, who goes by RJ)

Unfortunately, the SM wasn't there. He's an avid hunter (and at the moment is at Philmont on a "relationship development" elk hunt, whatever that means) and is rarely around in the fall. A year ago, I waited around to see what would happen with the troop, and nothing happened. The first outdoor event, since the beginning of August, was a Sunday morning trebuchet building event in November). The first overnight was at the end of January. So, August to January, no overnight camping!

The SM has pretty much given the other adult leader and I free reign in terms of organization and training. While the SM has been saying "we're working on that" in terms of reintroducing the troop to the patrol method for the last three years, I finally decided to do something about it. Hence the "back to basics" weekend training, and the new challenges.

But I get what you're saying. If the SM isn't on board with the idea, and the followup, then the plan won't work. We are taking a risk on this.

I suspect the SM is on his way out, and is slowly stepping away. His son is a senior in HS, and is due to finish his Eagle project just before he turns 18 in February. We have a high adventure canoe trip scheduled for next August, and I think the SM is targeting that for his last trip.

Guy

I love "what I did this weekend" posts -- there are always great ideas to be gleaned from them, and from other posts in this forum. For example, Bryan S. has been a great help to me, providing guidance on developing a youth leader training weekend --

Which is exactly what I did this last weekend. The bottom line is that we have an adult-led, troop method, advancement-oriented troop with fairly non-functional patrols, and another adult (our heir-apparent SM) and I ran a youth leader training program for prospective PLs and SPLs. I know this will stick in some craws, but we strongly suggested (without saying "required") that those interested in PoRs this next year should attend.

The weekend went very well, not perfectly, and I think there was some value for everyone. The desire is to jump start the PLC and patrol to be functional. It happened organically, without a real plan, but I offered a series of challenges to this group of Scouts. The list includes:

- take over leadership of the troop, via the PLC

- create a patrol program (meetings, outings and advancement)

- run patrols using the National Honor Patrol criteria

- take back ownership of the annual program plan

Of course, this was a learning experience for me, and we're not going to be able to change troop culture overnight. But it seems to me that to have a set of strategic goals is a first good step. It's also interesting that I am seeing the natural leaders emerge, and that some of them are the natural "troublemakers" in the troop.

Guy

I love the concept of 300 feet --

It reminds me of my troop, many years ago. A couple of times we did a Brownsea-style summer camp, on our own, in a county park in northern Michigan. Primitive camping. 300 feet? I'm not sure, because I never visited other patrol sites. At least that much, maybe even up to 1/2 mile. At least 1/2 mile from the "base camp" where adults camped, and our primitive trading post existed, and was a meet-up spot for merit badge instruction, starts of hikes, that sort of thing. Commissary and water jug drop-off (an adult would load empty water containers into a truck and refill them for us somewhere else -- I'm not sure where; another adult made daily trips into town to buy groceries and ice). I think it is the thought of 300 feet (separation, for independence and true adventure) that is important, rather than the actual distance or layout.

Of course, as everyone points out, there are always exceptions. Camporees are usually much more densely populated than 300 feet would support. But if all of a unit's camping is camporees, state parks and other small group campsites, with ad-hoc patrols, so that you're really talking adult-run troop method, wouldn't it make sense to start branching out for the true adventure?

Guy

I have a question -- did any of you participate in your HS band? If so, was it a fairly high-level band (weekend competitions, state contests, that sort of thing)?

Guy

This reminds me of me, when I was a scout :-)...

My very first summer camp, I'm thinking it's summer, I don't need a sleeping bag. I took a light blanket and a sheet. To a camp in northern Michigan. With nighttime temps south of 45F. I was cold, and didn't sleep well all week. Never said a word to anyone, and after that, I was never cold on a camping trip again. But at least I was only affecting myself.

The second time, not so. I was a PL, as I recall, and forgot a cook kit in the trunk of my dad's car when I was unloading. That weekend not only was my patrol annoyed, but every other patrol was annoyed too, when I walked around begging for a pot here or there. That was fodder in the troop for years, but then again, I never forgot anything else again either.

Now, 35 years later, I make lists. :-)

Guy

This vaguely reminds me of a story -- our pack, along with many others, spent a night aboard the Battleship Massachusetts (Fall River, MA). Below decks, ventilation is not so great, and I swear we were all feeling just a little hypoxic. Sleep came late, because of noisy Cubs (there were maybe 40 Cubs and adults in our bunkroom), and just after everyone quieted down, a woman screamed. Loudly.

She then apologized, loudly, because she thought she saw a kid falling off a top rack. It wasn't so funny at the time.

It wasn't a very restful night after that. The only mildly amusing part I remember is that the next morning, I was talking with a group of adults, and one mom mentioned that there was one extremely loud snorer in the bunkroom. I answered, "Really? I didn't hear a thing." But she didn't catch on.

Guy

For an annual Webelos outing that our troop puts on, we feed a large crowd of Webelos and parents by putting out a buffet of items to add to foil packs: ground beef, chicken, italian sausage, steak tips, kielbasa, hot dogs, onions, bell peppers, hot peppers, cherry tomatoes, zucchini, potatoes, etc. Although there are plenty of people that pick and choose, the intent is for everyone to take a melange of ingredients to put in their pouches.

Guy

When I was a Scout (circa 1976 or so), my SM did a similar incentive thing, where the top 6 (or so) sellers were able to choose their own outing (which the fundraising paid for, although it was minimal expense). I was one of the top sellers, so I got to be involved in the outing. We chose one of our favorite things to do, which was to go caving. Normally, our annual caving trip was in March, and was usually a cold and rainy outing Carter Caves State Park, in Kentucky). But this special outing was in June, as I recall, so the weather was completely different. We also didn't see many hibernating bats -- they were all out and about that time of year. That trip is one of my fondest memories of being a scout.

Guy

Our troop has bought a couple of cheap first aid kits at a local Walmart, but I think the quality is reflected in the price. They may be cheap, but they really don't hold much (besides a lot of individual packaging, which helps make it look like there is more in the kit than what is really there).

I just took a Red Cross first aid course. Our counselor didn't even cover the section on splinting. She said something along the lines of "don't splint anything -- whatever you do will just be taken off and redone by EMTs". Of course, she wasn't talking about backcountry. In those cases, I was rather impressed with the SAM splints I saw on my Wilderness First Aid course. They aren't that expensive (about $10 - $15 each), and come with bandages that help secure them.

By the way, the online Red Cross site has some fairly affordable group first aid kits (and emergency services packs). Whether or not they are more suitable than pre-made kits at a local store would be arguable. They certainly seem like a much better deal than the Adventure Medical kits. Which, by the way, can sometimes be found discounted online at sites like www.rei-outlet.com.

Guy

One of the best times I had with my siblings happened during a holiday week when our families were back home visiting mom. Mom decided early on that she thought it would be fair if each one of us each took a night to cook dinner, and we were left on our own to shop and cook. The best part was when the sibling rivalry kicked in and we attempted to outdo each other. Everyone ended up a winner...

So in true scoutlike fashion, maybe a duty roster is in order. :-)

Guy

DWS -- the best way, and I think your plan is a sound one, is to go ahead and register as a merit badge counselor and then finding out the names of the Scoutmasters your local troops. Then let them know you're available as a merit badge counselor.

Guy(This message has been edited by GKlose)

I saw a web-based program the other day that looks fairly interesting: http://www.troopwebhost.com/. Seems to have many of the same Troopmaster-like functions built into it (including online advancement and rechartering) and provides functions of a troop website. I made note of it because we use Troopmaster and pay a provider for website services, and this other product would probably cut our annual expenditures for those in half.

One small step at a time :-).

B-Skip -- that sounds like a great method (ammonia/water). No problems with nylon coatings?

thanks,

Guy

This is off the top of my head, but what about a timed course, based on a standard (run it through yourself, and use that as the benchmark)? Then patrols can be plus/minus the time standard, thus penalizing the patrols that run from point to point. Closest one to the standard would get rewarded. In order to stave off running and waiting, don't disclose the benchmark. Just let them know that it is based on a certain event time, and then walking (safely!) to the next station.

Guy

Oh -- we did have a positive change in the last year. A few years ago, the "ol' pack leadership" didn't want to be bogged down with Boards of Review on-demand, so they decided that the last meeting of the month would be Board of Review night.

But with the new advancement guy, we're back to doing Boards of Review on demand. A scout notifies him in advance, and then he makes sure there are enough committee members there to take care of the BoR. Since we usually have enough adults at the back of the room at meetings, Scouts have even begun to ask at the start of a meeting. I can think of only one case in the last year where we couldn't accommodate a Scout, so he had to wait until the next meeting.

Need a negative example? :-)

(this drives me up the wall, by the way) -- our troop leadership is descended from Cub Scout pack leadership, in a pack that used the Blue and Gold as their end of year banquet. Therefore, all awards were held until the end of the year...

Fast forward to the troop of today -- awards, badges included, are held until a Court of Honor (October, sometimes March if there is an Eagle, and June), where Scouts are presented with a Ziplock sandwich bag that contains their advancement booty. If a Scout misses the CoH, he can get the stuff if he asks for it, and if the advancement guy remembers to bring it. Otherwise he can pick it up at the next CoH. We still have guys in the upper ranks that have Tenderfoot badges on their shirts.

Like I said, a negative example. Please don't do this with your troops. :-)

(side note: the advancement guy is on-board with the idea of presenting badges as soon as possible after they've been earned, and then presenting recognition and cards at the CoH, but so far it hasn't happened yet -- not sure how the ol' pack leadership is going to feel about that one!)

Guy

Beardad -- I did the same thing with my older son. His first year at camp, I dropped him off and then picked him up. He did a lot of growing in that week.

During his second year, I was there for the week, but I pretty much left him alone, except for one thing. He didn't pass the swim test on Sunday, so Monday morning I made sure that I walked down with him to instructional swim, and then he passed the swim test. That was good, because he was going to work on Swimming MB in the next hour. Things were fine after that.

This year, his third year, was my younger son's first year at camp. I was there for the week again, and I pretty much left them alone except for occasionally asking them if everything was going well. We only had six scouts in camp, and I left them all alone during the week, except for occasionally talking directly to their patrol leader.

Guy

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the input.

I've seen, in the past, tents and things like nylon packs that have disintegrated when they are stored in a hot attic. As far as I know, the seams are in good shape on the ones we have, and we don't have coatings that are sheeting off, or anything like that. I'd probably toss out the cheap tents in that circumstance.

The Timerberlines: I just learned about them at the end of the last meeting. There was at least one, possible more, in a old canvas bag. I don't know their condition, but we'll be checking that out sometime soon. I hope they are still usable. I'd guess their quality is much higher than the department store specials we have.

Thanks again for your help.

Guy

B-Skip -- as a trombonist, going into my 40th year since starting, I can confirm the importance of "mouthpiece buzzing". It not only helps solidify his embouchre, it also helps tone quality, breath support and ear training. One of my teachers, who helped me completely revamp my playing about 20 years ago, had me practice a mouthpiece buzzing routine that took about 20 minutes to a half hour to work through, daily. That, more than anything, led to great changes in my playing. One of the tricks, though, is not to overdo the buzzing. It should not be like a duck call, loud and violent. It should be relaxed, melodic and with good tone quality. Transition between notes need to be smooth and connected, which is a direct reflection of breath support.

There's a jazz trombonist, Bill Watrous, who does an interesting buzzing demo at his clinics. At a microphone, he will buzz a particular tune (without a mouthpiece) while he brings his trombone up to his lips, and then he continues playing with the trombone. He also demonstrates buzzing one note while having his trombone slide set for another note. It is really easy to see that for optimal tone quality, one must buzz the note they have their fingers set for. That's also makes it easy to see why younger players, before they've really trained their ears, have problems with intonation and tone quality.

My youngest has been studying trumpet for two years. He's annoyed by our present troop bugler (who doesn't practice, and only plays Taps at the end of our meetings -- it's the only call he knows) and wants to take over the spot and also earn Bugling MB. He's also annoyed at me for being a Music MB counselor but not being a counselor for Bugling. :-)

Guy

By the way, we haven't really needed "troop tents" all that much -- before I arrived on the scene a few years ago, the troop had mostly settled into a pattern of using personal tents, which most of the older scouts still do. Younger scouts, however, don't necessarily have their own tents, so we're interested in getting these older ones back in service, if possible.

Guy