Eagledad

>>They manage to get dinner cooked, but then have to do dishes at 9:30 pm after the campfire instead of the planned "capture the flag" game. Everyone suffers for the poor planning, and a lesson is learned.

Hi Twocubdad By the way, you can have twoeagledad, I have have to get within seven digits to fit my license plate. Anyway, what you are describing is not an autism issue, but an adult one. A parent one really. I have learned the hard way several times that it is best to get EVERYONES expectations out up front. Everyone involved needs to talk about this and lay out the conditions. My experience is that mom will not change much with her son at this young age. As the son grows, she will get more comfortable with other people working with her son, better, but that will take time. I think we all would be this way. If your adults are scared of her, I would bring that out and explain her choices, one being that she doesn't have to join right now or this pack. I have a real concern in scouting which is adult leader burnout. One problem I have found are the Webelos who don't crossover into scouts in our area come from dens of burned out adults who provide bad programs. When we add stressful situations or people into the program, that makes the burnout problem even worse. So for the health of your scouts, leaders and program, have everyone meet and be honest about the fears and expectations for both the family and your program. In long run, everyone will appreciate it. Good luck, I've been where your at and it pulls at the heart. Barry

>>But is may be fun sometime to see how long a troop realizes the gear isnt getting unloaded and what they do about it. One a troop I knew had a camp out where the leaders didnt wake anybody up and never told anyone to start breakfast, around 10 am they woke up, literally and figuratively.

Hi All Hope you don't mind something a little different. I really enjoy some of the log on user names we see on this forum. I was wondering what some of them mean. Mine is pretty obvious, but this is from my license plate I had made after my favorite oldest son got eagle. I hope to change it to 2eagledad soon. Some seem more obvious than others, I would enjoy hearing everyones story. Barry

>>Teach these principles to your most mature scout, too, and your SPL/ASPL. You'll be doing them a favor too as these principles work for all kinds of people.

>>Bob White did a very good job of answering my question.

Hi NJ I understand, but come on. Someone in need has asked for help to fix a car and all the adults can say is your driving the wrong model. Like he has a big choice in the matter or has the ability to instantly change the adults program. First help the scout with his immediate needs then we can sit down and pow wow about his program. I know there are some who will preach the ideal program will solve all the problems. But my experience is you better understand the big picture first because no matter how good you build your program, it will have it's problems because boy run troops have lots of individuals and you can build for every unexpected situation that comes up. If you understand the big picture, your program will achieve the intended goals. There is too much attention given to the structure and not enough of the foundation. The program structure will go through a lot of struggles and test, but the foundation (big picture) never changes. You know, these guys are so amazing and God has given us the gift to help them. Leave the adult junk to the adults and help the scouts grow to be the men they are capable of being. Sorry for the soapbox, I can't help it. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>I appreciate that what you are doing works. But there are alot of things that you could do that "work". That fact that it works does not make it scouting. Hope this helps, bob White

Hi all This is a great idea. We do new scout orintation each year where we spend a great deal of time talking about advancement and answering questions such as these. I think this is a good place to do the Bob White thing and list the pages of the BSA publication that support the answers to all your questions. That prevents a lot of why does you troop do it this way when the other does it different. And it adds integrity to your adult leaders and program. A couple of questions I've heard a lot are does the SM sign a MB Card before the scout starts or finishes his MB? Can the parent be a conselor for most of the sons MBs? Can anybody be a MB counselor? Great job CharityAK. Barry

>>Sure didn't mean to sound like that...and if I did, I apologize. Rarely would I purposely attempt to come across that way. But if I did, I'd let you know without you having to guess.....:-)

>>Perhaps I'm just out of step with the 'new' definitions that society attaches to wrods here and there. But that's alright with me. I kinda like the old ones.

>>Furthermore, it appears that the gift of the candy bar was conditional i.e., it was a true bribe. >To make matters worse, most 12 year-olds do not recognize the real value of their vote. Many would willingly accept the short-term gratification of a candy bar and suffer the long-term consequences of selecting the wrong candidate.

>>When problems arise you will find more success by stepping toward the recommended scouting methods not by stepping further away.

>>I could start with 'bribery', Barry.

>>Well, you've recognized that the fault(s) lie in more than one place. But these are just kids we're dealing with here, and they're subject to that kind of thing. That's why we do what we do as leaders to help instill values that might eliminate the need to discuss these things with them as they grow.

>>The quiet, polite, non-assuming boys get advanced quickly with no regard to actual leadership. One quiet 12 yr old boy used his position of Troop Bugler to advance to Life, even though he never bugled at anything! The more rambunctious, out-going, in the middle of everything boys are told they have to wait.

Hi Mainescouter I would love to visit Maine. >>Your statement about leadership maturity not being a limitation toward rank and advancement... what is that based on?

Good day all >>The BSA believes that leadership is a learned skill and not a residual characteristic of maturity.> Also how would you objectively measure maturity and make it an equal measurement throughout a national program? The best measurement of maturity in a scout is scout spirit, his ability to live by the values of the Oath and Law.

>>What ever medication you are taking it's either not enough or way too much. Absurd comments like that do nothing to further the discussion or to develop a better understanding of the scouting methods.

Good morning MaineScouter Isn't this forum a great place to camp or what? I guess I will be the devil in the discussion though. I hate that! But while what you describe first comes of as Egos out of control, I get more of the feeling that your troop is being run with good intension guided by ignorance. Ignorance is a lot easier to change than the self-serving desire to be Caesar. It's true that the relationship between the CC, SM and Council President is wrong, not to mention just plain dangerous for all. But, this just might be a scouting family with the passion of Baden Powell looking to do the best job they can. And actually for me you paint a SM with a good heart, just bad practices. I get the feeling his goals a noble, but he lacks the skills. For example, you say he is frustrated with scouts meeting requirements to fast. Just about every SM I know goes through this phase of scout mastering because you have to test the limits to know where they are. It feels to me like your scoutmaster just needs more coaching and training. I guess I am a glass half full kind of guy, but I've worked with a lot of well-intentioned adults with wonderful hearts and terrible technique. They just need a little guidance. As for you, you are getting a lot of good advice here and ammunition to come out looking like the white knight. But in reality if you come in too strong and start pushing your female weight around the good ole boys.. Well maybe you can see what Im getting to. Oh, by the way, watch out throwing out that Good Old Boy phrase, because that puts you in a them against me place that you will never change. How about seeking to be one of boys and teaching them how WE can be part of a Great team. What your troop needs right now is information and training. It needs facts to push out the myths and old bad habits. Start researching and learning. Find the BSA documents that explain the policies and procedures of running a troop. Go to training and if the adults seem to resist that for some reason, bring the trainers to the troop. Find and hour here and there to get expert help on BORs or committee policies. Suggest finding another troop that can help coach your SM, and suggest scouting forums as a source to ask for help. Have patience and pick your battles because in reality these folks need to be your friends. Like working with scouts, I would rather assume these folks to be good, just misguided. Once you get the boulder rolling, momentum will do the rest. Be deliberate in your assistance to the troop, but have patience because you will first be seen as just a woman without much experience. It will take time to build a trust that you arent so much an ambitious adult using the troop to feel powerful. But instead a humble servant looking to build a program for everyones sons, Get the BSA resources, read them and ask us questions. Find a local friend that can help your unit. Be bold and make your case. Be humble and let facts push out ignorance. Give your adults benefit of doubt. I hope I havent come on too strong. You have received a lot of great advice in the last couple of days. This is a great campfire. Scouting is the best program going when it works. My years of scouting experience have taught me that when we adults try too hard, the boys will see scouting is great place to be until the adults get involved. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Found this in a history of BSA ranks. ((1911 Eagle Requirements The BSA adds three higher ranks for earning merit badges beyond First Class: Life, Star, and Eagle (Star was switched before Life in 1924, apparently because the five points of the Star could symbolize the five merit badges required for the rank))). Hope this helps. Strange question to hold up a scout though. That is one tough troop. Barry

The last thing I tell my students at SM Specific is I don't think we are standing in this particular place at this moment by accident. We have purpose and we've been queued in a direction to make a difference. Your courage has that purpose and who knows how many of us are better from it? Who knows how many of our sons will be become better men from it? Thanks dsteel. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>It's nice to have old timers tell you their opinion (especially when it agrees with yours).

>>It's a valuable undertaking for those who teach and guide. It can insure that the means and methods we use are, indeed, getting the message through to the boys.

>>Just letting them plan it has gotten the last three trips cancelled.