Fuzzy Bear

It is a dream that neither bullets nor time can erase.

I read all of this and wanted to respond to keep the thread going. As long as politicians are deciding moral issues for us, the longer it will take to get to real issues like the Economy/Bankruptcy, War, Hunger and Health Insurance. Gay-Rights is a moral issue. A Church should decide if they want to marry people of the same sex. Abortion is a moral issue. A Church should decide if they want abortion. If someone doesnt like the morals of their Church, then they should go to a Church that marries gays and aborts babies. Q. Should marriage involve groups of people marrying each other and wouldnt it be confusing? Answer: Well, it is already happening. People are marrying and divorcing at record rates and yes, it is very confusing and yes, lawyers are making fortunes over it. I draw the marriage line for consenting adults at four. I get offended if someone nudges it on up to five. Although if my wife decides on three, then I draw the marriage line a little closer to two. I cant answer for her but I hope she agrees. Has any society survived homosexuality? Answer: 100% of all past societies have failed but nobody knows if it was due exclusively to homosexuality. According to the mountains of sifted rubble, mankind has been pretty inventive. Q. Are all Gays dishonest? A. The evidence is inconclusive. The researchers are having trouble tracking down all of the dishonest ones. Q. What reasons do Gays have for being dishonest? A. Does the term Whipping Post ring a bell with anyone? Q. Pedophilia, Pornography what is the problem? A. Sex in any form has no place in Scouting. A person must be able to relate in a healthy way to Scouts and other adults if they cannot, then they need to move on. Q. Do heterosexuals engage in dishonesty and sham marriages? A. No. Just kidding. Q. Are girls of 14 getting married in our world today? A. Yes, having babies, getting married, all the same things that Romeo and Juliet worried about. It has nothing to do with people dying early and girls reaching early menarche. The same can be said about the use of hormones today. A. The idea of writing a story that all can relate to is considered to be an act of genius. A. I personally believe that at age 14 a persons ability to relate and act as an adult is limited. Getting married and having babies at 14 probably means that someone else will do the adult things for them. Q. What did the APA say about homosexuality in 1950? A. The 1968 DSM-II Manual, Seventh Printing, Page 44 302.0 Sexual orientation disturbance This is for individuals whose sexual interests are directed primarily toward people of the same sex and who are either disturbed by, in conflict with, or wish to change their sexual orientation. This diagnostic category is distinguished from homosexuality, which by itself does not constitute a psychiatric disorder. Homosexuality per se is one form of sexual behavior, and with other forms of sexual behavior which are not by themselves psychiatric disorders, are not listed in this nomenclature. (*I realize this A. is not from 1950 but this is when I first began studying the psychological literature.) Q. Will society die out if gays marry? Remember, they cant have babies. A. Doesnt anyone remember that condoms would keep the world from over-populating argument? Ok, so I know a homosexual. That sounds like the start of a joke but it isnt. I know several homosexuals in my Church. Some have been together for years. As I have gotten to know them, their relationships are disturbingly like the rest of us. They still give me a feeling of disorientation because I have stereotyped them in my mind. I dont know that I will ever see them as normal but in so many ways they are. I now believe that they need to get married, openly. They need this for no other reason than to confirm that they are a loving family unit and to get whatever benefits allowed them. I wish I could take pictures and send them with this as an attachment because I think most that are against their unions would reconsider. These people that I commune with are not a threat. If they are wrong, then let them stand before God and let God judge. I dont want a hand in it. I drive an old beat-up Toyota PU. I got it second hand and have traveled near one quarter of a million miles. I need a new tail-light cover. Does anybody have one? I hope this helps. FB

Warning, do not let this happen to you! I have areas, closets, boxes both cardboard and plastic, four-drawer file cabinets, bookshelves, and trunks full of Scout stuff. It is in the living room, guest room, garage, shop and in the basement. I used to purchase things from Scout Collectors and Memorabilia people and then I went over to Ebay and then garage sales and wound up at auctions. We have moved 6 times in the last 10 years. This last move, I brought along my collection of large rocks that I dug up out of our back yard to make a rock path at our new house. I also threw away 6 large garbage bags of Scout papers during that move. My wife has reached a type of an epiphany with me and my stuff. This year is the year for getting rid of the duplicates and excess. I hope I can find the time. Scouting tends to draw me away. FB

Several astronauts were Eagles.

I would like to respond to this but not get entangled in some kind of bitter debate. The basic premise is that politics should be a way to get our roads fixed. Religion should be a way to get our hearts fixed. If we exclude certain groups from our highways and if we exclude certain groups from our religions, then many don't get to where they need to go. FB

I was lounging in camp and the Scouts decided to be active on their own. After about thirty minutes one Scout runs back in to camp and says, Mr. FB, Mike got hit in the head with a rock. I said, Well what are you going to do about it? while coming out of my reverie. In a couple of minutes, here comes Mike flanked by two Scouts and with a slight gash to the head. I simply said, Set down here. The Scouts will be right with you. The Scouts jumped into action and had doctored Mikes wounds in no time. We didnt discuss this incident too much because they knew what they had done was wrong. Mike was not hurt badly but it could have been worse. I called Mikes Mother and told her what had happened and that I felt that Mike would be alright. She agreed and so did Mike. Of course, I knew what individual activities that the Scouts had decided on. They wanted to play Rock Throwing. It is a time honored tradition with most kids but there is the down side and that is someone can get injured. I suppose we were lucky that it was not worse. Here is the upside to the Rock Throwing incident. I had not planned on making anyone responsible for their actions but that is what I did. I was upset by what happened and without thinking I put it all in the hands of the guilty parties. The thing that I did not expect was that they took responsibility and acted. From that day forward, I asked the Scouts what they wanted to do. First it became a habit to ask and then it became an expectation to say what they wanted to do. I had a few rules. We were Scouts and we would do Scout things, which means there is a great amount of latitude but it did not include throwing rocks at each other. Somehow this incident translated itself to the parents as well. They began to understand that I would accept certain responsibilities like orientation of new Scouts and parents and SM conferences. ASMs would assist in the background while the JLs would run the Troop. This meant that we would have problems with quality but then we also evaluated all programs. Growth was the expectation. These programs were based on yearly evaluations and planning. We would have a large campout with the PLC and JLs going on some kind of an excursion and the rest of the Troop would take hikes or whatever they had planned. These planning sessions were supported by lots of parents. We would return after having loads of fun and with a rough plan. It would then be refined first by the PLC returning to the Scouts and then later coming together at a session for their final draft. The draft would then be sent to the TC for review and support and then be finalized. That copy published and sent to everyone. Hopefully, it was place on refrigerators with magnets and it was also handed out like advertisements. Our program became a vision and an expectation of what the Scouts wanted for their Troop. Thanks Mike for taking the hit. FB (This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)

In an overwhelming effort of conciliation and toleration the change of wording was quietly contemplated and it was finally decided that it made little difference. So, it was decided, out with "denominations" and in with "religions". So, it was rectified. To suggest that religions share common truth is to invite anything other than toleration. They write whole theological libraries and build seminaries to house and discern the differences no matter how small. They won't even share the same building, so the competition becomes one of size and facility for the varied activities. I have known several bankers and none were Presbyterian. I did know one Quaker and she was studying to be a banker. I suppose it was just a matter of time before she saw the light. FB

I got to thinking about these bad Eagles All of these Eagles were human. All of these Eagles had parents. All of these Eagles had families. All of these Eagles ate food. All of these Eagles wore blue jeans. All of these Eagles went to school. All of these Eagles went camping. All of these Eagles did Service Projects. All of these Eagles were quiet law abiding citizens. All of these Eagles were religious. We need to get to the root of this problem.

To suggest that denominations share common truth is to invite anything other than toleration. They write whole theological libraries and build seminaries to house and discern the differences no matter how small. They won't even share the same building, so the competition becomes one of size and facility for the varied activities.

I was a fair student and I enjoyed Scouting but I worshiped football. I paid my dues from Junior High on and played "First Team" my Senior year. I obtained Eagle at the end of my sophomore year but few cheered. I graduated close to the bottom of my class. I got to college and shook hands with a guy that in a few years was to become all Pro. I quit my football dreams over that one handshake. I then struggled with academics until I quit school within the next two years. I worked for a couple of years and found that minimum wage jobs lead me to the same place football had taken me. I moved back to the college town and found a job that paid enough to get me back in school. Four years later, I walked away with a Masters degree and a profession. There was more but it is difficult to put it all into words. In the meantime, I returned slowly to Scouting. I could tell you or your son what was/is important but most of us have to find it out the real hard way. FB

molscouter, I didn't see that one coming. I should have taken my shoes off and used my toes as well. FB

Ultimate Truth is easy enough to verify. Is there anyone up to it?

More Discussions: _ Red Feather The most difficult problem that I have seen in failing or in trouble troops is the parent participation. COH are great times to recruit parents and get them involved. Disdain for DC and above...... about the only time we hear from district is when they want money from the troop or when they have a pet project that they want us involved in. the troop I am involved with is one of the premier troops in our area and we are accused of not supporting the distict, therefore not a 'proper' troop supporting BSA. We are a very active troop doing spelunking, sailing, canoeing, backpacking, high adventure, on top of pushing the basic scout skills. We draw from 4-5 packs and get 2-3 transfers a year from other troops. But we are doing something incorrect according to a lot of the district and pro scouts. Each troop os different and should rise or fall on the merits of that troop. Parnetal involvement is paramount in the survival of a troop. Off the soap box. Thanks KS- Korea Scout I put all our new Scouts in a New Scout Patrol shortly after taking over as Scoutmaster about six months ago. I had 8 Scouts in the patrol at the outset. Some were truly "new", and a few had a couple months in the Troop already. I did this based on BSA literature that encourages it, two ASMs I latched onto them, and a heartfelt promise from my newly anointed Troop Guide that he would jump into it with both feet. The Troop Guide piece didn't work out as expected. This older Scout, who's a good kid and completed JLT, has the typical teenage distractions, missed some meetings/activities, and increasingly came to view himself as a "babysitter". This hurt the effort. All the Scouts in the NSP were not a smooth, homogenous, single demographic. They didn't all come from a feeder pack, didn't have universal Cub Scout experience, and weren't all 11 years old. The ASMs, being active duty military guys, weren't at every activity/meeting, either. In short, I sometimes had to "detail" an older Scout or another leader to work with the NSP. Had I assigned them to permanent patrols to begin with, that support system would have been built in and automatic. We also had problems when the NSP competed in interpatrol activities at troop meetings, or at camporee competitions. I had to be very creative when they consistently came up last in events that counted on Scout skills they simply didn't collectively have yet, or physical prowess inherent in the older Scouts in the permanent patrols. To be sure, the part time Troop Guide affected this, but in fairness, no Troop Guide can make an 11 year old perform like a 15 year old in a relay race without performance enhancing drugs -- you get the point. As much as the Scouts pay attention to the competition results, this was a much bigger deal than it may seem to an adult. Since FCFY (as a program) is closely linked in my mind to formation and care/feeding of an NSP, I think it's success is dependent on several things happening simultaneously, and efficiently. 1. NSP is formed before summer camp, of boys from the same feeder pack. They will, by definition, know each other and be close in demographics. 2. Gotta have a good, dedicated Troop Guide. 3. ASM(s) who have both the inclination and the opportunity at the same time. Would I do it again? Not under the same circumstances I had this time around. I believe I can give one or two new Scouts to each permanent patrol, with FCFY tracking sheets to supplement the patrol record book, and let them run it. KS- Korea Scout Acco 40 If a scout can become first class within a year of joining Boy Scouts, it shows that he has been involved, went camping, learned basic skills, etc. I don't think that making 1\+{st} Class in the first year in and of itself is such a big deal but if done it usually shows that the scout is progressing nicely, is having fun, attending meetings, etc. If feel that if a boy becomes 1\+{st} Class within a year it is a good indicator that he will remain in scouting for a time (good retention) but not that it was \b{THE} reason for retention. Look at Cub Scouts. The boys who made regular advancement were usually the ones with parental involvement (Cubs is a family based, unlike Boy Scouts) and thus stuck to the program.

CNYScouter provided us with this one: I decided to spin this off from the "The Top 10 for a Qaulity Unit" thread. I should have figured that the BSA had something for a unit to use. The link below has Self Assessment forms that a Pack/Troop/Crew can use to help them evaluate their program. These are under Unit Commissioner resources: http://www.scouting.org/commissioners/resources/index.html I have never seen or heard of these before, but I have never been with a unit that had a good UC. I would really like to see Unit Leaders made better aware of what is out there for us to use. The site had the following: Troop Leadership An active adult committee meets monthly. Assistant adult leaders are involved in the troop. Adult leaders are registered and Fast Start and Basic Training are completed. The unit provides a pack with active Den Chiefs. An adult leader coordinates training for all adults. An adult leader is trained in Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat. An adult leader coordinates Youth Protection Training. And everyone is trained. Youth leaders are elected by youth twice per year and provided with training. Program We develop an annual program calendar and share it with our families. We operate under the annual budget plan. We conduct monthly troop youth leader meetings to plan meetings and outings. We have adult leaders attend Roundtables. We review program routinely with our charted organization regularly. A good percentage of our youth earn advancement. Our Troop attends Summer Camp. Our unit is 100% Boys Life with all families. We conduct at least one service project annually. Membership/Attendance We have youth of all ages involved. Our weekly unit meetings are strongly attended by our membership. We have good participation from youth and parents at the quarterly COH. Our youth and leaders wear their uniforms to meetings and on outings. We have an annual plan to recruit new youth members, including graduating Webelos Scouts. Quality Troop We annual recharter on time. We earn the Quality troop award We are on track to earn the Quality award this year.

CNYScouter Your spelling of Assesment and Commisioner are equal to my Qaulity Unit spelling. Thanks for the tip I used it on the Qaulity unit site. FB

According to several BSA Annual Reports, the average number of Scouts that earn Eagle for any one year is 5% which is based on the total of all Scouts in the nation for each of those years. I cannot find the site but another authority wrote that 2 in 100 Scouts have earned the Eagle Scout award from 1912 to date which gives a lower average of 1.5%. We don't have any other index to support using the 5% figure as a way of comparison. We don't have age comparisons, the total number of years in a Troop prior to earning the Eagle or area of the country along with several other demographics that would give us a way to measure success to Eagle. We could use a site comparison by using the total number of all Scouts in any one year in a Council or a District with those that obtain Eagle in the same area to give an estimate of how a unit is doing with advancement to Eagle with other units. Of course, I don't think that either of us means that we should use the Eagle award as a single measure for a Quality Unit. Since it is such a tricky measure, I suggest that it not be used. There are those units that may approach the Quality Unit standard using the Eagle award as a means to forgo planning, leadership skills, etc. and use meetings as MB Midways. It appears to me that there needs to be a balance of Quality Unit indicators if we are to arrive at the Aims of Scouting. The Methods tend to support better data collection and should help to measure quality units. A couple of the Methods will need to be debated on as to how they should be measured but most are straightforward. Aims and Methods of the Scouting Program The Scouting program has three specific objectives, commonly referred to as the Aims of Scouting. They are character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness. The methods by which the aims are achieved are listed below in random order to emphasize the equal importance of each. Ideals. The ideals of Boy Scouting are spelled out in the Scout Oath, the Scout Law, the Scout motto, and the Scout slogan. The Boy Scout measures himself against these ideals and continually tries to improve. The goals are high, and as he reaches for them, he has some control over what and who he becomes. Patrols. The patrol method gives Boy Scouts an experience in group living and participating citizenship. It places responsibility on young shoulders and teaches boys how to accept it. The patrol method allows Scouts to interact in small groups where members can easily relate to each other. These small groups determine troop activities through elected representatives. Outdoor Programs. Boy Scouting is designed to take place outdoors. It is in the outdoor setting that Scouts share responsibilities and learn to live with one another. In the outdoors the skills and activities practiced at troop meetings come alive with purpose. Being close to nature helps Boy Scouts gain an appreciation for the beauty of the world around us. The outdoors is the laboratory in which Boy Scouts learn ecology and practice conservation of natures resources. Advancement. Boy Scouting provides a series of surmountable obstacles and steps in overcoming them through the advancement method. The Boy Scout plans his advancement and progresses at his own pace as he meets each challenge. The Boy Scout is rewarded for each achievement, which helps him gain self-confidence. The steps in the advancement system help a Boy Scout grow in self-reliance and in the ability to help others. Associations With Adults. Boys learn a great deal by watching how adults conduct themselves. Scout leaders can be positive role models for the members of the troop. In many cases a Scoutmaster who is willing to listen to boys, encourage them, and take a sincere interest in them can make a profound difference in their lives. Personal Growth. As Boy Scouts plan their activities and progress toward their goals, they experience personal growth. The Good Turn concept is a major part of the personal growth method of Boy Scouting. Boys grow as they participate in community service projects and do Good Turns for others. Probably no device is as successful in developing a basis for personal growth as the daily Good Turn. The religious emblems program also is a large part of the personal growth method. Frequent personal conferences with his Scoutmaster help each Boy Scout to determine his growth toward Scoutings aims. Leadership Development. The Boy Scout program encourages boys to learn and practice leadership skills. Every Boy Scout has the opportunity to participate in both shared and total leadership situations. Understanding the concepts of leadership helps a boy accept the leadership role of others and guides him toward the citizenship aim of Scouting. Uniform. The uniform makes the Boy Scout troop visible as a force for good and creates a positive youth image in the community. Boy Scouting is an action program, and wearing the uniform is an action that shows each Boy Scouts commitment to the aims and purposes of Scouting. The uniform gives the Boy Scout identity in a world brotherhood of youth who believe in the same ideals. The uniform is practical attire for Boy Scout activities and provides a way for Boy Scouts to wear the badges that show what they have accomplished.

Is 100% BL a sign of a quality unit? The traditional response has been that BL follows the National themes in Program Helps that Scout Units may use as a starting point to their monthly program planning. I have witnessed programs that were based on nothing more than a Leader thinking "outside the box" to come up with their own ideas. When Program Helps was finally introduced, it generally has been like taking a 50 pound rock out of their backpack, of course, while in the middle of a long hike. "Instant Program" seems to always be a relief. My reaction as a young Scout to getting my own magazine or anything from anyone outside my immediate family was a joy. My brother received BL before I became a Scout and I would sneak it out and read it. I dreamed of the day that I would become a real Scout. BL is advertisement to young Scouts about things that they like. I started collecting BL over twenty years ago. My fascination had to do with the things I loved as a youth. I liked the comics with Pee Wee Harris and gang, Whittlin' Jim's articles on how to make neckerchief slides, the dorkey donkey Pedro and his mailbag, and GBB's articles on How to's. I have a collection of all of the above today. I can't say that having 100% BL will insure that a quality program will happen but as Pedro might say, "You can lead a donkey to water but you can't make him drink it". FB

There have been 43 Presidents since 1789. Scouting started in 1910 and the first Eagle Scout came after that date. So we should subtract 27, leaving 16 Presidents. About 2 out of every 100 Scouts ever reach Eagle or 1.5% of the Scouting population since 1910. There are 281 million people on the last U.S. census role and that does not count all of the people since 1910. If only one President was an Eagle, then the chances of that ever happening again is just barley above 0. Had the chap in the White House not been a crook, there still would not have been an Eagle that was President. Burma Shave

You know that the UP can make a Citizen's arrest even if they are out of uniform.

He'll never find out.

More Discussion: Recruitment I can understand not wanting to ruin a relationship with the local troop, but it sounds kind of one-sided. Troops are no different than churches, colleges or even datable girls. It is all in what they have to offer that makes them attractive. If they show no interest in you, why should you be interested in them? I for one want my son to go to a troop he will enjoy....but also to one that is properly run and provides the best program. If that isn't the one who just expects the kids to come to them automatically, too bad. They should have a desirable program and put forth some interest early on. SR54Beaver Thirdly, as our den leader talked to the our boys at the end of each troop meeting, she would ask them how they liked the troop. One boy would chirp up and say, I like that they go backpacking, another would add, me too, then they would all agree. Then one of boys would offer that he also liked troop xzy because they went family camping, now another boy would say, yeah, I like that troop also. And soon they all would comment that they liked the troop that went family camping. The best was when one of the boys opined that he liked troop abc because his friend Mikey was in that troop. Some of the other boys then agreed because they also knew Mikey, ( I asked one of them to tell me how he knew Mikey, basically the answer was that he knew of Mikey as someone that his den-mate also knew of. Fotoscout Follow-up after Webelos visit. OGE Bottom line: a good program and a well-run/led troop will attract and keep new Scouts on its own. Korea Scout Read everything you can. Not just the SM handbook and Scout Handbook. Here's a short list (anyone else, feel free to add): -Fieldbook -Requirements Book -Troop Committee Guidebook -Insignia Guide -SPL handbook -PL Handbook -Junior Leader Handbook -Advancement Committee Policies book -Guide to Safe Scouting Here's a few more tips: - Ask to see copies of the last ten Local Tour Permits the Troop filed. That'll tell you if they did them, first of all, where they went, and who approved them. All good indicators of program strength and rule-following. - Ask to see the minutes of the last year's committee meetings...same reasoning. - Ask to see the treasurer's reports for the last year...same reasoning. - Ask to look at the Troop's equipment. The organization, condition, and quantities will tell you a lot. - Ask to see the last year's advancement reports. - Look at the troop flag; where are the Quality Unit and Camporee award streamers? Korea Scout The Best Scoutmasters are those who let a handful of Boys control the Troop activities and functions. Be sure to explain that you want to run a Scout Troop, not a Merit Badge factory. Ask your DE ,when he/she last met with the Chartered Organization, and how have things gone in the past? If you are not a member of the Organization that charters the Troop, ask yourself Why Not? Will not being a member cause any problems? Eamonn Parents should not be directing troop activities at all. Neither should you as scoutmaster. If that is your concern, I'm guessing you have reason to worry that this is already occurring. Your biggest concern should be how to convert the parents from leaders to support staff so that the boys have a chance to be the leaders. SagerScout

It's your choice since this is a leisure activity for volunteers. Back to the trenches? Find another unit, one that needs your help. The district is generally full of needs. Find one that meets your special strengths and shine like a new penny. What are your needs? Haven't you ever wanted to climb a mountain and go up the side that few have climbed or repair the much used trail to the top of a special peak? Surely you have a list of problems that you have thought long and hard about that you wanted to fix. Go do it. You wouldn't listen to any of us anyway. FB

I call "it" the Matt effect. As SM, I required one parent per Scout to do one big thing per year. Since this requirement was mine, I was also the enforcer. I only kept records so that I could give out Thank You's and certificates at our end of the year banquet. I didn't make sure that I had every parent do one big thing per year. My REAL motivation was to visit with each of the parents on occasion and to speak with them about their son and to ask if they could do one big thing. Some parents couldn't do one big thing but most did, many did several. If one set or individual couldn't do one big thing, then it wasn't a big thing. I always had a list of big things to do. Matt was a Webelos Scout that was quiet and sensitive. He came into the Troop and stayed for a period of time. I visited with his parents and found out that his first absence was due to basketball. This brought about Rule #2. If a Scout wants to play ball, then he is still a Scout. Scouting is a year-round activity. Play ball and come back whenever you have the chance. "Matt, we want you here." Matt returned after basketball. His parents couldn't do one big thing but like I said, It isn't a big thing if they didn't. It was Matt's second year when he decided that he didn't like the Patrol he was in so he was gone again. I visited with his parents and found out what was happening. He was interested in religion, so Matt became our Chaplin Aide. Matt finally dropped out completely. This time I got a call from his parents to state that it was final. I suppose they didn't want another home visit with another pitiful concession. I told them to tell Matt that we would miss him and if he wanted to reconsider that he would be welcomed back. Rule #3 Home visits work. Each Scout is an individual so it takes time to make these visits. I considered it one of my main job duties. Rule #4- Have a yearly planning meeting campout with the Troop Leadership. Take that Plan and involve the Troop committee in supporting it. Have a parent type the final version of the yearly plan, post it and give them out like cigars. I left out some rules on planning because the point I am making is that the yearly plan is the "business card" for the unit and should be the main reason that others want to join. It is a good one because it was always boy driven. FB

Here are a few stats. from National and then some more discussion on camping: National runs three National High Adventure camps, 70 Councils run High Adventure camps, and most of the 300 Councils runs at least one LT Summer Camp. National puts on a National Jamboree every four years and participates in World Jamborees every four years. Keep in mind also that your son is not limited to troop campouts if your SM follows the scouting program and has patrol activities as well as troop ones. BW Just as clarification there is no scouting recommendation to go camping once a month. That is a common but incorrect notion. The guidelines for outdoor activity is that the troop has an outdoor activity once a month. No where does it say that activity must be an over nighter. BW Personally, I think the monthly camp-outs is what keeps our boys in the troop, and in scouting. When the boys are at camp, they are different then when they are at home, it's hard for me to explain but, it's like their own little getaway, away from home, homework and yes, mom. I feel like every time my son comes back from a campout, he's grown a little more . Sparkie P.S. Our boys are ALWAYS working on Merit badges (whether in camp, or weekly meetings) the first one being....First Aid. Boys love the outdoors and the outdoors love the boys. If it's a one night camping trip or two nights. We never pass down an opportunity to get the boys in the woods Scoutmaster Ron what do you folks think? We have done allot of family camping - just the two of us - wonder if those nights count, too. in other areas of the Camping MB badge - like the preparation - it DOES say to do it with your troop or patrol. Laura T7 The intent of the 20 night requirement, as my DE explained it to me, was to get the Scout not only camping, but PLANNING to go camping, with menus, equipment, site selection, application of LNT principles, patrol duty rosters, and so on. That's why they only allow one summer camp to count toward the 20 nights. In that vein, family camping would not qualify toward the 20 nights. If you look at the Camping MB pamphlet and the skills BSA wants a Scout to get proficient at when working on Camping, you'll surely see that the objectives are met in troop/patrol camps... Korea Scouter Actually, as Bob White has said, the correct person to be asking this question is your sons Camping MB counselor. Sparkie

As a SM, I required that one parent per Scout do one big thing per year. What I got was parents doing two, then three and so on. It was like Christmas most of the time. We always had several ASM's and a whole slew of Committee persons. Taking on a high-functioning autistic boy would probably not be the problem as much as getting these parents to come on board. They sound like they are wayyy toooo busy for this Scouting thingee. I really hope that someone can cut through the smoke in this one. I appreciate the ADA and believe that everyone should make "reasonable accommodations" for those that would like to Scout. I feel sure that many of us know more than one "normal" Scout that we had to make some very unreasonable accommodations for in the past. FB(This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)