fred johnson

For you to say thank you to your wife ... a plaque? Only if you incorporated your marriage as a business.

Go right to giving nice jewelry and a nice dinner. Maybe you can find jewelry with stones in a cub scout color. How about a nice gold chain? Or a decorative pin.

Jewelry goes much further. Gave my wife extremely nice jewelry each time one of our sons were born. Diamond ring, necklace, ear rings, etc...

blw2 ... nice list. I also fully agree with what you said. There is too much emphasis on detailed requirement tracking. IMHO, let the scout track it in his book or use the BSA scoutet sign-in. We use scouttrack.com and soarol.com. I love soarol.com because of the great features. ScoutTrack.com is loved by our unit leaders who are very much into painful requirement tracking. but it seems to defeat the intention of scouting and make scouting just more homework.

Anyway, nice list. We've used SOAROL.com for many years now. Life saver.

I struggle with OA involvement. I promote it, support elections, etc. But most of our scouts just don't get much out of OA other than the ordeal and/or brotherhood.

Our district does have troops host district camporees and special events. When hosting, the scouts in that unit are given a very special experience to plan and coordinate the event. It is a great experience for the scouts.

Other than units hosting district events, I do NOT think scouts should have regular leadership responsibility at the district level. If they really want to be or if their special situation would benefit, fine. But I just don't think district leadership is something to design into the youth program.

With that said there is something that has been discussed in our district that I wish would take off.

LOCAL IDEA - Local district roundtable scout breakouts for SPL and PLs and other with leadership roles. Unit leadership changes at least once a year or sometimes more often. It would be great if every month the district held youth breakouts. You could have four or so major topics per year that are gone over: Leading people, planning and coordinating, getting out and doing things and special topics. SPLs and PLs could be encouraged to attend roundtable to learn in their breakouts and to hear the monthly large group announcements.

I just don't see any benefit either. But I see a whole bunch of risks and problems. adults not staying at a distance. Reducing the independence of the scouts.

In our pack, rechartering Webelos 2 in the last few years would be a $300 to $500 cost. $24 plus $12 for boy's life. Packs get screwed by this. Fundraiser / dues do not matter. Money is coming out of pack checking account and the people are not in the pack anymore after a short time.

I would do two things.

#1 Recharter the boys this year. Otherwise you will piss off the boys or the troop they join.

#2 Move next year's blue and gold to before the recharter date. The submit the $1 fee the day after the blue and gold. Then, submit the recharter. IMHO, it's worth it.

I have experienced issues with this as Scoutmaster. Mainly because of the "Boy Scout Troop Organization Chart" image that can be seen here: http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php...cout-troop.gif. I have found that some of the parents in the Troop Committee see this picture and believe it means that the Scoutmaster works FOR the Troop Committee, who works for the Troop Committee Chair, who works for the Chartered Organization Representative. I have reached out to many professional Scouters, who have explained that this picture is really only showing the "reporting in to" function, as far as the lines connecting the boxes. Within the boxes everything is correct. Within the "Troop" box the Patrol leader "works for" the SPL, who "works for" the Scoutmaster. Within the Troop Committee box the Committee Members "work for" the Committee Chair". But the lines connecting the boxes are only showing that the person responsible for the Troop (the Scoutmaster) reports IN TO the Troop Committee and that the Committee Chair reports IN TO the Chartered Organization Representative. This is why the Scoutmaster attends the Committee meetings and gives a Scoutmaster report. Now here is a question... The same parent(s) who seem focused on the whole "you work for us" idea effectively dismisses the Scoutmaster once his report is complete during the Committee meetings. Committee meetings are always scheduled for 1/2 hour before the regular Troop meetings, so the Scoutmaster has to leave anyway. Is this normal/common? Just seems it would be better to be on an off night and that the Scoutmaster would attend the whole meeting (without the right to vote, of course) so that he is aware of all discussions, and can give his guidance and input. Why would any Troop Committee want to make decisions without the Scoutmaster there?

The situation is slightly murky until you look at the forms. From my experience, the CC can remove a volunteer. But the COR and CC "both" need to sign the leader applications. Look at the form. Now, if the COR wants to sign for the CC, that's his choice too.

Anyway ... Lazerous thread. Well debated. The real issue is that adult volunteers are not a employer / employee relationship. Ya need to work together.

I like what qwazse wrote. My big fear is that it is hard enough to get one adult who get's what it means to be a good scoutmaster. Now, you've got to basically have a good SM plus multiple good ASMs.

My fear is the adult who just can't follow directions or keep to the agreement of "I'm here if you have a question". I've run into way way too situations where there is an adult that for their own edification needs to inject themselves into everything.

You might define the role as an at-a-distance-advisor-only-if-really-needed, but I'll bet 30% or more of the adults will have a hard time sitting still and keeping quiet.

The other problem is getting consistent attendance for the patrol advisor. We tried the patrol advisor and our experience was the ASMs were not consistent in attendance to really be dependable to be around when needed. It's hard enough to get a SM who can always attend.

Potentially a good idea and a good idea for new patrols that might need more guidance (?? troop guide ??).

But for what it's worth, I'd kill the idea and just make sure the SM and ASMs are around and watching. They can always provide a friendly word if needed. But to formalize it scares me.

Mr. Texas,

Not sure why you're having an issue with this. Volunteers don't get paid. Correct. PLUS even more so, volunteers often pay to go on camp outs and also cover many incidental expenses. How about gas money and their car use for a multi-hour drive.

But to then go and ask them to pay BSA dues is beyond basic courtesy. For I bet 90+ percent of the troops and packs, the scouts and the unit fundraisers pay for the adult registrations.

The real issue is when does someone become a committee member? Every parent that shows up? Only if you help? Help at how many events? What type of event? i.e. If you have a parent pickup the pizza for a Christmas party, does he have to register?

IMHO, committee members are the people you choose to call committee members.

The real big trouble is small mindedness that blows off this issue. The dues increase is a huge issue and messes up our finances. In my two units, we are dropping 6+ adults at least if not more.

Remember --- Individuals do not recharter themselves. The unit recharters them and the unit writes the check.

In the last 10 or 12 years, it has gone from $9 per person to $24. That is a big increase. A 50 member unit was rechartering for $500. Now they need to spend $1200. That is a new trailer every four years. That is all the advancements plus some for a year.

We are dropping as many adult volunteers as possible to save funds too. They are still there, but we will keep the funds. They key is we are registering direct contact leaders (SM, ASM). Non-direct are not registered if possible.

Sometimes it's hard to punish the right person. We used to teach our son that it's usually the person who reacts who gets punished. As such, we tried to teach our son to stand up for himself but not necessarily to fight back.

I think something similar is needed here. The broken situation needs to be made whole by the person who did the act performing some form of restitution to the person who was damaged. Or some reasonable and timely substitute.

But as for the instigator ... the kid who sews the trouble ... I'd approach that both individually (one on one) and also as a whole troop.

Scoutmaster minutes? Talks? Character building. Anti-bullying videos. Other. The other scouts need to learn to think for themselves, to recognize the manipulation and to call people on it.

Bank access - Troop - CC, SM, Treasurer, adv chair... pack - CC, CM, treasurer

How many committee members? We're changing on that this year. We have lots of parents that step forward. The best thing we do is when a parent volunteers for something, we smile, say thank you and get out of their way. We want them to keep helping and not make it more difficult.

The reason it's changing is budget. When I started years ago, it was $9 or $10 to register an adult. 5 committee people was $50. We've grown and added more. Now it went from $15 to $24. At $24, those five are $120. But we actually had seven registered. We're going down to the bare minimum. Unregistering my wife. Unregistering those who only help with one event. Plus we re-register in december. So we are un-registering anyone who's gone in a few months. We are trying to be good financial stewards of our pack funds. And it's alot of money for little return.

Troops and packs need lots of parents to help. Direct contact leaders need to be registered. But official committee members? We'll hit the minimum and be happy.

I'm cutting a $2300 check to recharter the pack this fall. $37 per youth (boy's life included) and $24 per registered adult. We also buy books and advancements for them. Look at the cost of the pins and belt loops lately? We're debating as a pack if we will even buy books for the cubs next year? It's a lot of money every year at $8 per book and most cubs rarely open their books.

Anyway ...units need lots of help and should be open and welcoming. Officially, if they are not direct contact, hit the bare minimums.

At one time we had the boys going to the designated Troopmaster data-entry person (a committee member), who was present at every troop meeting with a computer, EVERY TIME they had a requirement signed off in their books. It should not surprise anyone that this system broke down after awhile (especially after that guy left the committee when his son Eagled/aged out of the troop, and the current holder of that position does not attend every troop meeting, but also because it is hopeless to expect every Scout to actually go see an adult each time a T-2-1 requirement is passed.) The system now is that one of the procedures to be followed when completing a rank, and before asking for a Scoutmaster's Conference, is to arrange with the current data-entry person to have the sign-offs entered into the computer. That also means that the Board of Review members have a mostly up-to-date report (printed from Troopmaster) of the Scout's advancement status, merit badges, POR if any, etc., for review at the BOR, plus there is usually a reasonably up-to-date backup available if the Scout loses his book. All that will have to be reconstructed are the requirements passed since the last BOR. (I actually have suggested to some Scouts that they also photocopy the requirements pages from their books every couple of months or so, especially those Scouts whose books look like they have been left out in the rain too many times, but I doubt that many photocopies have been made.)

The main role of the AC is to collect rank and MB advancements, submit them to the council for recognition and acquire them for the courts of honor ... at least in our troop. Our AC does not track partial rank advancements anymore than tracking individual requirements of each and every merit badge. But that's our troop.

I've been more and more impressed with the reports I can get from ScoutNet. Plus, that's the record of truth that I have access to using and it serves me fine. Scouts have their handbooks. That should serve them fine too. The rest is noise.

At one time we had the boys going to the designated Troopmaster data-entry person (a committee member), who was present at every troop meeting with a computer, EVERY TIME they had a requirement signed off in their books. It should not surprise anyone that this system broke down after awhile (especially after that guy left the committee when his son Eagled/aged out of the troop, and the current holder of that position does not attend every troop meeting, but also because it is hopeless to expect every Scout to actually go see an adult each time a T-2-1 requirement is passed.) The system now is that one of the procedures to be followed when completing a rank, and before asking for a Scoutmaster's Conference, is to arrange with the current data-entry person to have the sign-offs entered into the computer. That also means that the Board of Review members have a mostly up-to-date report (printed from Troopmaster) of the Scout's advancement status, merit badges, POR if any, etc., for review at the BOR, plus there is usually a reasonably up-to-date backup available if the Scout loses his book. All that will have to be reconstructed are the requirements passed since the last BOR. (I actually have suggested to some Scouts that they also photocopy the requirements pages from their books every couple of months or so, especially those Scouts whose books look like they have been left out in the rain too many times, but I doubt that many photocopies have been made.)

Troopmaster looks nice and useful, but I think it is busywork. If a troop is boy run, which reports do the boys run out of Troopmaster? Are the boys carrying around three-hole punched reports out of Troopmaster?

Let the scout manage his handbook. Let the adult leader maintain his ledger of the next advancements to be submitted to BSA and purchased.

$40 really? Not worth it.

- Read the eagle packet.

- Read the GTA section ... if you want.

- Talk to your troop eagle coach

- Talk to the district eagle advancement contact ... if appropriate

Charging $40 just seems out of place. Must be something special to charge $40.

I must have 20+ sleeping bags in our garage. Most I just keep rolled as I don't think it matters that much for the average bag as long as you dry and air them out after using them. Anything below Walmart, Target, or Coleman are just not that sensitive ... IMHO. But ... I do treat my ultra light bag and my -40 degree bag very differently. Hang and leave un-rolled. I paid over $200 for each and their performance depends on being stored uncompressed. But I just don't think it matters that much for the low end sleeping bags. It also depends on what the internal material is and lighter bags do depend more on fluffyness.

The big need for the form is so that scout eagle projects do not compete with council fundraising. i.e. friends of scouting, popcorn sales, etc. Councils don't want individuals put in situation where they decide whether to donate to friends of scouting or an eagle project.

As for what happened here, a good attached explanation is fine. My real worry, which is not a show stopper, is that the scout might face questions about his leadership. Whose project was it? Who led the money raiser? I would just make sure the explanation says that the beneficiary handled and collected the funds. That's fine. But if they coordinated and led everything, that's not so good.

If your troop uses TroopMaster' date=' then he can ask the Advancement Chair to input the information there.[/quote'] Asking someone to do your work isn't a plan, it's a dodge. Work three or four badges at a time, and get them done. That's the best way.

Fully agree. Our troop records "completed" achievements. In progress achievements should be managed by the scout.

Keep his blue cards tucked in his BSA handbook. And/Or get a handbook cover and put the blue cards in a zippered pocket in the cover. The completed requirements should be initialized on the card.

The absolute worst solution would be to have a parent or a troop advancement coordinator organize and keep the merit badge cards safe. A close runner up is a over emphasized, over engineered solution.

The blue card is a simple tool and needs a simple solution for keeping organized. If the scouts lose them, we shouldn't put them on a guilt trip as much as ask what happened and work with them to recover the situation.

Lots of opinions exist on this and many many many are wrong. Period. Read what BSA says in the Guide To Advancement. You can't go wrong if you do your best to implement the program you signed your name to running on your BSA application.

 

Read GTA section 4.2.3.1 ... "impact" ... "making a difference" .... "reasonable" ... "a lesser level of activity is explained"

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

 

 

Want clarifications? Read the advancement news.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...ment_News.aspx

Basementdweller ... as you mention, remove the scout if appropriate. ... AND ... work with the scout to decide how much time the scout thinks he should get credit for time served. It's a joint decision, not a SM only decision and more with what the scout thinks he deserves.

First thing, the ASPL is not an elected position it is an appointed position by the SPL.

 

 

 

We have an attendance policy it is 75% for normal membership and 90% for Leadership and the only thing it applies to is requesting a BOR. The CC will not see a lad if he does not meet those requirements.

 

 

I would discuss with the SPL what he would like to do. I would try to guide the SPL into asking the lad to do the right thing, which in my opinion is stepping down in my opinion.

 

Second under no circumstance does he meet the requirement of 5. While a First Class Scout, serve actively in your unit for four months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility.

Life happens. Lad prefers work and money to scouting no problem

The funny thing is that you recommend exactly what the GTA says should happen ... removing the scout. If a scout isn't doing the job, remove him. That's even what the GTA says. And that's the type of stones the GTA expects leaders to have. But the GTA exists to protect scouts from abusive leaders.

Keep his blue cards tucked in his BSA handbook. And/Or get a handbook cover and put the blue cards in a zippered pocket in the cover. The completed requirements should be initialized on the card.

KDD - Money is a different but similar. If the kid is carrying around $10 and loses it, then fine. The world won't end. If the kid is carrying around $10,000 then I'd want him to find a better solution. Heck, it seems that a good number of scouts every summer are dealing with lost money and learning to take care of their things.

If a guy is missing but he still get's his guys organized and ready than we are open to an argument. And we allow them to count the time during a "summer lull". I think the whole thing is kinda messed up by BSA's over-emphasis on building leadership to validate the program. Some POR's are more management than leader as has been discussed on this site ad infinitum. The world needs good staff officers too. The air traffic controller might not be a natural leader of men (I acknowledge he needs to be assertive) but it sure as hell important.

First thing, the ASPL is not an elected position it is an appointed position by the SPL.

 

 

 

We have an attendance policy it is 75% for normal membership and 90% for Leadership and the only thing it applies to is requesting a BOR. The CC will not see a lad if he does not meet those requirements.

 

 

I would discuss with the SPL what he would like to do. I would try to guide the SPL into asking the lad to do the right thing, which in my opinion is stepping down in my opinion.

 

Second under no circumstance does he meet the requirement of 5. While a First Class Scout, serve actively in your unit for four months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility.

Life happens. Lad prefers work and money to scouting no problem

Lots of opinions exist on this and many many many are wrong. Period. Read what BSA says in the Guide To Advancement. You can't go wrong if you do your best to implement the program you signed your name to running on your BSA application.

Read GTA section 4.2.3.1 ... "impact" ... "making a difference" .... "reasonable" ... "a lesser level of activity is explained"

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

Want clarifications? Read the advancement news.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...ment_News.aspx

I created campout attendance requirements. It makes it so much easier to have the discussion Eagledad mentions. What I'm learning is the clearer the expectations the easier it is for the boys to grasp them and harder for them to fudge them. The SPL or ASPL has to be on every campout baring an act of God. Same for PL and APL of each patrol. The PL is expected to go on most of the campouts (yes, that's fuzzy for a reason).

 

My PLC just had to deal with a PL that hasn't been on a campout with his patrol since he became a patrol leader 4 months ago. The expectations above triggered a discussion with the boy and the PLC that was good. Turns out he's in over his head with all sorts of activities. They finally agreed that it would be good for the PL to swap with his APL until he can get things under control. The participation requirements made it easier to start this conversation. It's a tool, I try to use it wisely.

Your troop can do as it wants as long as no one knows better ... but if challenged and put against the BSA GTA, the GTA uses the phrase reasonable and measures against competing issues.

*** READ GTA section 4.2.3.1 *** ... "impact" ... "making a difference" .... "reasonable" ... "a lesser level of activity is explained" ...

Personally, I'm glad my troop does not have your attendance requirement. It's forces the older boys choose between scouting and other activities. I'm afraid at 14 / 15 years old, many will choose the other activities and it's the beginning of the end of their scouting career. It also puts the focus on the wrong place. Scouting is about character and advancement is not gate keeping.

Our troop's approach is to make sure the scout knows his job and help him learn how to do his and see that's it gets done. He doesn't have to be there to execute his job. He has to lead such that his responsibilities are fulfilled. It's a learning experience for everyone.

I think people upset at these things didn't realize how draconian the old "policy" had become. A lad that thought he might find men attractive (even if he dating women) violated the old policy and could be kicked out. Attending a gay resort, despite no evidence that one engaged in any behavior was grounds for termination. Joining a high school LGBT tolerance group was reason for dismissal. It went beyond practicing gay youth, it was anyone who expressed any curiousity. Under the new policy, which is being clarified. BSA has no opinion in gay tendencies, and units can't kick a youth out for simply having tendencies, but they can make any rules they want on sexual activity, or any other activity. Now can we please stop talking about the sexual desires of teenagers. It creeps me out.

- Old policy was draconian? Not really. From what I saw, the policy was mainly imposed when someone was trying to make a statement about the policy being wrong. Essentially boxing in the BSA on it's own beliefs. There were no witch hunts. There were no 20 question interviews.

- BSA has no opinion? Again, I'm not sure that's entirely clear. BSA never removed any previous statements. It just says youth are better off in scouting than not in scouting. Previous statements about morally straight have not been revoked. Adults can still be band.

- Youth can still be removed from units. The change was BSA membership, not unit membership. Any unit can remove youth for any reason, as it should be. If you want to take a stance opposite of what my church teaches, then find a scouting unit that is sponsored by a church or community group that supports your beliefs.

- Creeps you out? It's the political groups that have chosen to use BSA and the youth BSA serves as a battle ground that should creep you out. People are looking for changes in politics and beliefs and are willing to destroy the BSA to achieve their end. I know BSA isn't perfect, but it's hard to find a group with a better cause or purpose than the BSA.