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OA Elections are set down in the official OA manuals, I think specifically in the Guide for Officers and Advisors. The Lodge Rules (aka Bylaws), would only specify when they occur. To be eligible, a boy must have earned First Class Scout, have completed 15 days/nights of camping, 6-7 of which must be in a long term BSA camp (this can be summer camp, high adventure program, jambo, etc), and scoutmaster approval. Regardless of WHEN the Lodge holds their elections (some go to the units, some do it at a summer camp or camporee), the LODGE (more specifically the election team), should be

My understand (based on speaking people who are on the National Committee and connected with the National committee) is that: * the Sea Scout Manual is actually subsidized. That is how the book is fairly inexpensive for its size/binding/etc. * while there has been work on making a new Skipper Manual (I have a soft copy of what is supposed to be the next edition of it) and a Crew Leader Manual, due to costs, these will probably NOT be published. * due to size and costs, what is being talked about (MIND YOU, this is just TALK), is to reduce the size of the Sea Scout Manual, and m

"No more than 3 rows of knots for WB staffers??? What's the point of that? Sheesh." I'm not aware that they are changing that rule. AFAIK, WB staffers are supposed to have 'stripped down' uniforms (only wearing the world crest, american flag, CSP, WB office patch, and that's about it). If this is changing, haven't heard it. In Sea Scouting, adults are only supposed to wear 2 rows. No idea why, as there is no restriction on naval personally on the number of ribbons.

I have no idea if National is thinking about getting rid of the Venture Patrol. Many have thought that. Some think it will come. I tried asking the people in the Boy Scout Booth at National Jamboree, but all were volunteers and had no idea. (almost as bad as the response I got from them at the 2001 Jamboree, when they had no idea what the Venture Patrol was!) National has recently (without telling anyone) taken away the use of the Venture/Varsity letter and pins. Now only Varsity Scout Teams can use it (and Venture could since 1989!). See my letter to the editor in the September

Actually, Sea Scouts have had a requirement for Ordinary since that award was created in the 1920s to: "Recruit a new member for your ship and follow through until the new member is registered and formally admitted."

Dana- Because Sea Scouts are part of Venturing, every Sea Scout Ship is a Venturing Crew (a special type of venturing crew). This means that in addition to the Sea Scout program, they can do anything within the Venturing Program, including earning any of the Venturing Awards. As to your question. In Sea Scouts, the council-level is called "Squadron". "Flotilla" is the Region. All Sea Scout Ships in a council are part of the Squadron (if such is organizied), and should be sending an adult representative to the Squadron meetings. Other Venturing Crews, if they are NOT Ship

"Thanks for the information. Our Scout Store has never had anyone request devices, but she is going to order some for us. And I'm very happy to find out that my son was not wearing his knot on his Boy Scout uniform all year in error! " Really? That's suprising. The knot devices are also used by scouters to indicate they've received multiple awards from different programs and the like. I wear a couple on my uniform for that purpose. "Are the devices like the Web activity pins or arrowpoints? I hope they stay on well and that the backs don't try to fall off like other pins. " T

Yeah, well, thank National. Those of us involved in Venturing since day 1 (August, 1998) have been dealing with the confusion National created. Telling people to stop saying "Venture Crew" or using the term "Venture Scouts", etc. I wasn't too happy they were going to call Venturing units "Crews", as I knew it was going to be confused with "Venture Crew", which were renamed "Venture Patrol". I wished (and even proposed) that they use a different term. There have been rumors for some time that National was/is going to get rid of the Venture Patrol. Hasn't happened yet. But eve

Madkin- Again, you are mixing terms. "Venture" and "Venturing" are TWO separate programs within the BSA. Which are you asking about??? "Venture" is an optional program for Boy Scout Troops to form a Venture Patrol from their older boys (13+) to do high adventure/sports stuff apart from the troop. This forum is not about them. "Venturing" is BSA's co-ed program for 14-21 youth. Venturing Crews are forms in one of 5 speciality areas: Outdoor/High Adventure, Sports, Arts/Hobbies, Youth Ministries, and Sea Scouts. Venturing was formed in 1998 when the BSA split off the non-care

Madkins- LOVE your enthusiasm, but please use the correct terms. This is the Venturing program, not the venture program. Youth in Venturing are Venturers, not Venture Scouts. Not sure what you mean by "I have NO idea what it can do for our unit". Venturing Crews are separate units from Boy Scout Troop, or Packs or Teams. Its not a part of Boy Scout Troop, but a separate group. What they can do its keep your older youth IN Scouting, if not in your troop, and these older youth can return and help out your unit, but on their terms, not yours. Please check out the Venturing sec

"Can aquatic interest Venturing Crews be affiliated with Sea Scout Ship and do a similar program to what a ship does. Maybe something like seamanship interest or mariner interest. These crews be marine interest but attend regattas and Sea Scout events and could they be a part of a fleet, squadron, or flotilla , as well as part of the district? " Uh, why don't you just have your aquatic-interest VenturING Crew just BE a Sea Scout Ship??? Every Sea Scout Ship is a Venturing Crew.

Two comments. " The secret - be open minded to "Crew" activities and have an active calendar of events. We are chartered as a High Adventure / Outdoor Crew but not all our activities are "Outdoor" events. This was hard for some of the Advisors that felt that all activities needed to be "Outdoor" if we were chartered that way. " The specialty is just your 'main focus', not a restriction on what you do. There is nothing wrong with a HA/Outdoor Crew doing the occasional social event, fundraiser, service project. It only because a problem if you become a purely social group when you're

"We had created a CD with information for them which included four sample tickets covering Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, Venturing, and Commissioner Services. These were to be used as a sample to help the TG working with patrols in guiding them with their tickets. Also, we included a breakdown of each day and the duties of the troop guide. It made a big difference in 2004 and I think it will make a greater difference in 2006. " This is something you should share with other WBers! See if you can get the people who run www.woodbadge.org to put this material on-line. I know that my first

"On money raising BSA Vs GSUSA. The GSUSA has huge money contributor in the cookie sales. Our popcorn sales can't even come close. Thus BSA dues must be higher to compensate. " AFAIK, Girl Scout cookie sales fund National, Councils, and units. Boy Scout popcorn sales only goes to councils and units. Nothing goes to BSA National.

"I am in a new council (well, new to me, that is) that doesn't have a strong Venturing program. I spoke with the DE of my District, and he said they haven't been able to excite local kids about it." My experience is that if you spend the time promoting the program, you can find many kids who are excited about it. I have to wonder what they were doing that wasn't successful. Where they really promoting the Venturing program, or someone's incorrect perception of the program?

FYI- There is no such organization as the "GSA". The group you are referring to is the Girl Scouts of the USA, abreviated GSUSA. Do not make the mistake of referring to them as 'GSA'.

While an interesting review (I have been planning on getting the book myself, anyway), I should point out that the BSA is most certainly NOT a 'Christian institution'. It is open to people of many faiths. At the Jamboree, there were booth for the Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim (2 different groups, in fact), and many other faiths. And the recognized religious awards include Hindu, Shinto, and other non-judeochristian faiths.

Uh, which program are you refering to? Venture and Venturing are two different programs in the BSA. Venture is an option in-troop program (see both the Boy Scout & Scoutmaster handbooks) for boys 13 and older. They are formed into a Venture Patrol to do high adventure activities on their own without the rest of the troop. Venturing is the BSA's co-ed program for youth 14-21. Youth are formed into unit called Venturing Crews. Each Crew will have their own speciality in one of the 5 areas of Venturing: Outdoors/High Adventure, Sports, Youth Ministries, Arts/Hobbies, or Sea Scou

For those who care. I made some inquiries about the claimed changes to Sea Scout Uniforms. Per the National Commodore herself, there have been no changes to the uniforms beyond what exists in the current edition of the Sea Scout Manual (#33239C, 2002 printing). I do not know the source of such information, but it appears to be spurious.

All- This weekend, I took a look at my OA materials to see what I could regarding OA elections within Explorer units. this is what I found. OA National stopped OA elections in Explorer Posts in 1991! (this per the official OA history book, 3rd edition). The requirements over the years for Explorers to be elected into the OA changed. They ALWAYS required the same camping experience as scouts, but other requirements where: Until 1959, Explorers had to have earned Apprentice. During the 60s, Explorers didn't have to achieve any rank. After going co-ed, only MA

"Though I'll probably regret drawing myself into this, I feel the need to provide the following quote from http://www.seascout.org/ "The content of these pages is unofficial and may not reflect the official position of the National Sea Scouting Committee of the Boy Scouts of America" " Actually, the site is pretty official. The people who maintain it are part of the National committee. I know that the Southern Region use it as their official site for Southern Region Sea Scouting info, such as Sea Badge Courses, etc.

>Heck Mike lots of units do things wrong, there are >Venturing crews today that hold OA elections even though >they are not eligible. I was an Explorer in the 70s and a >Scoutmaster in the 80s and Explorers were not eligible >for OA elections then. I wasn't referring to what some units may be doing in violation of written policy. OA Operations Update 98-10 and 99-2 clearly says NO to elections in Venturing Crews. OA Policy did allow for elections of Explorers AS Explorers. I am uncertain when it was dropped, but it lasted atleast until Exploring went co-ed in 1971,

Some co-ed Scouting facts: BSA in 1969 allowed Girl Scouts & Camp Fire Girls to be participants in Explorer Posts. In 1971, BSA then took Exploring co-ed. So the BSA has had to deal with the 'issue' of a co-ed program for 14-21 youth for over 30 years. Also, in 1976, Camp Fire Girls went co-ed. They later changed their names to Camp Fire Boys & Girls, and currently are Camp Fire USA.

"Mike, so you've been putting up this arguement based on what you remember from the past? The new national standard has the bugs gone as are the youth dress blue uniform. I believe the National Commodore wants all ships uniformed uniformly. So, we've done it, and you would surely recommend to any new unit to stay with the current guidelines. I would anyway. " It's not based on what I "remember from the past", but from what I know from the past based on the documents, and from first-hand information on those who were involved in the programs. If the National Committee has changed the

>I must have some of the earlier Crew 697 knots. I felt >the colors were just a bit off, and that the dimensions >were off from Ofiicial Supply Division stuff. Yeah, the first bunch weren't quite there. Their stuff now is fine. >There used to be a group listed on the old Sea Scout site >named 'Why Knot' and they seemed to have a full >compliment of colors and knots, but sadly, I haven't been >able to actually contact them. I never was able to contact them. Seemed the person doing it didn't quite have the time to respond, etc. The knots at the Ship's