Eamonn

While I still have no idea what a Venturing Association might be. If this is some way of getting around the Chartered Organization requirement? I don't think that it is going to fly. I don't have a copy of the agreement that is signed by the BSA and the Chartering Organization but it does have specific requirements. I feel sure that if our DE arrived at a key3 meeting with a new unit application with some out of the area Association with no local ties listed as the CO. We wouldn't accept it. Eamonn.

Wow Acco, You have set the little gray cells into overdrive. I have always held the ideals of Scouting above everything. I agree that a Patrol is a Patrol and should stay that way, no matter what. IMOHO, I think that Advancement is the method that gets the most abuse? I think I can see where the wise people at PTC are coming from. I think they are saying this is a package deal. Have give this some thought. Eamonn

Singling one or two boys out to do an activity as a form of punishment is wrong. It doesn't matter if the activity is singing a song, standing in the corner, doing push-ups. It is not the way we do things. It is Hazing plain and simple. EagleKY I'm not sure that I understand the question. Scouts in a troop have made a promise to do their best to keep the Scout Law. The Troop is made up of Patrols. The Patrols are teams who get the job done. The Scoutmaster trains the Patrol Leaders how to be leaders. There are different styles of leadership. Some of which are unacceptable." Do this or I will beat the heck out of you!!" Is not acceptable. "Do this or I will have the Scoutmaster drag you up in front of the entire Troop to do push-ups. Is not acceptable." Leadership is a skill that we believe can be taught. When there are problems in a patrol one of the first things we look at is the Leadership of the patrol. Under the heading of Leadership we look at a list of things. If it seems that a member of the Patrol is not living up to the Scout Oath and Law. If it seems that he is having a problem with "Scout Spirit." That is when the Scoutmaster will step in and have a word. If the bad behavior continues, the Scoutmaster should pass this on to the Troop Committee. I don't see the role of the PL or the SPL being that of the Punisher. Within a patrol there is at times conflict, how the PL manages it or deals with it could be a sign of how good a job has been done in passing on the skill of leadership. Eamonn

You in your posting say not to tell you to go to the Charter Rep or the other leaders. Then you ask where to go? All the Leaders in the pack were selected by the Chartering Organization. Everybody "Works" for the chartering organization. Believe me while the people who serve on the District and Council level, may feel for you and might agree that you have been treated badly or unfairly, other then kind words there is little or nothing that they can do. Maybe the Cubmaster is a power crazy nit. But he is the power crazy nit that they selected. What do you think should happen to the Cubmaster? Eamonn

I gave this some more thought Bob. It could be a long time from when the person who comes on board in Tiger Cubs and goes through Cub Scouting comes into the troop. Eamonn

" Shirt Power" Never heard that one before. I love it. Eamonn.

John hit the nail on the head when he said that there was a lot going on. First, I'm really sorry that you have this illness. While you may not want to make a big thing about it and might not want to discuss it. Try for a minute to put yourself in the shoes of the people who don't know about it and see a person who looks drunk. What are they to think? Sad as it may be they will think that he is drunk. You will need to explain this to the parents, the boys and the other leaders in the pack. I would hope that once they are in the know that they will be more supportive. Once you have an open line of communication with the Cubmaster, you might want to ask him why he is doing what he has done? From what you have posted the Cubmaster is out of control and does need some help. You might want to have a chat with your Unit Commissioner and see if he or she can help. You could of course give some thought to transferring to another pack. Eamonn.

While I as a rule go along with your way of thinking Beaver Guy. Sad to say I don't on this one. Having this little fellow have to stand up in front of the group and repeat the Scout Law is no different then having him stand up and sing "I'm a little teapot." Scout Law or not. You have singled out this Lad and are going out of your way to cause him to be embarrassed. While the term Safe Haven is no longer in the training's. I still go with the idea that we go out of our way to ensure that we don't harm a Scout in body or in spirit. Of course there are some Lads that will just shrug this off and not make anything of it, still there are others that might take it to heart and become so upset that they decide never to come back. I'm not sure if we want to use the words of the Scout Oath and Law as a punishment. Maybe instead of the SM and the ASM's meeting to discuss how to manage things it would be better if the PLC took a long hard look at it. Of course the best way to deal with this sort of thing is not to have it happen in the first place. Maybe the Adults and the SPL need to step back and look at the meetings. Look at when the Scouts act up. Look at which Scouts act up. Maybe there is a pattern? Maybe things could be changed to prevent the disruptive behavior. Do the meetings have a flow to them? Is everything ready for the next activity? Does everyone know what their part of the meeting is are they prepared? Are the announcements going on to long. When the Scouts line up for something would it be a good idea not to have Tim and Tom standing next to each other. I had a lot of luck with Scouts not misbehaving, when I explained the STAR to them. STAR meaning: S = Stop T = Think A = Act R = Reflect. Troop and Patrol Reflections are a super way of letting the Scouts that act up know that what they are doing is not appreciated. Done correctly there is no finger pointing, no one is embarrassed and the message gets through. When you are able to leave this in the hands of your Patrol Leaders you can know that things are heading in the right direction. It won't happen over night you will need to start with Troop Reflections and then move on to Patrol Reflections under the supportive eye of an adult that understands how they work and knows that the best thing he can do is nothing unless someone is getting hurt. Hurt by being singled out. If it is the same Lads doing the disrupting all the time, then the SM might want to have a word with them away from the ears of the rest of the troop, but of course following all the YP guidelines. Eamonn

Thanks Dale, I have little dealings with the Learning For Life program and never think to look at what they are up to. I did visit both the Exploring Pages and the LFL pages and have a question. Is there still an Exploring uniform? I know that there are still a lot of old ones around but if someone new wanted to buy one where would he/she get it and what does it look like? Eamonn

I have made a note of the titles and will pop into Barns and Noble in the very near future.Thanks for your help. I'm not sure how this ties in but... I have been more then a little testy of late. Her That Must Be Obeyed has had to have surgery and my Doc. changed the pills that I take for my aged back. OJ has soccer. There seems to be something to do with soccer every night of the week. Either training or a match. I love soccer, I used to play it a lot and have been a coach. This season with all the stuff going on at home I have been unable to make hardly any of the games. When he gets home he gives me a full report. This last two weeks the report has had a lot of reports of him "Taking People out." I wasn't happy. Last night when I picked him up he said that someone on the other team had knocked him over. He went on to say how lucky the kid was that he had moved before "I got him with my metal cleats." I became very upset and said that was not how to play the game. He became very defensive and said that the coach had told the team that they were to do whatever it takes to win. I said that if he couldn't play as a sportsman we would need to look at if he should play or not. He became very upset ad said that he was only doing what the coach had told him to do. I kept telling him that he knew better and that we don't do things like that. When we got home he went to his room and I phoned the mother of another Lad on the team, she asked her son and sure enough the coach has told these boys to do what it takes to win and even makes a joke when they take an opposing player out. I have an appointment to see the Principal on Friday. The Superintendent is on the District Committee. I know a good many of the Boys on the team many are Scouts. While none of them could be classified as little Angels. They are good kids. OJ, has always been a very kind type of kid. He has shown a great sense of justice and what is right and wrong. He has been playing soccer since he was five. We spent 11 years stressing sportsmanship. This coach has managed to undo it all in less then two months. I have met the coach and while I can't say that I know him. He isn't that charismatic. Yet somehow he has managed to change the mindset of these 16 year old boys. While a bunch of Lads playing soccer is a long way from a suicide bomber. The teams that our team plays are teams from the local area, some of the players are in the same troops as our Lads, some are friends and yet this Coach has got our Lads seeing them as the enemy. I spoke with OJ again when we both had calmed down and he admits that he knows what has been going on is wrong and he was doing it to keep his place on the team. Stuff like this does give me cause to worry. Eamonn

What is a Venturing Association? Eamonn

I thought at first that you must be joking. If you are not joking I would suggest that until you attend training that you have nothing to do with any of the youth members in our program. Push ups and that sort of activity that is doled out as a punishment is clearly hazing and has never been allowed by the BSA. Eamonn.

I must apologize, I do think that acronyms are a pain. CC is the Pack Committee Chair. COR is the Chartered Organization Representative. The pack is chartered by an organization, could be a church, a service Organization or a organization that shares the same values as the BSA does. When I was a Cubmaster our pack was chartered by a local Catholic church. The pack is an extension of the church. The church or who ever charters the pack owns the pack. The top man or woman in the Chartering Organization is the Executive Officer. As most of the top people are very busy. The BSA asks that they appoint a Representative to act as a sort of middle man. He or she reports to the chartering organization and to the Scouting unit. He tries to keep everyone updated and aware of what is going on. If you have a good one he will let the church know how the pack is coming along and what events they have planned. If the pack wanted to do a car wash in the church parking lot he would be the guy to ask the church. If the church wanted the pack to be part of a youth mass or some sort of ceremony the church would tell him and he would ask the pack. As the Chartered Rep, he has a standing invite to attend the District meeting. He or she is also a voting member. When the District presents the slate of officers for the coming year, it is the members of the District at large and the COR's that do the voting. A DE is a District Executive. He or she is the professional Scouter in your District. Many people think that the DE is the one with all the answers. If your District Executive is a good one the first thing that they will ask is "Have you spoken to your unit commissioner?" As for being pushy? I like people who push for what is right and push for the best deal for our youth. Eamonn.

Council Web sites can range from the spectacular to the dismal. Our Council is for the most part a wonderful Council. Our SE,has yet to learn how to turn off his computer. It has something to do with the Start!! He tells me me that he did sit in on a session about Web Sites at the last conference that he attended. Still I think that bringing him into the 21st Century might be a lost cause. You might be better off phoning the Service Center. Ask for the phone numbers of your District Commissioner, DE and Training Chairman. Ask if the Council has a newsletter and why you are not receiving it. They ought to be able to update the mailing list while you are on the phone. Call your District Commissioner and ask who your unit commissioner is? Tell him that you want to meet him or her as soon as possible. Give him the dates of your Pack Meeting and your Pack Committee meeting. If he says that there isn't a commissioner assigned to your unit, ask him to send the Assistant District Commissioner Cub Scouts or that you expect him to come and meet with you. Be pushy. Don't take no for an answer. If he knows the Training Dates have him give them to you. Ask if there is a Council Calender tell him to mail you one and that you will expect it in the mail this week. Call the Training Chair. and sign up for the training's. Call the DE say Hi. Let him or her know who you are. Say that you have spoken with the District Commissioner and that you are expecting a visit from the Commissioner Staff and you have asked that you be put on the Council Newsletter mailing list. You might want to ask if your COR is attending the District Committee meetings? Ask if an invite is being sent out to the COR. Phone the CC say that you have talked with the DE, ask the CC if the COR is attending the District Committee Meeting? Mention that the COR is invited to this meeting and really ought to attend and that maybe the CC should mention that he or she might mention it to the COR. If you know of someone who is a web site designer who might be willing to help the council. You might mention this to the DE when you see him or her at the training. Apathy can be turned around. If you are a little pushy and let the District know that you are willing to work with them and you expect them to do what they are supposed to do. The more your unit gets involved with the District: Attending Roundtable Meetings, having your COR attend the District meetings, the more information you will receive. Work with your Unit Commissioner, let him or her know that you expect to see them at least once a month. If you don't see him or her complain to the District Commissioner or the Assistant District Commissioner Cub Scouts. If you don't get the Council Newsletter, phone the Service Center and ask why? and tell them to put one in the mail today. They are there to be of service. Let them know that pack 123 is enthusiastic and will work with and for the District /Council. Tell them please don't come asking to do an FOS presentation if that is the only time that you will see them. Invite members of the key3 to pack events, Blue and Gold Banquets and the like. They might not make it every year but they like to be asked. Eamonn(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

No disrespect to Mike Walton. That site is about as official as this one is. I have found a lot of the stuff on that site to be just plain wrong. At times there is something that starts off right and then for some reason bits that are totally wrong or hearsay are added. I don't see any knot for the Young American Award on the BSA National Site. I don't think there is one. However I would give the Relationships Division in the National Office a call and double check. When you need facts about the BSA go to the BSA. Sites that deal with Scouting are a great place to find ideas for activities or to discuss things. Even our own Bob White, who is a wonderful resource would sooner have you look it up for yourself then just give you the answer. I know that I may be out of order talking for Bob. He is more then capable of talking for himself and will deal with me later if he feels the need. Eamonn

I spent about six years serving as the District Commissioner for our District. One of the most useful things that I do for me was to attend the Commissioner Service Conference at Philmont. I would strongly recommend this to any District Commissioner. It will go a long way in helping you be good at it. My big problem, when I took the job was finding real people that would really do the job. We had a lot of names and while the people were real they were in a lot of cases too old to do the job. Some said that they couldn't drive at night. Some needed help to get around. Some were just so out of touch with the program, that they had no idea what was going on. It seems that over the years when someone wasn't sure where to put someone they made them a commissioner. I do agree with the National policy that a Commissioner can not also serve as a unit leader. With the way that I was working at about that time, I was unable to make the commitment that I would be at a weekly meeting , a commitment that I feel you have to make in order to be a unit leader. Are you prepared not to have any dealings with our youth members? In all the time that I was District Commissioner, never once did I get a call from a youth member. I was very lucky in that I got on well with both the District Chairmen that were in office during my stint and I have got on well with the DE from her first day on the job. It does worry me a little bit that you were asked by the DE. I would take this as a sign that the District Nominating Committee is not doing their job, which I would take as a sign that the District Committee is not all that it could be. Of course I could be very wrong. Moving from Scouting in a unit to Scouting on the District or Council level can be an eye opener. Much of the time that we spend in our weekly key3 meetings is spent on matters of finance and membership. Life gets real crazy at rechartering time. As the District Commissioner getting the unit charters in on time is your baby. There are no acceptable excuses. One of my biggest challenges was recruiting commissioners. I found this to be an uphill task. I also had a hard time trying to keep commissioner service as the focus of the commissioners. It seemed that every time my back was turned someone was asking them to do something that took them away from the job at hand - Commissioner Service. I wish you the best of Luck. Eamonn.

I did know that Bob. I think that the new leader coming in for his first training is a little over whelmed with all the information that we throw at him. I would love to see the methods at the very start of the specific course. That way the trainers could stress after each session how, where and what method has been used. Still that is just an opinion of one - Me!! Eamonn

OJ used the computer and lost my page!! As I was saying Advancement: Advancement in Scouting is designed to present the Scout with a big challenge, which is then broken down into bite size pieces. Advancement is where a Scout learns to set goals, make plans that will help him meet these goals. He learns to motivate himself. He learns to do his best and keep trying. Along the way he will find out a lot about himself and his limitations and find ways of overcoming them. Personal Growth. A lot of times a Scout will find himself facing unfamiliar situations and in areas that he is unfamiliar with and will learn how to cope in these situations. This is part of his personal growth. Scouts learn personal growth through experiences and through Advancement. He will find his own self confidence. He will challenge himself, moving from "I can't." to looking for ways to say "I can," As his confidence grows he will look for greater responsibilities and challenges. He also learns how to make real decisions. Adult Association. Kids look to adults for guidance. Children look up to their parents. From their parents they get the example to live by. From teachers they get knowledge. We as adults in Scouting are the living example of the ideals of Scouting. We help the Scout with his personal growth and his self confidence. At times we adults are the safety net that makes Scouting work. We are there to offer the support and guidance needed to make the methods of Scouting work. Working with caring adults Scouts learn how to make their own way through the adult world. Leadership Development. Scouts learn to lead themselves. The Adults in Scouting are not there to lead the youth. They are there to guide the youth through the process of learning for themselves. This starts in the Patrol, where the chose their own leader. As a Scout becomes more experienced his opportunities for leadership increase. Leadership in Scouting includes making decisions and guiding the troop and the patrol.Planning the program, running the meetings. Scouts learn to lead by leading. They learn to lead by following their chosen leaders. Uniform. This is where this all started!! Uniform is an outward sign of a Scouts commitment to the ideals of Scouting. It shows that he accepts the ideals of Scouting and is willing to live by them. Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

I have to own up to having not been actively involved in the Boy Scout Specific Training course for a while. I do like the course and think that the videos are really good. Having said that, I don't know why the Methods of Scouting don't get discussed in detail till near the end. I suppose it would be possible to run a troop and not use all of the methods. I also believe that we as adults in the program need to know when to maybe lighten up on using one and "Push" one of the others. While it might be possible to not use all the methods, to not use them would to my way of thinking not be Scouting. While I feel sure that nearly all those who visit these forums know these Methods off by heart. I thought that I would go over them and how I see them. Of course "My take" and understanding might be different then yours. When it comes to understanding things, it might be that there is no right or wrong answers. Just the way that an individual sees things. Going along these lines, it is also very lightly that each individual could use a different style of leadership in using the methods. As ever I welcome your take and your ideas. Even if I disagree with them!! Scouting Ideals: While it might be possible to "Skimp" on some of the methods, this is the big one. The ideals are what Scout Spirit is all about. The ideals are outlined in the Scout Oath and Law, the Scout motto and the Scout slogan. This method defines everything that a Scout does and is.It challenges the Scout to do his best and even better then his best. Scout Spirit is the level of commitment that the Scout has to these ideals.When we look at Scout Spirit, we look at a Scout being : trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty,brave, clean, reverent,mentally awake, morally straight, physically fit and always prepared. As adult leaders we need to do all that we can to help Scouts strive for the ideals, we of course accept these ideals as a challenge for ourselves and do our best to lead by example. Patrols. This seems to be where there is a lot of misunderstanding. A Patrol is more then just a list of names. It is a team. A team where everyone has a job to do. The Patrol offers Scouts an opportunity for real leadership. If we the adults give the Patrol Leader real authority. Patrols are the basic unit of Scouting and are the ideal size for a group of Scouts as they work toward a common purpose or goal. Everything in Scouting can and should be done using the Patrol Method. Our Scouts can and do learn a lot of life skills and about citizenship in a Patrol setting. He learns about making decisions. Doing things for himself and working with for and with others as well as counting on others to do their part while he does his. Many adults are afraid to give the Patrol Leader the authority he needs to get the job done, because they think he is going to mess up. Others seem to think that once a Lad has the Patrol Leader patch on his uniform that there will be some sort of magical transformation!! It is the Scoutmasters main job to train the Patrol Leaders and be supportive of the Patrol Leaders. Some Patrol Leaders will need more support then others. This could be because of their age or because of their level of maturity. Outdoors. Doing stuff outdoors is what Scouting is all about. By just being a Scout the Lad will do stuff outdoors. A Scout program that doesn't have the Scouts doing activities outdoors is not much of a program. I would say that it is next to impossible to have a Scouting program without going outdoors. Scouting isn't School.Scouts don't learn stuff by sitting in s church basement or a classroom, they learn by going outside and doing things. Fun is the fuel of Scouting. Fun is camping in the woods,hiking the trail. This isn't rocket science. Boys have known about for years. Advancement. When advancement is managed correctly it is up there with the ideals of Scouting. When advancement is abused or misused it takes away from the ideals. Put very simply Advancement give Scouts something to do, a lot of it outdoors. It offers the opportunities for the patrol to work on something as a team. Advancement contributes to a Scouts personal growth, it provides opportunities for leadership and associations with adults (This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Tonight we had our second Jamboree Troop meeting. We will be Troop 412. The meeting was a blast, I had a great time and was over the moon when one little fellow on the way out said that this meeting was a lot more fun then the ones that he normally goes too. We managed to get a ton of work done and out of the way. Including the Troop elections a lot of team development games and we covered dreaded Announcement's. I can't work out why parents ask so many questions? We send out a News letter it went out via E-mail and by the USPS. Everyone knows that the Jamboree web site is up and running and where it is. Still they ask stuff that we have covered. The more time that I spent with the Scouts that are going the more I enjoy them. They are every bit as cheeky and enthusiastic as I ever was. We only have one Lad who went last time and the group is far younger then last time. But what they lack in experience they make up for with enthusiasm. My number one ASM. Is a very experienced Scoutmaster, who knows the program and likes the Scouts. He was a participant on a Wood Badge course In 1999 and had me as his Troop Committee member. Number two ASM, needs some work. He is a real nice guy. He was a Den Leader just as I was leaving the pack, he went on to become Cubmaster and has moved on into the troop with his two sons. From what he has said the Troop is busy going places and not that busy doing things. He will see that we don't work that way. The third ASM, is just a super Lad. He was with me last time as a Scout. He is the type of Scout that we all dream of having. Great attention to detail, great sense of fun. He is an Eagle Scout. He is also our Lodge Chief. I feel a little bad that we have elections in October, he is running again for a second term and of course the Lad running against him is OJ, my son!! I am not saying too much. I think that they are both two outstanding Scouts. One parent offered to take the popcorn sale. One offered to come and demonstrate the fine art of Hand Washing Scout uniforms and another offered to get a Troop web site up and running - Maybe that will help with the parents questions. We handed out the Jamboree Patch which the Scouts thought was "Cool" and informed the parents that the Council has agreed to allow them to buy Scout Stuff at cost. While none of them said that this was cool, they did seem happy. We are meeting again next week to cover the Jamboree Emergency Preparedness Award, with a chap from the American Red Cross. I don't get to spend a lot of time working with our Boy Scouts. This is "Real" Scouting. Working with them and getting to know them is worth every cent that I am paying to attend the event. We had a Jamboree Committee meeting last week and these guys are doing a wonderful job.If I ever go back to a troop I want to kidnap all of them. From where I stand now, it looks as if we are all going to have the best time ever. I can't wait for us to do the JLT and get these guys working. Barry You Are So Right. Eamonn (This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Have just read the CAN and CAN NOT posting. The BSA does not require that a person wear a uniform to be a member. So to refuse membership because a boy doesn't have one or doesn't wear one would be wrong. We do have the methods of Scouting, which when used in the right way do work. There is no rule that says you have to use the Patrol Method to be a Boy Scout Troop or that the Scouts have to Advance or do outdoor activities. These are the methods of Scouting, which lead to the Scouts getting the most out of this wonderful program. As a adult leader you can help the Scouts that you serve by using these methods in order to offer them opportunities to live up to the values of Scouting along with the Scout Oath and Law. We are all about helping our youth members being able to make ethical choices. While there are some DO'S and some Don'ts along the way, I don't see that we serve the needs of our Scouts or support them by giving them a big set of do's and don'ts. As leaders we use the different skills of leadership to help them reach a good decision or choice. When we have hard and fast rules that have to be followed and blindly obeyed we are not allowing them to develop the skill of making good choices. Eamonn

Hi and Welcome to the forum. I do wear the uniforms of the BSA. I suppose I am at an age where as long as it fits and feels OK I don't give too much thought as to what it looks like. Many years ago I used to worry about this stuff. When the British Scout uniform was changed to long pants, I didn't like them, I wanted flared pants. I went to a tailor and found material that matched the Scout pants and had a pair made. At that time I thought that I was the cats whiskers, now I think that I must have been a real twit. I do think that wearing the uniform is an outward sign that you are living up to the ideals of Scouting. It can at times be very misleading. I think many of us have seen that Scouts in uniform can get in as much devilment as Scouts not in uniform. My son does own a couple of uniforms and does wear them. He doesn't like the socks, and I have noticed that he no longer wears his Scout shirt to troop meetings, opting to carry it and put it on when he gets there. I'm not sure what that is all about. He is far happier wearing his uniform when everyone else is wearing their uniform. At times he is more picky about correct uniforming then I am. At the August OA weekend, he was in charge of colors on Saturday and refused to allow a couple of Lads to be part of the ceremony because they were not in full uniform. Some people looked at me as if I had put him up to it!! I hadn't. Some troops in the district wear the Activity uniform for their summer time troop meetings, only wearing the Field uniform for COH or other special occasions or events. I am not in agreement that a Lad turning up without a uniform, should be sent home. However I am a little unsure how I would over ride the PLC. I think that I would need to explain a few things to them in the hope that they would come around to my way of thinking. When I was a Scoutmaster we had the inter-patrol competition, with uniform as part of it. I do have to wonder why the parents are saying that wearing the uniform is not practical? If you are doing activities that damage the uniform maybe they have a valid point. I also can't help feeling that if your adult leaders and Patrol Leaders are wearing the uniform that you are almost there. Eamonn.

It is heart warming to know that you had such a wonderful time at Wood Badge. If there is such a thing as a Wood Badge "High", It is something that is shared by both those who staff and those who participate. For my sins in 2002 I was the Troop Guide for a Beaver patrol. It goes without saying in my eyes they were the best patrol ever!! I also think that the best job/position to have on the course is the Troop Guide position. You have Thanked everyone else, I would like to thank you and all of those who have Staffed a course. Not just for the time that the Staff members put in, the countless hours not just preparing the presentations, but all the time spent coming to an understanding of what each session really means and what you want to make sure that the participants really get out of the session. Near the end of the Cub Scout Wood Badge course that I attended a few years back. We met with the Cubmaster, she informed us that soon we would be going back to the real world and that Gilwell was a happy land that we would more then lightly never return to. I like to think that she was wrong. Maybe some never make it back to Gilwell, but all of those who attend Wood Badge do in their own way bring the "Happy Land" to others. After NE-IV-153, was over and I was sending the reports to the region, I thought just for the heck of it that I would try and see how many hours it would take for all the participants to get their Tickets done. I sat down and read each and every ticket. Of course this was a calculation that couldn't be done. I did end up feeling really good about myself. The idea that I in some way had helped these participants set goals that would do so much good for the youth members was and is a great feeling. Sad to say my time as a Wood Badge staff member is done. A ruling that I don't totally agree with, but can understand. I still do working with others have some input as to who will be selected as future staff members and that does bring me a lot of joy. I am still asked to be a Ticket Counselor, I do enjoy working one on one doing my best to help and support someone work on their goals and help them see how their Vision and there mission does have an impact on the people that they serve. I am glad that you had time for a nap. But nap time is over, it's time to move on to the next project!! Great Job Bob, and Well Done. Eamonn

Zippie, If you read what I posted you will see that I said "At times we fall into the trap of wanting" I never said that we all do. If I were the Boy and I heard that you were referring to the things that my parents are telling me as junk I would be upset. If I was the parent I would be insulted. I of course don't know the family, but history shows that Blacks in the USA have had a rough ride, starting with being brought over here as slaves. If the family are teaching their kids their heritage, if they are informing this Lad how blacks have been mistreated in the past. Is this the Junk that they are filling his head with? Even if you disagree with what they are doing, does this give you the right to pass it off as junk? Eamonn.

So who were you before? Eamonn