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Dear Scamp, I don't think you mean to say that you will never judge fitness for membership. We do this all the time on those occasions when a youth is so disruptive or engages in dangerous behavior that we have to suspend or terminate his membership. What I think you mean to say, is that absent overt behavior or a "coming out" by a member who may be gay, you are not going to judge fitness for membership on the sexual orientation issue. That is my understanding of the national BSA policy and I think that is what you are agreeing to.

I have been wondering where other scouting organizations were coming out (pardon the play on words) on the gay issue. Now we know. Of course the Europeans are not the rest of scouting worldwide. The issue of gay rights is creating quite a ruckus at the United Nations as well, because a lot of countries with other dominant cultures, notably Islamic countries, have an even more restrictive view. These countries also have scouting movements. Finally, since when did Steven Cozza become an expert on American Culture? I don't presume to speak for him, and he should not presume to speak for

The announced policy in this Massachusetts council as I understand it is not too different from what the San Francisco Bay Area Council did about two years ago. This West Coast council adopted a "don't ask - don't tell" policy, and indicated that it would not automatically expel gays. I don't know how this has worked in practice. By the way, has anybody seen the cover story in Newsweek about boy scouts? The article exceeded my expectations in that Newsweek did not appear to take sides on the issue of homosexuals in scouting. I fully expected a negative story.

I picked up the following item this morning. Can anyone provide more information? Boston-Area Scout Unit to Allow Gay Leaders -Report BOSTON (Reuters) - One of the largest Boy Scout councils in Massachusetts has adopted a policy that will allow gay scoutmasters to be affiliated with some local troops as long as they do not discuss their sexual orientation, The Boston Globe reported on Wednesday. Brock Bigsby, Scout executive for the council, told the newspaper the carefully worded ``don't ask, don't tell'' policy, quietly approved last month, is consistent with the National Boy Sc

When I trekked at Philmont six years ago, lunches were "spreadables" and crackers. Spreadables were generaly tuna or shrimp. Do you suppose that PETA has gotten to the Philmont commissary people too? I smell a vast conspiracy here!

I think he was overtaken and consumed by agents of AETP (Animals Eating Tasty People).

The story below deals with developments in Southern Florida - again. While I think I am tolerant, I have always been clear that I support the BSA's position regards adult members. I don't honestly know how I would deal with a scout who came to me in confidence and said that he was gay. BSA policy says throw the kid out. I am not sure that is the right solution for such a youth. The "settlement" described below apparently will lead scouters to refer such youth to gay groups and gay programs for youth. While such a youth would certainly find a welcome in such places, wouldn't this be like

Sorry to hear about the bad experience. However it sounds to me like there is a problem with an individual, not a program. Probably all crews could benefit from some briefing (play on words not intentional) on the need for modesty before hitting the trail, and this need is not confined just to Philmont. Coming back to the individual, your story just shows that competence as an attribute does not discriminate across the sexes, just as it does not discriminate across the races. Better luck next time.

Sorry to hear about the bad experience. However it sounds to me like there is a problem with an individual, not a program. Probably all crews could benefit from some briefing (play on words not intentional) on the need for modesty before hitting the trail, and this need is not confined just to Philmont. Coming back to the individual, your story just shows that competence as an attribute does not discriminate across the sexes, just as it does not discriminate across the races. Better luck next time.

Mike Long - worms have feelings too. Shouldn't you be using an artificial lure of some kind? Of course that may become "fishing debris." My we are conflicted aren't we.

A somewhat troubling story about the use of images. Boy Scout In TV Ad Is Opposed To Fishing By PHIL LEMOS The Hartford Courant July 13, 2001 Justin Aligata said he feels the conflict every time he puts on the Boy Scout uniform. The West Hartford teen doesn't understand why the Boy Scouts of America offers merit badges in fishing when the organization's 1998 handbook says a scout "does not harm or kill any living thing." Now he's really causing ripples. Aligata is starring in a commercial from the nonprofit People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals that airs on

Agreed.

The two relevant dates are the scoutmaster's conference and the board of review. Date of rank is from the board of review date, not the court of honor. This is important for the time in grade requirement for the next rank. The court of honor is literally a formality, an important and useful formality, but a formality nevertheless.

jmcquillan is right. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Personally I think a system that integrates new boys into existing patrols is better, but I can see advantages and disadvantages to both ways of doing business. If it has worked for your troop in the past, why change?

ckleisch, The method of handling funds sounds consistent with the way that our lodge and chapters work. I don't think that our lodge even has a separate bank account, much less a chapter. I don't know why this is so, but we have had no problem making the system work. It seems odd that someone at the council level would communicate this kind of message about council control of funds. You may be talking to the wrong person.

duty to god A scout is reverent. One of the unique aspects of scouting as a youth movement, nor merely an organization, is the incorporation of a non sectarian acknowledgement of god and a vague duty to god, as operating principles. In an increasingly irreligious, indeed almost nihilistic, world it becomes increasingly difficult to get the boys attention for even a thirty second grace before a meal. Furthermore, although boy scouts are as confused and uncertain in their beliefs as other adolescents, showing any respect for religion at all is increasingly uncool. If god really

In putting up the original post I focused on ticks for a reason. While chiggers are more numerous and more annoying in different parts of the country, they are, after all, merely annoying. Ticks can be fatal. Several years ago, when we lived in Northern Virginia outside Washington, DC, it seemed that every summer a handful of people in Virginia died of Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. This is a perfectly treatable disease, but has to be recognized in time. It is also transmitted by certain species of ticks common to that area. In more recent years a new disease transmitted by ticks,

Apparently Mr. Morford's piece did not run in the San Francisco Chronicle but only ran on the sourced web site. The following correction was supplied to the Wall Street Journal's web site OpinionJournal.com by the news director for SFGate.com: "The Mark Morford column on Boy Scouts did not appear in the San Francisco Chronicle newspaper, nor is Morford an employee of the Chronicle. The article appeared only on SF Gate, a separately managed website that contains original material as well as Chronicle content, and was not reviewed by Chronicle editors prior to publication." Don't want

For those who are concerned about the quality of the dialogue on these issues, please take note of the diatribe below. "SF Gate" is affiliated with the San Francisco Chronicle, a major general circulation metropolitan newspaper (that I don't read). If this kind of stuff represents the genteel side of the critics of the Boy Scouts, imagine what is going on elsewhere. To keep jmcquillan's admonition in mind, this is not the level we want to get to. We want to stay above this. Jesse Prefers Straight Boys A homophobic senator, the Scouts, and the sad truth about American politics

The apparent action by the council in Rochester, New York sounds similar to something the San Francisco Bay Area Council did a few years ago. As far as I know this West Coast council was the first to have a "don't ask - don't tell" variation of the national policy. The idea of letting the chartered organization establish a policy also deserves more exploration. Since so many units are chartered to churches, this would effectively shift the burden back to those who object most strenuously to homosexuality. In a different thread a few months ago, there were heated exchanges about public

I'd like to respond further on the competitive aspects of camporee and, to use my own phrase, "ability grouping." The problems I have seen come from the other end of the spectrum. I have seen stacked patrols where no boy in a particular patrol was less than a life scout. I also know of one troop that does not allow its first year scouts to even go to camporee. This also results in stacked patrols. I don't know of an effective way to address this problem. One has to assume that the adult leadership of each unit is approaching camporee in a consistent fair minded manner, but there is no ef

Now that is an impressive post. With footnotes no less. Thanks for the info.

jbroganjr, If you think this thread is scary, you ought to go back to some of the prior threads. The more recent dialogues in this forum have been quite civilized. Another point about pedophilia and homosexuals. I agree with jmcquillan in that I know of no data that support the idea that homosexuals are more aggressive pedophiles than heterosexuals. The people in the gay community make just the opposite claim. Where do these data come from?

I managed to catch about three fourths of this last night, and it was not nearly as bad as I expected. The apparent treatment of David Rice does disturb me. No one gives up their right to free speech when they join the boy scouts, and I don't think that BSA national or anybody else is interested in instituting a "thought police" regime in scouting. I know more than a few active scouters who are troubled by the national policy, and free and frank discussion among scouters of this issue, like any other issue bearing on the organization, should be encouraged, not suppressed. However, the docu

The following post is from the Washington Times. I haven't seen this documentary yet. Has anyone else seen it? PBS film on Boy Scouts slammed as one-sided By Elianna Marziani THE WASHINGTON TIMES The Public Broadcasting Service tomorrow will air a documentary that reportedly takes issue with the Boy Scouts policy of excluding homosexuals. But conservatives are determined to block it. Foes of the film say it is one-sided and misuses public money. "Its one thing if [the documentarys producer, Tom Shepard] were to produce a film on his private dime. But when