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fred8033

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Everything posted by fred8033

  1. fred8033
    I had long talks with our pastor about that. ... Is scouting core to the CO purpose and would be significantly less without it. Almost always the answer is NO. For our CO church, the church has it's own long standing youth group and it's own long-standing faith formation program. Even more, scouting faith components are generic and not well aligned with the CO. i.e. the church can't use scouting to pass on their personal beliefs and values. So if it's not core, the church members don't invest the time and money to oversee and run the program. That's when negligence and lia
  2. fred8033
    Agreed. If the program ever stabalizes (law suits, finances, membership, woke, etc) ... the MB program will need to be re-organized. In 2022, 14 of the 21 Eagle MBs will be explicitly required. Leaving 7 to be chosen by the scout. Of course the scout can always do more, but I'd really like to see the MB program truely matching the advertisement to explore and discover new skills and new careers. Too much feels like a weak immitation of school. Even the communication MB. Instead of the communication MB, couldn't we have a Life Rank requirement to design and MC a troop COH. Isn't th
  3. fred8033
    "When I said ... the pack bus the advancements", I was referring to this pack's decision. IMHO, if the person is a member of the pack, the pack should not be asking the question as they don't for other members. Treat the dues / fundraising as a membership question, but not a does the pack buy advancements ... unless as you assert ... the pack asks all members to buy their advancements. Pay as you go ... I really like the idea if you can make it work. It is much more work for the treasurer and the pack leaders, but a nice model. I like it because some parents chase bling way out of bal
  4. fred8033
    I was just saying ... don't mix involvement in fundraiser with buying advancement items. The real test is: are they a member of the pack? If yes, the pack buys the advancements ... UNLESS you charge back to each scout their advancement tokens. I've only see that for EXTRA tokens. One pack did it for belt loops. Pack bought rank and core advancement. Other things the pack expected families to purchase as there would always be one or two families running up the costs. The whole idea of fundraisers is to benefit the organization and the organization's goals; not just th
  5. fred8033
    I really find this the most interesting development. City was sued City paid. Paid now because suits against the COs / LCs are not bankruptcy blocked. Shows the deepest possible pockets. Cities, insurers and large institutions. Shows not all paths are blocked now. Why are COs and LCs not being sued? They are not blocked by the bankruptcy case. Seems like BSA bankruptcy is noise blocking progress getting money for victims.
  6. fred8033
    Doesn't it depend on the incorporation of the fire department. Did the city run the fire department? Provide training? Own the building? Provide oversight? ... That's the whole volunteer scouter issue. BSA liable for volunteer actions. If a city fire department failed to oversee a scouting unit, then the city should be liable for damages. I'm also betting there is a paid staffer somewhere in the volunteer fire department chain. Even if paid a token amount. Similar can be argued for elementary school chartered packs. Or even for schools that allowed recruitment in the e
  7. fred8033
    Pack fundraisers are to help everyone in the pack. You can give them 20% (or similar) of their sales as an incentive, but the fundraiser's whole purpose is to reduce the cost for everyone doing work in the pack. The whole fundraiser / dues / cost is something that's been discussed ad nauseum. Key point is non-profit fundraising serves the purpose of the non-profit. Individual sales can benefit individual, but then there is a different question. Generally, pack sales are usually smaller than IRS noise level. I mention as charge dues is fine. But don't consider fundraiser sales as
  8. fred8033
    Extreme examples are often useful in debates. Many view him has an upstander. Others don't. But, I can accept your point. It's too inflammatory example for now. ... It's just the one I was reading about in the news today. ... It came to mind because he clearly stood up for what he believed was the right thing to do. He did not want to be the guy sitting 20 miles away doing nothing but watch a city burn. ... but you are right ... probably too inflammatory for now. ... I'll remove that sentence.
  9. fred8033
    I'm familiar with the word. It's a relatively new word introduced as many words are by inverting another word; bystander. The idea / concept is great. We want our scouts to have backbone to confront wrong. My issue is it started as a linguistic play-on-words and smells like a design-by-committee word. Too forced. Like Unobtanium from Avatar. Plus, I question whether it's a real opposite of bystander. A bystander is a person who does nothing when faced with a traffic accident; a crime; a wrong or a crime. We're often talking about dangerous situations. Or are we talking mo
  10. fred8033
    All things aside ... just a verbage issue ... the term Upstander is junk. Shakespeare would weep. ... It sounds like a committee met repeatedly to pick a rallying word, but had to pick something. So, they chose upstander.
  11. fred8033
    #1 Purpose of MBs ??? ... Going tangential. Not directly on this MB. I agree with "...there is a ton..." ... I fear this is yet another where BSA does a light weight, cheap, shallow introduction to a topic done much better in school and church. ... Scouting has historically been reactionary to society trends. Think STEM. Think the 1970s new scouting program that moved away from outdoors. At this point, I'm a bit lost on purposes of rank requirements versus MBs. I used to think MBs were about either skills development or career exploration. Now, MBs seem like a disorganized dumping
  12. fred8033
    Ok. Thank you. No need for words such as "If you don't get it, you probably won't." Those words are ugly and mean. I understand your point. It's the personal connection of a heart felt apology. The human expression. ... I know I saw that during our SE's discussion and the discussion that followed between the SE and district leaders / unit leaders / CORs. He expressed everything you could express in a personal, heartfelt apology. It was painful. ... I'm sure other scout leader have experienced similar. In my post ... last night I asked the moderators to remove as it wasn
  13. fred8033
    It is a gambling game. I've read on SOLs to try to understand reasoning and laws. Some will open. Others, maybe in the longer term. Some will never open. Pennsylvania? ... Penn State abuse cases. I'm not sure they could honestly re-open SOLs without opening up for Penn State / government liability for most government institutions. I'm not sure the state would want to do that. Utah with LDS? Texas being very conservative? Other states that had open SOLs that expired years ago. Will they want to re-open yet again? I think it's a longer path to re-open SOLs.
  14. fred8033
    I understand and sympathize. "Voluntary" / "involuntary" is who filed the bankruptcy. It says debt can't be paid. It is not an easy or arbitrary business strategy. ... The current mess is a chicken and egg thing. Lawsuits pulled BSA into bankruptcy. Bankruptcy pulled more victims in. It's a mess. The trouble is viewing it as denying a day in court. BSA is speeding into a financial wreck, but others are asking to be heard before the course is changed. It doesn't work that way. The goal is to get cash into a trust for victim's benefit. I'm not sure another six mont
  15. fred8033
    "I'd be tempted to say then" ... that you also know the other adult lives in the same house and provides common care for the children. Most importantly, the mom knows this and has chosen this. ... Perhaps just ask for a simple handle written note from the mom. I'm flipping back and forth on this one.
  16. fred8033
    I'm not sure that is useful in this specific situation. I'd only ask him if you are asking the other parents. I really seems you need some simple guardianship form signed by the mother indicating she is granting the adult temporary guardianship of the child. There are web sites that can be used. Keep it simple. Most importantly, be open with the mom. You're not a business and you don't have your own lawyers. You are only trying to do right by the child and by the organization. The more I think about this ... I'm betting ... the mom has had to deal with this for other r
  17. fred8033
    Agreed. I really don't think there is a better side for most victims though. Some yes. Most no.
  18. fred8033
    Does anyone doubt this is a real bankruptcy? It will exit chapter 11 (reorg) or chapter 7 (liquidation). The pending legal fees alone are massive before even considering settlements and judgements. I truly believe a failed chapter 11 bankruptcy means liquidation. Liquidation means less for most survivors because of debt priorty. "Some" in open states may get more, but most just won.t Plus, lawsuits will restart and continue for years and be extremely expensive for all parties. It seems the best exit is a BSA only chapter 11 and soon. It reserves the most cash for victims; p
  19. fred8033
    This is a common challenge for many youth serving organizations. I volunteer at another (non-scouting) family based service program. When I started 15 years ago, family was defined by the mom and her kids; and a married husband if they had one. About ten year ago, it switched to more of a common law rule. If it was long-term, then it was family and this was for sheltering and parental oversight. So, my heart goes out to scouters answering this questions. Even married step-parents are not automatically legal guardians. Long-term married boy friends? It's almost like when ne
  20. fred8033
    At low levels. If the contribution amounts are kicked up, those without current or probably liability, ... would they stay in the agreement? I did not think all 250+ had agreed to contribute.
  21. fred8033
    Wow. Thank you. That is very helpful. Please forgive this view as it's just my thoughts. A great evil was done before. Now, we are doing another evil (charging future kids more) to pay for a past evil. This is just ugliness on top of ugliness. I guess it's like the old saying that when things get dirty, no one comes out clean.
  22. fred8033
    Good point LDS left. So Utah probably doesn't need as many camps. ... The question is whether the LCs in Utah have signed up for the agreement as I bet their SOLs won't re-open. That probably explains what I'm seeing in my state. Camps were less busy, but not way, way, way less. Camp usage by LDS in my state was far less than 10% of the campers. Far less. I'm betting it was between 2% and 5% at best. So it does not affect our state much. So, our council still needs the local camps and potentially could see a recovery in the coming future.
  23. fred8033
    Thank you. Wow. I did not make that connection. I still agree with my thoughts. I just did not think that future kids will be paying for this settlement. Wow. I really did not make that connection. I'm used to bankruptcy cases and income projects etc. I can see if more business comes that a bankruptcy agreement would adjust for that to avoid hiding probable future earnings. ... I just did not make the connection that the trust explicitly was funded by future kids signing up. ... Legally it sounds normal, but it just sounds wrong that a non-profit with a good cause would be penalized
  24. fred8033
    It is intellectually dishonest to argue 900,000 as the long term membership numbers. We just had a PANDEMIC. I remember. We had funerals this last year. We buried our friends. 2019 ... After 20 years of bad press and continual court battles and membership battles and recruiting challenges, etc, etc, etc, etc), 2019 was still 2 million members and 700,000+ volunteers. It is very conceivable if BSA can get past this final ugly hurdle and get past THIS CURRENT PANDEMIC, the program will recover. It is conceivable if BSA can fix it's marketing too, that it can successfully market
  25. fred8033
    Isn't that the negligence of the claimants lawyers? The victims should be pissed at their own lawyers too. So ... Which lawyer met the victim? Which lawyer invested time with the victim? Which lawyer incurred cost working with that SPECIFIC victim? (versus the overall case)
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